could this work?? to save us

jakdelad

as mentioned on radio this morning

could we bring back the irish pound and say to the bondholders
we are going to give you an irish pound for euro for your bonds
float the pound which would plummet
hence the bond debt would be more or less gone??
as the bonds would be worth virtually nothing
i dont have the full dynamics of this
but does anyone get the gist of this
would it work????

whatstherush

jakdelad wrote: »

as mentioned on radio this morning

could we bring back the irish pound and say to the bondholders
we are going to give you an irish pound for euro for your bonds
float the pound which would plummet
hence the bond debt would be more or less gone??
as the bonds would be worth virtually nothing
i dont have the full dynamics of this
but does anyone get the gist of this
would it work????

Why would the bondholders accept this new pound given that it won't be worth anywhere near a euro

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

youtube!

Well stuff them I say, Ireland needs to wake up and tell European Bondholders to GTFO, We have an unreal amount of natural resources which we sell off for half nothin, we dont have a massive population to feed compared to other countries, we can be self sufficient with the right attitude from our people and those in power.

I could go on but basically I really couldnt give a flyin feck about bondholders or investore,they are just gamblers who lost and now want to rape all our viable industries.

Bring back the punt and lets make it work. It can be done,but dont expect a roadmap,we just have to try something new and take the risks.

Medu

That's just another way of defaulting.

We have an unreal amount of natural resources which we sell off for half nothin, we dont have a massive population to feed compared to other countries, we can be self sufficient with the right attitude from our people and those in power.

We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

Scofflaw

Medu wrote: »

That's just another way of defaulting.

We have an unreal amount of natural resources which we sell off for half nothin, we dont have a massive population to feed compared to other countries, we can be self sufficient with the right attitude from our people and those in power

We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

I'd say that "unreal" is exactly the right word.

amused,
Scofflaw

pieface_ie

We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

youtube!

Medu wrote: »

That's just another way of defaulting.



We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

1)Corrib Gas fields

2) More wind power than any other country on the Earth.

3)Some of The richest seas in terms of fishing o the planet (sold off for a song)

4)Wave power,again huge potential.

5) Peat bogs

and so on and on and on,to say we have no natural resources is a stupid assertion.

alan85

Medu wrote: »

That's just another way of defaulting.



We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

Apparently fish taken from our seas are worth in the order of €20bn a year. Only problem is it's the European mainland fishing the fish so we see no benefit. What dumbass negotiated that deal?! Should have at least said 'ok, fish it, but make sure 30% of your fish sold from Irish seas are sourced from Ireland direct!'.... Nobody thinks of money staying in Ireland at the end of the day...

jimmycrackcorm

alan85 wrote: »

Apparently fish taken from our seas are worth in the order of €20bn a year. Only problem is it's the European mainland fishing the fish so we see no benefit.

We got a fortune in structural and other funding from Europe and I don't ever recall this country benefiting in any major way from fishing prior to the common fisheries policy.

alan85

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We got a fortune in structural and other funding from Europe and I don't ever recall this country benefiting in any major way from fishing prior to the common fisheries policy.

I would call jobs for small villages dotting our very rural coastline major. Quotas have changed that. The funding we have gotten in those years is a figure of cerca €60bn in total. That's what, 3/4 years of what is taken from our seas annually?

RichardAnd

Medu wrote: »

That's just another way of defaulting.



We have hardly any natural resources in this country, saying other wise is just nonsense.

Nonsense, we have our bright and highly educated young people

Ah no, seriously though you're right. We've land and not much besides.

paddy0090

No. I think threatening to do so would scare le bejesses out of Sarkozy et al. But that's it really. David McWilliams did a piece on this in the SBP. Almost as dumb as the assertion that we have loads of natural resources.

I'm reliably informed it would make us between 40% and 60% poorer. But I have no proof of this. It's considerably easier to just cut the deficit.

andrew

Since our debt is denominated in Euro, no. The only way to get rid of this debt is to a) Pay it back or b) Default. Though perhaps there's some other esoteric method that exists.

3DataModem

Please please do this.

Bye bye mortgage.

Nody

pieface_ie wrote: »

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/gas-oil-robbery

So you qoute a site who're using lalala numbers as truth to try to make sure they get more money? Yea, sorry to disappoint you but they are utterly wrong.

youtube! wrote: »

1)Corrib Gas fields

Which is a VERY small field by comparison (and so far the ONLY field commercialized since 1970s, wonder why that is the case...)

2) More wind power than any other country on the Earth.

And what would stop UK, Greenland etc. to utilize this wind as well and how good is it doing now?

3)Some of The richest seas in terms of fishing o the planet (sold off for a song)

All reports point out that the fishing rights have been worth far less then the money Ireland received in funding for projects.

4)Wave power,again huge potential.

Which once again can be used by a lot of other countries yet no one does, hmm, wonder why...

5) Peat bogs

Inefficient coal and runs straight against your point 2 and 4.

and so on and on and on,to say we have no natural resources is a stupid assertion.

No, the assertion is that there are no current valuable natural resources on a scale of lets say Norway etc. that will magically solve the problem.

alan85 wrote: »

Apparently fish taken from our seas are worth in the order of €20bn a year. Only problem is it's the European mainland fishing the fish so we see no benefit. What dumbass negotiated that deal?! Should have at least said 'ok, fish it, but make sure 30% of your fish sold from Irish seas are sourced from Ireland direct!'.... Nobody thinks of money staying in Ireland at the end of the day...

Not even close to 20 Bil a year and that would also be an illegal requirement as per the freedom of movement of goods. To put this in perspective take Iceland, ~40% of their export is Fish and they got a heck of a lot more fish in their area of the sea due to 200 nautical mile radius and the streams around it. Their 2010 export was worth ~900 Million in total for Fish (based on the Wikipedia export value of 560647 Million Icelandic krona and 250 krona to the EUR). You think the Irish waters would be worth over 20 times as much as the Icelandic once?

alan85

Nody wrote: »

Not even close to 20 Bil a year and that would also be an illegal requirement as per the freedom of movement of goods.

Illegal by whom? The bigger states seem to set these laws as suits them. It's our resource, we decide how it's dealt with. France requires its supermarkets source at least 50% of produce from the region it's in. I'm sure we could, if we had big enough balls, influence some laws in our favour...

Irish are walk overs... And I'm Irish so I can say it. We need some balls in this country...

RichardAnd

alan85 wrote: »

Illegal by whom? The bigger states seem to set these laws as suits them. It's our resource, we decide how it's dealt with. France requires its supermarkets source at least 50% of produce from the region it's in. I'm sure we could, if we had big enough balls, influence some laws in our favour...

Irish are walk overs... And I'm Irish so I can say it. We need some balls in this country...

Yes but the French don't have such high wages and rents that we have. What you're saying is something to work towards but we can't just start dictating to Tesco where they buy their produce and not expect them to reconsider staying here at all. We're on thin ice, very and we must be extremely tact with employers.

paddy0090

alan85 wrote: »

Illegal by whom? The bigger states seem to set these laws as suits them. It's our resource, we decide how it's dealt with. France requires its supermarkets source at least 50% of produce from the region it's in. I'm sure we could, if we had big enough balls, influence some laws in our favour...

Irish are walk overs... And I'm Irish so I can say it. We need some balls in this country...

There's about as much money in Fishing as there is in Farming. Thats a little more than none.

Influencing the law has less to do with balls than you might think. If every female was a shemale we wouldn't be in a better position.We coughed up an old industry so we'd have better terms for others.

Inquitus

3DataModem wrote: »

Please please do this.

Bye bye mortgage.

Your mortgage is in Euros. When you start getting paid in Disneypunts you'll be screwed.

alan85

RichardAnd wrote: »

Yes but the French don't have such high wages and rents that we have. What you're saying is something to work towards but we can't just start dictating to Tesco where they buy their produce and not expect them to reconsider staying here at all. We're on thin ice, very and we must be extremely tact with employers.

Yes we can. Why not? They're sucking the life out of towns around the country albeit Dunnes included. We could force both to buy a certain amount of Irish produce to ensure that if ever there was any supply crisis from abroad we could be guaranteed supplies here (which isn't out of this world if you consider the ash crisis of only 1 year ago). The consumer agency has been crying out for more competition. It's about time their suggestions were turned into something more than 30 second sound bites for RTé once a year!

alan85

paddy0090 wrote: »

There's about as much money in Fishing as there is in Farming. Thats a little more than none.

Influencing the law has less to do with balls than you might think. If every female was a shemale we wouldn't be in a better position.We coughed up an old industry so we'd have better terms for others.

Better terms for others?

Nody

alan85 wrote: »

Yes we can. Why not? They're sucking the life out of towns around the country albeit Dunnes included. We could force both to buy a certain amount of Irish produce to ensure that if ever there was any supply crisis from abroad we could be guaranteed supplies here (which isn't out of this world if you consider the ash crisis of only 1 year ago). The consumer agency has been crying out for more competition. It's about time their suggestions were turned into something more than 30 second sound bites for RTé once a year!

Why are you mixing up two issues? There is lack of Irish products because they are not competitive on the market (to costly).

The sucking out of life from towns as you put it is down to consumers buying from Dunnes & Tesco (and then complain about it). Same thing with Wellmart in the US; the consumers decide what shops will be available with their behaviour...

Donal Og O Baelach

How about making balls of Sheepsh1t our new currency? We could weigh out a few million kg of it and send it to Brussels.
Bet the Dubs wouldn't go for it though.

paddy0090

alan85 wrote: »

Better terms for others?

Other industries e.g farming, agribusiness, IT,

jakdelad

paddy0090 wrote: »

Other industries e.g farming, agribusiness, IT,

ha ha always one funny guy
my nextdoor farmer has 200 acres and gets 70,000 from the cap every year
all the farmers are keeping their heads down

over one billion goes in farm payments to irish farmers every year
as landless taxpayers why should we subsidise non viable irish private farms??


Top payments to companies

1: Greencore group plc, Earlsfort Terrace, Dublin, €83,377,557.
2: The Irish Dairy Board Co-op, Lr Mount St, Dublin, €6,551,384.
3: Kerry Ingredients Ireland, Listowel, Co Kerry, €5,056,628.
4: R A Bailey Ltd, Western Ind Estate, Dublin 12, €2,861,538.
5: Commercial Mushroom PRS Co-op, Co Monaghan, €2,851,824.
6: Ashbourne Meat Processors, Naas, Co Kildare, €1,164,792.
7: Rosderra Irish Meats Group, Edenderry, Co Offaly, €715,218.
8: Wyeth Nutritionals Ireland, Askeaton, Co Limerick, €698,123.
9: Abbott Irl, Cootehill, Co Cavan, €680,898.
10: Oliver Mcavinia Ltd, Drogheda, Co Meath, €664,911.

Top payments to farmers

1: Tom and Aoife Browne – Killeagh, Co Cork, €432,564.
2: Tim Sheahan – Mallow, Co Cork, €381,892.
3: Walter Furlong – Enniscorthy, Co Wexford, €372,578.
4: Terence Coughlan – Rathcormac, Co Cork, €337,567.
5: Denis Howard – Mallow, Co Cork, €330,906.
6: John Brophy – Tullow, Co Carlow, €324,794.
7: Cyril Goode – Arklow, Co Wicklow, €319,704.
8: Jerry Healy, Cobh, Co Cork, €309,137.
9: Jeremiah Morrison – Knockanore, Co Waterford, €308,539.
10. John O’Shea – Piltown, Co Kilkenny, €299,926.



This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, May 02, 2009



Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/farmers-object-as-cap-payment-details-published-90785.html#ixzz1LtI15VRk

alan85

Nody wrote: »

Why are you mixing up two issues? There is lack of Irish products because they are not competitive on the market (to costly).

The sucking out of life from towns as you put it is down to consumers buying from Dunnes & Tesco (and then complain about it). Same thing with Wellmart in the US; the consumers decide what shops will be available with their behaviour...

Yeah, your logic makes perfect sense! Have you learned anything over the last 4 years?! Just like consumers decided to take on enormous sums of debt that they couldn't handle(but seemed the sensible and easy decision). I'm not saying people are stupid but I certainly don't think the South Dublin mother of 5 is gona give a s'it about our producers staying in business and general viability of industry here at all...

paddy0090

jakdelad wrote: »

ha ha always one funny guy
my nextdoor farmer has 200 acres and gets 70,000 from the cap every year
all the farmers are keeping their heads down

over one billion goes in farm payments to irish farmers every year
as landless taxpayers why should we subsidise non viable irish private farms??

I'm not being funny. I'm not saying it's right either.

You'll probably find that people like Larry Goodman have a lot to say on these matters and a lot of influence. I can't imagine he cares to much for fishing.

The CAP is a f*cking disgrace, but parts of rural Irelands Economy would fall off a cliff without it.

peasant

Inquitus wrote: »

Your mortgage is in Euros. When you start getting paid in Disneypunts you'll be screwed.

not only that ...disneypunts won't buy you oil, gas, diesel, petrol either ...nor tea ...nor hobnobs.

Back to spuds from the turf fire

beeftotheheels

alan85 wrote: »

We could force both to buy a certain amount of Irish produce to ensure that if ever there was any supply crisis from abroad we could be guaranteed supplies here (which isn't out of this world if you consider the ash crisis of only 1 year ago).

Unless you're suggesting leaving the EU this would be illegal under EU law (as was the buy Irish campaign when it was government funded).

Medu

youtube! wrote: »

1)Corrib Gas fields

2) More wind power than any other country on the Earth.

3)Some of The richest seas in terms of fishing o the planet (sold off for a song)

4)Wave power,again huge potential.

5) Peat bogs

and so on and on and on,to say we have no natural resources is a stupid assertion.

1. The Corrib field is tiny
2. There is no money in wind- at least not yet.
3. Can you name all the countries that got rich fishing- portugal, spain?... oh wait...
4. Wave- still pie in the sky
5. Peat- is one of the worst forms of fuel in the world.

Scofflaw

alan85 wrote: »

Apparently fish taken from our seas are worth in the order of €20bn a year. Only problem is it's the European mainland fishing the fish so we see no benefit. What dumbass negotiated that deal?! Should have at least said 'ok, fish it, but make sure 30% of your fish sold from Irish seas are sourced from Ireland direct!'.... Nobody thinks of money staying in Ireland at the end of the day...

Sorry - are you being serious about that figure? Have you ever checked it for any basis in reality?

concerned,
Scofflaw

Prakari

Imagine that a superior race of aliens landed on earth and by the tiniest chances they happened to be friendly. Let’s say that we asked those aliens to investigate the current global economic crisis. Based on their research, before they would mention anything about greed, corruption, addictive spending, unions, welfare states there would point out one problem. This problem is so huge and so fundamental that they would be astounded that a race as advanced as humans could ever overlook it. They would simply point out that there is a far greater quantity of debt in the world than there is money to pay it off and that this ratio of debt to money will continue to rise. They would find it humorous that humans trapped themselves in a perpetual state of indebtedness. They would find it even more amusing that human’s modern solution to the problem of unpayable debt is to create even more debt (paying old debt with new loans).

The point is that this monetary system will leave almost every government and every individual in the non-banking economy (part that does not profit from debt) as a debt slave. Everyone can’t join in with the banking economy as it is parasitic and depends on the non-banking economy producing real value. People can joke about the absurdity of leaving the current monetary system but you better be ready once the shackles of debt slavery become attached to you and your family. Debt is becoming an increasingly pervasive part of people’s lives and it is only a matter of time before people are required to taking out loans to feed themselves (food prices will rise as arable land is declining and global population is growing exponentially).

Scofflaw

Prakari wrote: »

Imagine that a superior race of aliens landed on earth and by the tiniest chances they happened to be friendly. Let’s say that we asked those aliens to investigate the current global economic crisis. Based on their research, before they would mention anything about greed, corruption, addictive spending, unions, welfare states there would point out one problem. This problem is so huge and so fundamental that they would be astounded that a race as advanced as humans could ever overlook it. They would simply point out that there is a far greater quantity of debt in the world than there is money to pay it off and that this ratio of debt to money will continue to rise. They would find it humorous that humans trapped themselves in a perpetual state of indebtedness. They would find it even more amusing that human’s modern solution to the problem of unpayable debt is to create even more debt (paying old debt with new loans).

The point is that this monetary system will leave almost every government and every individual in the non-banking economy (part that does not profit from debt) as a debt slave. Everyone can’t join in with the banking economy as it is parasitic and depends on the non-banking economy producing real value. People can joke about the absurdity of leaving the current monetary system but you better be ready once the shackles of debt slavery become attached to you and your family. Debt is becoming an increasingly pervasive part of people’s lives and it is only a matter of time before people are required to taking out loans to feed themselves (food prices will rise as arable land is declining and global population is growing exponentially).

Prakari, if you want to put forward your theory of debt-free money - and clearly you do - please just start a thread, rather than pushing it on every other thread.

moderately,
Scofflaw

douglashyde

I can't wait to watch the 2011 'reeling in the years' in 2021.

douglashyde

just back on the original post which had nothing to do with natural resources.


A simple fact people seem to miss when considering defaulting and leaving the euro is that for the most part everything we buy comes from outside ireland.

You think €1.50 for petrol is bad.


And just on Morgan Kelly's idea. Rough idea, but maybe it's just what this country needs. A good kick up the arse.

RichardAnd

douglashyde wrote: »

I can't wait to watch the 2011 'reeling in the years' in 2021.

Yeah, watching the country falling apart to the smooth tunes of Justine Bieber and Lady Gaga. Can't wait

K-9

douglashyde wrote: »

just back on the original post which had nothing to do with natural resources.


A simple fact people seem to miss when considering defaulting and leaving the euro is that for the most part everything we buy comes from outside ireland.

You think €1.50 for petrol is bad.


And just on Morgan Kelly's idea. Rough idea, but maybe it's just what this country needs. A good kick up the arse.

The mad thing is we need prices to be high for oil and gas companies to be interested as it justifies the high costs associated with most of our "finds", so something to console ourselves with when filling up!

billyboy01

Who has transfered there money into Sterling in a UK Bank up in Ulster!:D

I dont fancy my savings becoming worthless over night to bailout a loser state, and to wipe out reckless peoples loans!:p

douglashyde

billyboy01 wrote: »

Who has transfered there money into Sterling in a UK Bank up in Ulster!:D

I dont fancy my savings becoming worthless over night to bailout a loser state, and to wipe out reckless peoples loans!:p

I've talked to alot of people who seem to think that because their savings are in a UK bank based in Ireland their money in safe with a move back to punt.

However unlikely it maybe, an Irish account in Rabodirect bank or ulster bank is the same as any other Irish bank.

billyboy01

douglashyde wrote: »

I've talked to alot of people who seem to think that because their savings are in a UK bank based in Ireland their money in safe with a move back to punt.

However unlikely it maybe, an Irish account in Rabodirect bank or ulster bank is the same as any other Irish bank.

Not if its in a Belfast Bank in Sterling!;)

ei.sdraob

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Who said anything about anyone being repaid Bigger the fool who lend to Ireland I say!

Some countries in past defaulted and renegotiated their debt obligations.