Working/Holiday Visa to Oz-Suitable if looking for Graduate Work?

MilkTheGroup

Ive noticed there's alot of graduates heading over to Oz on a work/holiday visa at the moment. I was wondering if people knew many using that particular visa who had gotten graduate work since arriving ?

ive heard of young irish people who have degrees and postgrads heading over there but they're working in retail, bars etc. over there. is this cos they only want casual work and to travel? or is it cos they can't get graduate work over there?

While I want to have a good time I mainly want to go over so I can use my law degree and masters (cos i spent 5 yrs at it!!) and get experience working in a law firm. is this realistic? id imagine id need to get my qualifications accredited by some body for them to be recognised by australian employers?

Skittlebrau

My first two jobs when I arrived here on a WHV back in 2007 were paralegal jobs, so I imagine you should be able to find work in a law firm.

Not exactly sure what you mean about graduate work though... Paralegal will be about the extent of what you can do in a law firm without being qualified over here.

hussey

MilkTheGroup wrote: »

Ive noticed there's alot of graduates heading over to Oz on a work/holiday visa at the moment. I was wondering if people knew many using that particular visa who had gotten graduate work since arriving ?

ive heard of young irish people who have degrees and postgrads heading over there but they're working in retail, bars etc. over there. is this cos they only want casual work and to travel? or is it cos they can't get graduate work over there?

While I want to have a good time I mainly want to go over so I can use my law degree and masters (cos i spent 5 yrs at it!!) and get experience working in a law firm. is this realistic? id imagine id need to get my qualifications accredited by some body for them to be recognised by australian employers?

Graduate work is very hard to get, well cause you can only work for 6months, you may get temporary work.

Grads need training and take a while to be productive, if you can only work 6months, no one would hire them. Also you can't really sponsor them, as they probably wouldn't fit in the 457 experience/money/skills required.

You can come over on a WHV and try your luck with law, but will be tough, or you can try applying for grad programs from ireland - again tough.

MilkTheGroup

yes thats exactly the type of work i was talking about! thanks for that at least i know it can be done now! did you find it hard to get legal work given the 6 month rule about each employer? were you able to get sponsored?

MilkTheGroup

thanks for all that information it was very helpful. yes i can see how the 6 month limitation would put off employers alot. i understand now why i don't hear of Irish graduates getting graduate employment over there.

i looked up that 457 list on it too ive found some occupations listed on it which I could come under ;Administrative Lawyer, Judicial and Other Legal Professionals (Not Elsewhere Classified), Law Researcher, Legal Officer.

'other legal professionals' sounds very broad! Perhaps a law firm could sponsor me under that? id imagine id apply for roles like law clerk, legal executive, paralegal, legal assistant. i must contact the Registered Migration Agent on that website. i think they can advise me.

hussey

MilkTheGroup wrote: »

thanks for all that information it was very helpful. yes i can see how the 6 month limitation would put off employers alot. i understand now why i don't hear of Irish graduates getting graduate employment over there.

i looked up that 457 list on it too ive found some occupations listed on it which I could come under ;Administrative Lawyer, Judicial and Other Legal Professionals (Not Elsewhere Classified), Law Researcher, Legal Officer.

'other legal professionals' sounds very broad! Perhaps a law firm could sponsor me under that? id imagine id apply for roles like law clerk, legal executive, paralegal, legal assistant. i must contact the Registered Migration Agent on that website. i think they can advise me.

You'll find it very hard to get sponsored as a grad, not saying impossible, but very hard. As they have to prove an australian cannot do the job

Paige Turner

I returned to Australia in Feb, with a law degree from Ireland. I have been trying to get any type of legal work; paralegal, legal sec, legal pa, but have found it really difficult. I'm an Australian citizen too, so am not tied down by the 6 month rule. The biggest hurdle I have found is that nearly all employers are looking for people with between 1 - 5 years experience. Even for junior positions most are expecting 1 year experience. If you have this, you may find it easier, as there is quite a lot of legal temp work (in Melbourne anyway.) Trainee positions are easier to get, but you have to be able to commit to 18 months for most of these.

I don't know where you are planning on staying in OZ, but there are many job agencies that specialise in legal recruitment. If you need any help with these in Melbourne, I can pm you details.

Seek is a good place to look for legal jobs, here are some examples of legal positions in Melbourne:

http://www.seek.com.au/JobSearch?DateRange=31&Keywords=&location=1002&industry=1216&occupation=1431&area=5069&IsAreaUnspecified=True&SearchFrom=quickupper&SearchType=search+again

If you do manage to get sponsored, you could look down the route of qualifying here as a solicitor/ barrister. To do this you need to get you degree recognised but an Australian uni. This will usually take a couple of months. They will then tell you what subjects you will need to complete to have your degree recognised here. Usually between 3 - 6 subjects. After these are completed you will then be entitled to undertake further study to qualify. The process here is a little bit different to Ireland, but not hugely. If you need any further info on this, I can happily pm you.

Would you consider working in a bank, these positions seem to come up quite a bit, and it is possible you could work your way to their legal sector?

amybabes

Hi Op.

I got to Australia in June 2009 just after finishing my final exams.
I'm not going to lie to you. Job prospects on a WHV in any field are not great. You'll even see some bar and retail jobs specifying WHV holders need not reply.
Saying that I got a job in a call centre and was made national sales and marketing manager within 6 months and they actually found a way around the 6 month rule (paid me through their other company after 6 months while i worked for both divisions).
I am now on a defacto 457 sponsorship visa since last July, went straight from my first year WHV onto this, and I'm in the middle of applying for my residency even though I have 3 full years left on my current 457 visa.

The reason why? Even having a 457 visa is not ideal when looking for a serious career type job in my experience. I never came to Australia to be a backpacker and go with the flow, I came here to work and make a life so it has been a struggle definitely. I myself have been temping now with 11 months since I left my last permanent job and am looking for the right permanent marketing role.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but realistically and from my personal experience being here the last two years, it is getting harder and harder to get jobs while not an Australian resident.

But for me, even working in jobs that may not be your dream job was better than staying at home with NO job prospects and having a big gap on your cv. At least if you are working here then you will have work experience on your cv. And temping has been well paid and very beneficial in my case - I work currently for Thrifty Car Hire in a high up position in their Australian and New Zealand Head Office, and previously for HSBC's Australian Head Quarter directly for the CEO. Nothing to scoff at really - in both cases I now have 2 global organisations on my cv and while both positions are not directly in marketing, I have had access to the marketing departements and met alot of contacts. That's the way I look at it.

MilkTheGroup

amybabes wrote: »

Hi Op.


But for me, even working in jobs that may not be your dream job was better than staying at home with NO job prospects and having a big gap on your cv. At least if you are working here then you will have work experience on your cv. And temping has been well paid and very beneficial in my case - I work currently for Thrifty Car Hire in a high up position in their Australian and New Zealand Head Office, and previously for HSBC's Australian Head Quarter directly for the CEO. Nothing to scoff at really - in both cases I now have 2 global organisations on my cv and while both positions are not directly in marketing, I have had access to the marketing departements and met alot of contacts. That's the way I look at it.

Yes I think you're absolutely right. It would be far more beneficial for me to have some kind of work in australia than to have a gap on my cv. i already have a 5 month gap which is only going to lengthen! Obviously work in a law firm would be my first choice but I realise now that I can't be fussy and need to be open-minded. it sounds like you are definitely gaining valuable work experience, it mightn't be ideal for what you really want to do but is certainly worth doing! thanks for that.

MilkTheGroup

Paige Turner wrote: »

I returned to Australia in Feb, with a law degree from Ireland. I have been trying to get any type of legal work; paralegal, legal sec, legal pa, but have found it really difficult. I'm an Australian citizen too, so am not tied down by the 6 month rule. The biggest hurdle I have found is that nearly all employers are looking for people with between 1 - 5 years experience. Even for junior positions most are expecting 1 year experience. If you have this, you may find it easier, as there is quite a lot of legal temp work (in Melbourne anyway.) Trainee positions are easier to get, but you have to be able to commit to 18 months for most of these.

I don't know where you are planning on staying in OZ, but there are many job agencies that specialise in legal recruitment. If you need any help with these in Melbourne, I can pm you details.

Would you consider working in a bank, these positions seem to come up quite a bit, and it is possible you could work your way to their legal sector?

Yes I have some work experience in a law firm but nothing close to 1 year. I do however know a solicitor who may allow me to spend this summer working for him for free just to gain experience before i fly over so that could be good for a reference and to show that i have some experience.

I would definitely be open to working in a bank or any role that gave me access to a legal department, any office or administration work basically because it would be all be someway similar to the day to day work in a firm. I'll probably initially try to find any administration job i can find and then while there keep applying for paralegal work.

I'm actually planning on staying in Melbourne!!! I would be very grateful if you would pm those details of recruitment agencies that specialise in legal recruitment. thank you so much!

linola_c

Hi OP,

I am also in a similar situation. I arrived here in January and finished college last June. The WHV is a huge turn off for employers, when I came here first I was getting interviews for jobs and then they would ask for my visa details and cancel the interview!! My bf and I are saving the money to apply for the 457/175 and as soon as we have that I am hoping things will improve. You will not get a place on a graduate programme on a temp visa and I have never heard of anyone been sponsored by a law firm here as a graduate. The truth of it being that there are many unemployed Australian law graduates!!

Paralegal work is very difficult to get now, not just here but at home and in London also. A couple of years ago, you didn't need any qualifications to be a paralegal but here a lot of them do not have law degrees and it is basically experience based!

I am working in Insurance Claims and I am liking it but i can only hope that when we get the better visas i will stand a better chance!!!

Paige Turner

MilkTheGroup wrote: »

Yes I have some work experience in a law firm but nothing close to 1 year. I do however know a solicitor who may allow me to spend this summer working for him for free just to gain experience before i fly over so that could be good for a reference and to show that i have some experience.

I would definitely be open to working in a bank or any role that gave me access to a legal department, any office or administration work basically because it would be all be someway similar to the day to day work in a firm. I'll probably initially try to find any administration job i can find and then while there keep applying for paralegal work.

I'm actually planning on staying in Melbourne!!! I would be very grateful if you would pm those details of recruitment agencies that specialise in legal recruitment. thank you so much!

Pm Sent!

NewsMeQuick

linola_c wrote: »

Hi OP,

I am also in a similar situation. I arrived here in January and finished college last June. The WHV is a huge turn off for employers, when I came here first I was getting interviews for jobs and then they would ask for my visa details and cancel the interview!! My bf and I are saving the money to apply for the 457/175 and as soon as we have that I am hoping things will improve. You will not get a place on a graduate programme on a temp visa and I have never heard of anyone been sponsored by a law firm here as a graduate. The truth of it being that there are many unemployed Australian law graduates!!

Paralegal work is very difficult to get now, not just here but at home and in London also. A couple of years ago, you didn't need any qualifications to be a paralegal but here a lot of them do not have law degrees and it is basically experience based!

I am working in Insurance Claims and I am liking it but i can only hope that when we get the better visas i will stand a better chance!!!

Thanks to everyone in this thread, this really seems to be filled with practical, realistic 'on-the-ground' knowledge. There are many thread here full of people aiming to get sponsored after a few months work on a WHV and getting on the 457. It's interesting and important to read here that it's getting harder to do that and that many Australian graduates are unemployed. Admittedly, some people seem to have overcome the 6 month problem with sponsorship, but it's good to get both sides of the argument.

One such thread is here. Firstly, I prefer experience from graduates or those that know graduates. There are many well-intentioned voices which are giving the bleakest of advice conceivable (think Mordor, Auschwitz, Voldemort and Fire Nation-type doom :eek:) and they aren't familiar with the situation. Graduates seem to be saying, in summation, that it's tough without relevant experience Next, the bottom line seems to be that getting any kind of work experience before you go helps your chances a lot, or you will very likely have to try retail or bar work. If you do have work experience before you go, your chances of getting work in your desired area with an agreeable salary is much better. That's as far as I understand from graduates/close to graduates on the ground in Australia.

Any more input would be welcome. I'm a fresh graduate trying hard to get any experience before I go, and I'm still open to Australia or Canada.

Legend100

Yo do know this thread is two years old right??

Things have changed drastically here since then and will be much worse come 1st July

trippyfella

Worse how?

Legend100

worse as in much harder to get sponsored especially for a grad with little or no experience

markymark21

trippyfella wrote: »

Worse how?

It is going to be harder to get sponsored after July 1st. There is uproar apparently about us internationals getting sponsored and taking all the jobs instead of your Aussie candidate getting the job. The rules will make it unattractive for an Aussie employer to sponsor. I believe they will increase the training requirements as well as the minimum wage the sponsored individual must receive.

Although I completely agree that the abuse of the system should be wiped out (such as making 457 holders work crazy hours for minimum wage) I'm all for employers being able to employ the best man for the job. If that's a foreigner, so what? They still pay tax and what not.

It isn't good news for the hospitality industry that's for sure. In Melbourne you'd be lucky to see more then one Australian working in a commercial kitchen. Although much of the time It will be the head chef, he'd be the first to tell you Australians ain't keen on working as a line cooks.

danotroy

markymark21 wrote: »

.
In Melbourne you'd be lucky to see more then one Australian working in a commercial kitchen. Although much of the time It will be the head chef, he'd be the first to tell you Australians ain't keen on working as a line cooks.

Is this not the case the world over? Having worked in hotels, restaurants and bars in the USA, The Uk Ireland and Australia kitchen staff generally never tend to be Locals. In the USA they were generally Mexicans in Ireland and England most polish/eastern block and here in Australia they tent to be Indian/Indoneasian/Asian.

Although many of the local Djs I come in contact with at work, most of them are line chefs. Balances well with their DJ hobby.

mandrake04

markymark21 wrote: »

It is going to be harder to get sponsored after July 1st. There is uproar apparently about us internationals getting sponsored and taking all the jobs instead of your Aussie candidate getting the job. The rules will make it unattractive for an Aussie employer to sponsor. I believe they will increase the training requirements as well as the minimum wage the sponsored individual must receive.

Although I completely agree that the abuse of the system should be wiped out (such as making 457 holders work crazy hours for minimum wage) I'm all for employers being able to employ the best man for the job. If that's a foreigner, so what? They still pay tax and what not.

It isn't good news for the hospitality industry that's for sure. In Melbourne you'd be lucky to see more then one Australian working in a commercial kitchen. Although much of the time It will be the head chef, he'd be the first to tell you Australians ain't keen on working as a line cooks.

Is it also possible that the immigrants/foreigners are also 'locals' with permanent status/citizenship? there are plenty of foreign born relatives and dependents of skilled migrants who are not skilled themselves and only able to work in such jobs. Just because they don't have a white face and an ocker accent doesn't mean they are not Australian and don't have the vote. :rolleyes:

Hospitality is definitely one of the main sectors being targeted.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-books-are-being-cooked-on-457-visas-20130318-2gb0s.html

NewsMeQuick

Bloomberg report on the Australian unemployment rate, if anyone's interested:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/australia-s-unemployment-rate-unexpectedly-rises-to-3-year-high.html

danotroy

mandrake04 wrote: »

Is it also possible that the immigrants/foreigners are also 'locals' with permanent status/citizenship? there are plenty of foreign born relatives and dependents of skilled migrants who are not skilled themselves and only able to work in such jobs. Just because they don't have a white face and an ocker accent doesn't mean they are not Australian and don't have the vote. :rolleyes:

Hospitality is definitely one of the main sectors being targeted.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-books-are-being-cooked-on-457-visas-20130318-2gb0s.html

I think my post would reiterate your point mandrake most of the kitchen workers i know are not of white skin but do have a more substantial visa than i do.

snaqe

I can only speak for civil engineering. It is tough to get a graduate position here in oz but it is doable. I began work in Australia with a labour hire company and through extensive networking with engineers and supervisors I got hired as a civil engineering graduate. This lead to me getting a 3 month trial period and then getting hired on a full time contract with 457 sponsorship. If you cannot get your ideal postion straight away just try find employment within that general field anyway. You should be able to prove yourself from there and hopefully advance into the direction you are looking for. Every company is looking for hard workers and imo alot of the Irish out here seem to excel over their ozzy counterpart..this is probably down to immigration circumstances and our need to suceed.

Another issue which may prove to be an obstacle to Irish with little experience is the tightening of the 457visa. Basically it is not changing much from whats there now. Its more like they are aiming to implement it better. Therefore companies will have to prove they tried to hire ozzies before hiring on a 457. I'm not sure how it works if the foreign candidate is obviously superior to the ozzy.

token101

hussey wrote: »

You'll find it very hard to get sponsored as a grad, not saying impossible, but very hard. As they have to prove an australian cannot do the job

I don't work in the legal profession but from my, and friends', experiences getting sponsored here in professional jobs (outside of recruitment/sales) is very, very difficult. It's usually down to companies needing someone desperately and urgently and you proving you're worth the outlay of a visa. I've two years experience and I only got in through pure luck in my job and even if I wanted it, it's unlikely I'd be sponsored to stay on. I work in marketing but I've a buddy with a Law degree from the UK who can't get anything, been trying since last September can't even get temp work so he's stuck in a call centre. I would strongly advise anyone thinking of coming here on a WHV and hoping for sponsorship to think again. Because you'll get responses to applications and when they hear WHV, it's a killer and that makes it all the more frustrating and heartbreaking.

mandrake04

snaqe wrote: »

Basically it is not changing much from whats there now. Its more like they are aiming to implement it better. Therefore companies will have to prove they tried to hire ozzies before hiring on a 457. I'm not sure how it works if the foreign candidate is obviously superior to the ozzy.

Ah the old 'proof of no local can be found' myth..... already busted. Also due to international trade obligations it wont be in the case in foreseeable future.

EMPLOYERS will not be forced to check if locals are available to fill jobs before they import foreigners, under the federal crackdown on temporary skilled visas.

The office of Immigration Minister Brendan O'Connor has confirmed that Australia has international trade obligations that forbid mandatory testing of the local labour market by employers seeking to bring in people on 457 visas.

About 10,000 457 visas were issued for Victoria in the first eight months of 2012-13.

The top occupation was cook, with 670 visas granted, followed by developer/programmer (380) and university lecturer (290), according to the latest Immigration Department data.

Other top 457 jobs were GP (260), management consultant (230), marketing specialist (220), chef (210) and cafe/restaurant manager (200).

An education industry figure, who asked not to be identified, said the 457 system was being widely exploited to lure people to Australia with the promise of eventual permanent residency.


"Businesses are being set up to sponsor people on 457 visas, with some applicants paying as much as $75,000 to employers," he said. "In many instances, the nominee does not work for the employer at all.

"Restaurants are being set up to bring large numbers of foreign workers on 457 visas, and fake automotive garages and farming enterprises are being created for smuggling of people into Australia through employer sponsorship nominations."

An Immigration Department publication said job market testing would contravene international trade deals.

The Gillard Government has brought in other measures to deal with 457 rorts such as a "genuineness" test for employer nominations and improved regulatory powers for the department to ensure that the working conditions of sponsored employees meet Australian standards.

Instead they are bringing in a whole range of new measures.

• Testing that the employer business and nominating position is genuine
• Limiting the number of 457 an employer can actually sponsor
• Upping the salary thresholds
• Tightening the definitions of eligible positions
• Making business sponsors declare that they will commit to employing Australian citizens
• Making training Australian citizens an enforceable requirement of 457 applications
• Strengthening the designated salary rate for the visas “to stop undercutting of local conditions”

Simply the employer will be forced to pay the market value to 457 visa holder plus the additional 1 or 2 % of the business payroll to be paid towards training of Australian workers, it will be far cheaper to employ locals unless they don't have the skills then the employer will just have to pay through the nose anyway.

Also the it seems the Australian Tax office is now offering personal pay and tax information of 457 visa holders to DIAC in a bid to crack down on on those committing visa fraud by not working for their nominating sponsors and employers who are paying below the thresholds this data will go back to 2011. They are also looking at other temporary visa including student visas as they believe these are being used in non-compliance or work rights.