Am i overereacting?

LegacyUser

I'm dating a guy (farmer) who is living in a remote area of the country. I'm in Dublin. As he is a farmer we have to spend 99% of our time together at his. He comes up for maybe one dinner a month to Dublin. As such i'm spending a large amount of time away from my own social network and trying to make a new one. He obviously knows everyone there so they are all already 'his' friends.

I've been finding it hard to make friends down there as we don't go out much. We were at an occassion this weekend and i did my best to get talking to as many people as possible and join in on the craic. I got on well with people and was really pleased i was starting to make friends. My bf and i had an argument last night about cleaning. When i started going down we made a deal that if i cook then he cleans up after and vice versa. As he can't cook it has always been that i'm cooking and he does the dishes. Now all of a sudden he's furious at me for leaving dishes for him to do and says its rude and disrespectful to his home to do this.

So fast forward to he was at his friends, a couple who i had gotten on well with and told them that i refuse to clean. He got in touch to tell me that he had told them and that they're all disgusted that a woman won't clean, and if i continue not cleaning they have advised him to dump me.

He seems pretty smug with this, i guess he feels that he's getting his own way but i'm really hurt by it. I'm hurt that he has jeopardised new friendships for me that were hard to make. I'm hurt that he thinks i should just spend all my free time cleaning up, after all i've cooked so haven't i done my part? And i'm hurt that he has given this awful exaggerated impression of me that i know will have spread like wildfire by the time i'm down there next.

I'm not too sure what to do now, because i know to him he thinks its funny (that old banter chestnut again, anything for a laugh!) and he's happy that people are seeing him as the poor victim. Its a very traditional farming community where even now the women do all the housework and i know it would be a huge huge scandal that a woman isn't killing herself cleaning for her man there. All his family are in the community and will now think of me as some sort of filthy pig.

I just feel so let down. I'm not sure how to work passed it as the damage will already have been done. I can probaly sort out the cleaning issue with my oh, but not the damage this has done. Where do i go?

seamus

You're fighting deep-set traditions and attitudes on this one.

There's still a very prevalent attitude among farmers and farming communities that running a farm is a two-part business of running the farm and running the household. A the man runs the farm while his wife stays home all day running the household.
This seems like a relatively fair trade in all regards, if both parties are happy for life to work this way.

Sharing household duties is more common in other types of household because both people work all day, therefore it only seems right that the housework is split equally.

Two-income families aren't as common in farming households as they would be elsewhere; the farm is seen as the be-all and end-all. Life is about running the farm. Consider most of the people you've met who are his friends. Of the farmers, how many of their wives/girlfriends work? The only exceptions to this are usually when the wife also works at the farming duties, it's more "acceptable" for household duties to be equally shared.

I think this is a "change or leave" scenario for you. He has grown up all his life in this farming attitude. This is what his friends & family think is the right way for life to be, and any scenario where you change this will reflect badly on him (and you) in the local community.
Now, he could be a trailblazer and decide that he doesn't care what anyone else thinks. But he's clearly not.

You also have to consider that the farm is his life. If your relationship is to have a future (read: marriage and children), there will be no compromise on his side. You will be expected to move into his place, away from your family and friends, and be the farmer's wife.

You would want to be an extremely strong-willed and thick-skinned woman to push on with this relationship and continue to do what you want to do vis-a-vis working and sharing household duties.

LegacyUser

I'd drop him so fast that his head would spin! How dare he do that? He reneged on a deal ye had re cooking/cleaning - then belittled you about it to people you trying to befriend?! Does he have any appreciation of the effort that you are making in terms of sacrificing your social life and almost always seeing him on his terms? He sounds very old school, and most definitely not be for me. I think you should consider how much of this 'the little woman' carry on you could put up with in the future!

S23

I'd just like to echo the sentiments above. Chances are you're fighting a 'traditional' way of living that is deeply embedded in the psyche of these people.

The fact he's been going around bitching about you not cleaning plates, the fact that these women apparently think it's digusting that a woman won't clean and the fact he's so ****ing smug about the whole thing should set a few alarm bells ringing surely.

You won't change a community and a set way of life. You can't/won't/shouldn't ever attempt to change a person.

So you need to ask yourself are you willing to change. And I mean change rather than compromise becaus it'll all be one way more likely than not. And, for the record, I don't think you should have to change (rather than compromise thats the key here) for this person.

If you're happy to go live in the 1950's then the relationship has somewhere to go. If you're not going to be railroaded into doing all the domestic duties cooking/cleaning/ironing etc... purely because 'you're the woman so thats your job' then you might want to walk away from this one before it gets any more serious and harder to leave

Distorted

I agree with the above posters. I also think he is trying to condition you for the way things are where he lives. It depends whether you want that sort of life or not. I mean, would the benefits outweight the disadvantages to you? (I always remember a couple of farmer's wives who said to me "Never marry a farmer", the only ones I know who have good lives are the wives of "gentlemen farmers" and even they seem to do most of the admin and business side of it as well as all the cooking and cleaning and organising the family).

On top of all that (traditional ways of life), I'd be worried because he sounds unkind. Yes he comes across as controlling, manipulative, fishwifey, etc, but not to complicate it, he sounds a bit unkind. You might want to think about this aspect of his character a bit more.

LegacyUser

The main issue i was trying to get help on is this particular instance. Not the entire relationship, but i understand those points and thank you for the contributions.

As i said we are dating, i'm working and at college at home. We are not married and i do not live there. I visit for one or maybe two nights a week. He came to me with this one does cooking one does cleaning dishes compromise. This is only about dishes, not about the entire house cleaning duties. Although i feel while i would of course clean up after myself, his house is his house. I spend enough time cleaning my own home without taking on responsibility for someone elses!!!! If it was our shared home it would be a different situation.

As i said in the op he has told his friends that i refuse to clean. The actual truth is that i clean up after myself when i'm there and this is only about dishes after dinners. So two plates, glasses, saucepan maybe and some cutlery. To me i feel he has given a far worse impression to his friends then what is actually going on and i feel its massively unfair of him to have done so.

Its not just the women, its his male and female friend who are a couple that have told him to dump me if 'i continue to refuse to clean'. By his own admission these particular people are the biggest gossips around and i'm sure this new reputation will be all there is of peoples knowledge of me by my next visit.

As i said before i'm very hurt that instead of sorting this out to me, he has gone complaining to his friends, knowing they will talk to others. That he has given an extremely incorrect view of whats actually happened. That he thought nothing of sabotaging a lot of effort on my part to make friends in the locality. I've been visiting for the last 6 months and this weekend was the first time i felt i fitted in and i was really pleased. I just feel so let down and deflated and i've no idea of how to communicate this to him or to get over it or to resolve it

LegacyUser

We aren't married and are not living in the same home.

My issue is not about becoming a farmers wife, we are a long way of that, or about country attitudes or what would be expected of me. My issue is purely what has just happened between my bf and me and how to work it out

seamus

You'll just have to tell him that you don't appreciate him complaining about you to his friends; if he has a problem he should talk to you.

As you are a guest in his house, I would suggest to him that it's his responsibility to look after his guest and do all the cooking and cleaning.

Of course, because you're a reasonable person you'll put in your fair share. The next time he makes such a comment just tell him where to go.

I wouldn't worry too much about his friends. They'll probably continue to be nice to you and if they do say something to you, you can just explain nicely that you're his girlfriend, not his slave, and tell them exactly how little cleaning he does. But you're likely to get responses along the lines of "Ah you're in the country now, girl" or "That may be how it works in the city, but not down here". Like it or not, the root of this is the traditional attitudes.

I do think you're overreacting in terms of how much you're fretting about what his friends think of you. You're going out with him, not his friends.

Pebbles68

overreaction wrote: »

We aren't married and are not living in the same home.

My issue is not about becoming a farmers wife, we are a long way of that, or about country attitudes or what would be expected of me. My issue is purely what has just happened between my bf and me and how to work it out

I think your problem is that he's not thinking the same way as you. He doesn't see that he has done anything wrong. He sees you as the problem and the fact that you insult him in his own home and refuse to clean up. As others have said you are fighting generations of tradition, married or not he sees his role as a farmer and you have a domestic role. Even dating him, they are his rules. Accept it or move on.
Apart from that he decided to take the issue outside the relationship and then use his friends reactions to try and scare/bully you into accepting his way. I know what I'd do. Sorry.

ztoical

overreaction wrote: »

We aren't married and are not living in the same home.

My issue is not about becoming a farmers wife, we are a long way of that, or about country attitudes or what would be expected of me. My issue is purely what has just happened between my bf and me and how to work it out

You might not see it as being an issue about becoming a farmers wife/country attitudes/what would be expected of you but that is the long term issue that is developing here. He has acted like he has a result of his up bringing and the general attitude in his area and there isn't a short term solution to the issue.

IrishEyes19

Hey OP, I think he's totally out of order, but can we stop the generalisation here of rural people. I moved from home quite some time ago, but both sides of my family came from a farming background and I can assure not one couple among my relatives ever had it, that one must do the cooking and the wife must also carry the cleaning and the domestic side too. Given that farming is a lot of work, everyone worked together and did whatever. Not every rural person is stuck back in the 1900's. :rolleyes:

But I think in your case he's very out of order, it would make more sense just to do it together. You're not married, so he has no hold on you anyway, and even if you were, this is still very unacceptable. I also think the distance might be an issue for you also.

S23

+1 to the above. You might not be seeing things in the light that some of us are in respect to your post but that doesn't mean we're off the mark.

The issues we've highlighted for you are very, very real and will develop more and more as things move along. Saying 'ah we're only going out 6 months so marriage is a long way off' doesn't change the attitudes and behaviour of himself and his friends towards you. It's something you really need to take a closer look at.

And, for the record, if your problem really was only about some dirty dishes (and I don't think that's the case for a second but anwyay) then what does the fact that you have to come on boards.ie asking for advice over something as simple as that tell you about the level of commuication in your relationship?

Neyite

To me it sounds like the honeymoon period is over and you are now starting to see the 'real' him.

He agreed to the arrangement in the beginning, and I suspect, as a gesture of 'look how great a catch I am' way of impressing you, but this is not what he is really like. Deep down, he feels the way that the rest of the people he told this to do - that a womans place is cleaning up after her man. He is smug because he thinks you are in the wrong here and the fact that his friends agree with him is validation that he is in fact, right, and wants to put you straight.

To tell other people in this way about this is very telling. Is he going to run to his 'jury' to judge you every time you have differing views?

You need to talk to him about this disrespect he has for you - As you can see from the posts here, it amounts to dealbreaker for a lot of people. I think you should let him know this, and be clear why, like you outlined in your first post, This behaviour is not acceptable. I would not be in a hurry to accomadate seeing him on his home turf either - make him come to see you since you now feel uncomfortable in his local thanks to him. If that means that he does not see you as often, he only has himself to blame.

LegacyUser

oh my God. OP. Drop him. Like a stone. It will never work. He's a throwback.

He's also a manipulative little whinger 'telling on you' to his friends if you don't act like his Mammy. This bodes BADLY for the future. He wants a 1950's housewife.

Run. Like. The. Wind.

S23

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Hey OP, I think he's totally out of order, but can we stop the generalisation here of rural people. I moved from home quite some time ago, but both sides of my family came from a farming background and I can assure not one couple among my relatives ever had it, that one must do the cooking and the wife must also carry the cleaning and the domestic side too. Given that farming is a lot of work, everyone worked together and did whatever. Not every rural person is stuck back in the 1900's. :rolleyes:

But I think in your case he's very out of order, it would make more sense just to do it together. You're not married, so he has no hold on you anyway, and even if you were, this is still very unacceptable. I also think the distance might be an issue for you also.

I agree not all people who live in rural communities share these attitdues. I don't think anyone was suggesting that's the case so lets not get carried away with that.

However, as much as there are plenty of people from a farming background that don't share these values or ideals the fact is that there are plenty that still do.

And the point in this case, I would suggest, is that his behaviour and actions, and that of his friends, is strongly hinting towards the fact that he does. He first refused to do the dishes, then he complained to her about it, then he complained to his friends about it then he got smug with her when he was able to say 'my friends think its digsusting a woman won't clean the dishes.

I won't judge him on some generalisation of what all farmers are like. I'll judge him on his actions. Those were his actions and they point towards a certain way of thinking.

seenitall

OP, like Neyite said, the honeymoon is over, the cracks are starting to show and these cracks are on their way to becoming a huge and all-encompassing chasm between the two of you unless you make all the attitude-readjustments needed to live with someone as sneaky, smug and disrespectful as your b/f sounds to me.

Thinking that this is about two plates and some crockery, or even just some bitching with friends, is pure delusion and wishful thinking on your part; stay in that relationship and see if I'm wrong. I'm sorry.

Best wishes.

I am a friend

It seems that he sees you as a substitute Mammy and is trying to mould you into the type of girl he wants to live with.

He was also highly disrespectful telling his friends stuff like that and even worse telling you about what he had done....

is this the life you want?

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

To me it sounds like the honeymoon period is over and you are now starting to see the 'real' him.

He agreed to the arrangement in the beginning, and I suspect, as a gesture of 'look how great a catch I am' way of impressing you, but this is not what he is really like. Deep down, he feels the way that the rest of the people he told this to do - that a womans place is cleaning up after her man. He is smug because he thinks you are in the wrong here and the fact that his friends agree with him is validation that he is in fact, right, and wants to put you straight.

To tell other people in this way about this is very telling. Is he going to run to his 'jury' to judge you every time you have differing views?

You need to talk to him about this disrespect he has for you - As you can see from the posts here, it amounts to dealbreaker for a lot of people. I think you should let him know this, and be clear why, like you outlined in your first post, This behaviour is not acceptable. I would not be in a hurry to accomadate seeing him on his home turf either - make him come to see you since you now feel uncomfortable in his local thanks to him. If that means that he does not see you as often, he only has himself to blame.

Thanks for this post, it just smacked reality home i guess. He's pretty poor at communicating. Generally when i explain i'm unhappy with someone i see him switching off. I think he goes into 'teenager' mode and sees me as nagging. Well i suppose i have the accept the reality thats in your post and get my head into a place where i won't be in complete devastation if we were to split and then speak to him. I can see from the posts that its an accept this or leave situation. So i had better prepare myself for the leaving.

To the poster that said i was placing too much importance on what his friends thought of me, its a bit more than that. I live in Dublin centre so i don't have a car. Where my bf lives is not within walking distance of anything except fields. The local people are all his friends and my only potential social circle when i'm there. I have the choice to try to befirend these people or not to. If i don't then whenever i am visiting him, i will just be sitting indoors alone while he's on the farm. I would like to have something to do as its my two days off work that i spend with him. It would be nice to have friends to see, and company. But i can't see this happening now i will have the reputation of being filthy and lazy and not 'looking after my man' properly.

Taltos

One other way to look at this OP - him talking to his friends about this and then playing them back off you - well it is a little disrespectful of your relationship in my opinion.

Really does sound like his true colours are starting to show - if he won't change then I think you already know what you have to do here...

shellyboo

You're not overreacting. To go canvass his mates on how good a partner you are,then throw the results back in your face shows that he has not even an ounce of respect for you.

S23

overreaction? wrote: »

It would be nice to have friends to see, and company. But i can't see this happening now i will have the reputation of being filthy and lazy and not 'looking after my man' properly.

This is going to sound so cliched but I assure you it's very, very true in this case. Why on earth would you want to be friends with people who have that attitude towards you anyway?

They are the ones with the problem here. Gossiping behind your back and disrespecting you because you don't adhere to what they consider to be the 'right' way to live.

I completely get what you are saying that you wanted company and to make friends with them. That's all very natural and you did the sociable thing and got along with them. However first chance they had they were disrespecting you by calling you disgusting and also by telling your OH that if you don't shape up then he should dump you. Do you think they sound like a lovely bunch of people? Because these are the people, as you have acknowledged yourself, whose company you'll be stuck in if you continue to see this person

Fentdog84

As someone originally from a rural backround(now living in a town), I can assure you not all people living in the country are like that, but there are a few sticklers..mainly the big shot farmer types. As a self respecting, modern woman you shouldnt even contemplate this lifestyle. It just dosent sound like its going to be for you. Best to walk away I think, he's shown his true colours. To speak to his friends about you the way he did is just a plain lack of respect.

Fentdog84

....From the way it sounded in your post, What this type of man wants is a woman in complete submission to him. In a the traditional revering sort of way. It sounds like his recent actions were testers to see if you are that woman..This whole relationship is and will be on his terms. He will want to control you and to be at his every beck and call. You need to ask yourself if you can handle that.

bronte

If it were me OP, I'd run for the hills.

There are so many things wrong here and you should consider it a blessing that this behaviour is rearing it's ugly head now and not further on in the relationship.
This guy doesn't want a partner, he wants someone who will pander to his every whim. You've effectively altered your entire social life in order to spend time with him and make the effort to fit in around his schedule most of the time.
His sense of entitlement is astounding.

He had absolutely no right to go bitching about you to his friends.
If he has a problem with you he should address it to your face.
To then go and rub their reactions in your face is despicable.
One of (in my opinion) the most important things in a good relationship is loyalty.
These are not the actions of someone who is loyal to you.

Walk away and count yourself lucky.
You honestly deserve better.

LegacyUser

I said earlier today that he'd be history; that was my initial furious reaction - but now I'm thinking one more chance. Just one though. There's flashing amber lights about his attitude/reaction, but to try to be fair to him, maybe this situation is just outside his sphere of experience, and he reacted stupidly. Maybe if he realises how upset you were, he'll think about how he behaved.

I get what you said earlier about the issue not being the entire relationship, or what happens after marriage - but it's a huge indicator of how things would, I think, be in the near and long term future. What drove me mad earlier on was how he seemed to think it was funny, being indignant at how you weren't picking up after him, and making a show of you for it. It really isn't on - but I guess we're all allowed a moment of two of stupidity sometimes! Maybe he reacted in this stupid way because he isn't used to someone like you - which is in no way meant as a bad comment about you!

I think one more chance. If it happens again though, that's not a stupid reaction; that's a reaction to his inability to deal with your expectations of partnership in a rerlationship, and a
big bad flashing red light - unless you are prepared to play the little woman forever. Obviously by my comments, I couldn't deal with that - but if you can, fair enough.

Good luck with whatever you decide - as long as you are truly comfortable with your decision; because this isn't about 1 silly row, it's about a lot more than that.

thecookingapple

Your bf is cunning and is grooming you into a lap dog. this has all to do with the future and very little to do with now. the fact you are even debating this shows he is in control.

johnr1

seamus wrote: »

You're fighting deep-set traditions and attitudes on this one.

There's still a very prevalent attitude among farmers and farming communities that running a farm is a two-part business of running the farm and running the household. A the man runs the farm while his wife stays home all day running the household.
This seems like a relatively fair trade in all regards, if both parties are happy for life to work this way.

Sharing household duties is more common in other types of household because both people work all day, therefore it only seems right that the housework is split equally.

Two-income families aren't as common in farming households as they would be elsewhere; the farm is seen as the be-all and end-all. Life is about running the farm. Consider most of the people you've met who are his friends. Of the farmers, how many of their wives/girlfriends work? The only exceptions to this are usually when the wife also works at the farming duties, it's more "acceptable" for household duties to be equally shared.

I think this is a "change or leave" scenario for you. He has grown up all his life in this farming attitude. This is what his friends & family think is the right way for life to be, and any scenario where you change this will reflect badly on him (and you) in the local community.
Now, he could be a trailblazer and decide that he doesn't care what anyone else thinks. But he's clearly not.

You also have to consider that the farm is his life. If your relationship is to have a future (read: marriage and children), there will be no compromise on his side. You will be expected to move into his place, away from your family and friends, and be the farmer's wife.

You would want to be an extremely strong-willed and thick-skinned woman to push on with this relationship and continue to do what you want to do vis-a-vis working and sharing household duties.

CRRRRAP - of the highest degree! I know more than a hundred farmers of which I think about two dont work outside of the farm, and of those who are married, almost all their wives have off farm jobs.
What you describe Seamus is from about 50 years ago. Update your info, or get some for Ireland 2011 instead of an Amish community.

Now OP, as regards this lad/child-man/whatever, if he has been disloyal enough to tell his friends totally untrue stuff about you, (and it was totally untrue because its doubtful that he mentioned your previous agreement, or the fact that he cant cook anything) then will you expect more loyalty or support at any time in the future ?
Do you want to be with a guy who undermines your hard-won acceptance instead of bolstering it in every way he can.

To everyone else playing the rural/farmer card, being a disloyal Neanderthal A$$hole has nothing got to do with his occupation.

johnr1

S23 wrote: »

This is going to sound so cliched but I assure you it's very, very true in this case. Why on earth would you want to be friends with people who have that attitude towards you anyway?

They are the ones with the problem here. Gossiping behind your back and disrespecting you because you don't adhere to what they consider to be the 'right' way to live.

I completely get what you are saying that you wanted company and to make friends with them. That's all very natural and you did the sociable thing and got along with them. However first chance they had they were disrespecting you by calling you disgusting and also by telling your OH that if you don't shape up then he should dump you. Do you think they sound like a lovely bunch of people? Because these are the people, as you have acknowledged yourself, whose company you'll be stuck in if you continue to see this person

Just to make it easier for you Ive bolded the bits which you didnt read in this thread and just dreamed up in your own head !! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

S23

However first chance they had they were disrespecting you by calling you disgusting and also by telling your OH that if you don't shape up then he should dump you.

johnr1 wrote: »

Just to make it easier for you Ive bolded the bits which you didnt read in this thread and just dreamed up in your own head !! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

overreaction? wrote: »

He got in touch to tell me that he had told them and that they're all disgusted that a woman won't clean, and if i continue not cleaning they have advised him to dump me.

Now I don't want to take this off topic and be unhelpful to the OP but what part of your vague accusation of what I dreamed up 'in my own head' do you not not see refered to in a direct quote?

I see a reference to disgusted and I see a reference to the guy being advised to dump the OP. What part did I dream up there?

I've no idea why you are so defensive but I just thought I'd stand my ground on the valid points I made in the face of your roll eyed emoticon rebuttal as I think the OP is at a real crossroads and confusing the issue (and you are clearly confused) won't help her at all.

Maple

johnr1, if you have a problem with a post please report it.

Going forward please address all reports to the OP and keep the advice constructive.

Maple