A new SFC

bm1993

I think we'd all agree the current system isn't great. Here's an idea to improve it. Play the provincial championships as usual but only play up to round 2 of the qualifiers. Put the 8 winners of that against the winners and runners up of the provincials with the winners getting home advantage against the 4 weakest qualifiers based on league position. Any thoughts?

johnmcdnl

isn't that virtually the same as what we have now... a few little differences but not a whole lot...

Mike...

I like the idea, but I can't see it floating....Less ticket revenue for the GAA...

bm1993

With this system it would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage to win your province

premierstone

bm1993 wrote: »

With this system it would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage to win your province

But like the current system its flawed in that in theory its based on the premise that all provinces are equal which is far from the truth.

jordainius

bm1993 wrote: »

I think we'd all agree the current system isn't great.

I for one don't agree.

Format is fine. Lose one game in your provincial championship, you're out. Lose one game in the All-Ireland series including qualifiers, you're out.

Only problem at present; scheduling. All provincial finals need to be held the same weekend or no more than one weekend apart. Same goes for provincial semi finals. And quarter finals and so on.

bm1993 wrote: »

With this system it would be an advantage rather than a disadvantage to win your province

It's not a disadvantage to win a provincial championship.

Fr Tod Umptious

premierstone wrote: »

But like the current system its flawed in that in theory its based on the premise that all provinces are equal which is far from the truth.

Spot on

Right now you could argue that Connaught is the most competitive province but also the weakest.

I like the current back door system, it's not perfect, but if it is to be replaced the provincial championship has to be totality over hauled as part of the new system.

J Cheever Loophole

Your suggestion has one flaw - it retains the Provincial Championships. You can come up with any amount of suggestions you want, but the Provincial Championships are what makes the overall competition unfair.

Don't get me wrong, as an Ulster man, I love what often passes for football in our neighbourly disputes, and I love the competitions themselves, but the reality is that the only way to have a fair and open All Ireland series is to ditch them.

I realise this is a step too far for the GAA, particularly given the strength of the respective Provincial Councils. Turkeys will not vote for Christmas!

jordainius

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Your suggestion has one flaw - it retains the Provincial Championships. You can come up with any amount of suggestions you want, but the Provincial Championships are what makes the overall competition unfair.

Don't get me wrong, as an Ulster man, I love what often passes for football in our neighbourly disputes, and I love the competitions themselves, but the reality is that the only way to have a fair and open All Ireland series is to ditch them.

I realise this is a step too far for the GAA, particularly given the strength of the respective Provincial Councils. Turkeys will not vote for Christmas!

Disagree. As a Limerick man, I know that in barring a miracle I won't see Limerick win an All-Ireland football title in my lifetime. But I believe I will see my county win a Munster title, we've come close a few times in the last decade, and if it ever happens I will be absolutely over the moon.

Get rid of the Munster championship, you get rid of my county's only realistic chance of silverware.

Every year, there are about 5 counties with a realistic chance of winning the All-Ireland, and there are probably about 16 with realistic chances of winning a provincial championship.


In my opinion, its not a case of getting rid of the provinces, its a case of changing the boundaries- we have that lovely number of 32 counties which allows us 4 divisional championships of 8 teams.

Add Clare, Longford and Donegal to Connacht for the West division.
Add Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford to Munster for the South division.
And the remaining 8 teams in Leinster and Ulster form the North and East divisions.

J Cheever Loophole

I understand the point you make, and it is of course valid. However, given the opportunity of a second chance, provided by the back door, for many counties, losing in the province is not the crushing blow it once was - for many of them, the value of a provincial title has been diminished.

Even with the fact that you have a realisitc chance of silverware with the provinces in place, that does not take away from the fact that their existence does though make the overall competition inherently unfair.

jordainius wrote: »

In my opinion, its not a case of getting rid of the provinces, its a case of changing the boundaries- we have that lovely number of 32 counties which allows us 4 divisional championships of 8 teams.

Add Clare, Longford and Donegal to Connacht for the West division.
Add Carlow, Kilkenny and Wexford to Munster for the South division.
And the remaining 8 teams in Leinster and Ulster form the North and East divisions.

But does your suggestion not in effect get rid of what we know as the Provincial Championships? I'm not sure what value a Donegal man would place on winning a 'Western Championship'?

If you're proposing that, why not go the whole hog and make radical changes - you can still have four groups of eight (or preferably eight of four), possibly on seeded lines?

My personal preference would be for eight groups of four, divided between an All Ireland 'A' and All Ireland 'B' - 16 teams in each, with promotion and relegation between the two halves. That would give the so called weaker counties ambitions of silverware.

hisholinessnb

bm1993 wrote: »

I think we'd all agree the current system isn't great.

I love this little throwaway remark right at the start.

Nice little assumption to make there :rolleyes:

bm1993

If you get rid of the provincial championships then about 25 of the teams have nothing to play for. Even though the system is flawed it's great for the likes of Roscommon Louth and Limerick who could win their province but not the All Ireland. Secondly it is a disadvantage to win your province because your sitting idle for 5 or 6 weeks while other teams play tough qualifiers. Witness the 4 provincial winners being beaten in the q finals last year. And is it any coincidence that Dublin challenged for Sam last year after going through the qualifiers having been hammered in the q finals after winning Leinster in the previous few years.:rolleyes:

hisholinessnb

bm1993 wrote: »

Witness the 4 provincial winners being beaten in the q finals last year. And is it any coincidence that Dublin challenged for Sam last year after going through the qualifiers having been hammered in the q finals after winning Leinster in the previous few years.:rolleyes:

I'm not saying for sure the qualifiers don't help, but you can't use a one time ever event like the four provincial finalists losing the 1/4 final as proof its a disadvantage to win your province.
If this happened regulary then maybe.

Regarding the Dublin team, the reason they made the semi final was due to a fresh new team using totally different tactics than before. Not neccesarily just because they had the back door games. Also you failed to mention that they got no further last year than their 3 previous semi final appearances, all which they made by winning Leinster.

bm1993

The last 4 All Irelands have been won by a team coming through the qualifiers for a start. The fact that Cork didn't win munster last year helped them hugely in making the breakthrough. And the fact that Kerry won munster was a factor in them getting caught out by Down likewise Tyrone with Dublin.

Pete_Cavan

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I'm not sure what value a Donegal man would place on winning a 'Western Championship'?

That is the only decent reason for opposing altering the current provincial system. But, as many posters have already stated, they are still in favour of the provincial championships because it is their countys only hope of wining silverware. Surely if your only hope of winning silverware was winning a 'Western Championship' then logically you would put the same value on it as an Ulster or Connaught championship?

This topic comes up regularly and I still think this is the best solution. It creates a rigid fixture list which would aid the game at both county and club level. County leagues/championships can be plaaned around it, ensuring clubs have their best players available. Also, imo, having All Ireland series matches played on dedicated weekends would make it more exciting, like the way Heineken Cup matches in rugby are all played on certain weekends and not spread out willy-nilly across the season.

Teams would be given time to rest after matches. It still doesnt solve the problem of teams who go out of a provincial/regional championship being able to build momentum and putting the regional championships at a disadvantage. Although, perhaps this levels the playing field so to speak, making it more competitive and more unpredictable (more upsets). Worth a try I reckon.