Garda Bashing.

maglite

Now I'm not going to say I love all Gardaí, I have meet some incompetent twits over the years. But I do have a question. It seems that when a garda does his job he is wrong but when he does't nothing he is also wrong.

Some recent examples, there is a thread running in legal discussion where a cyclist was cycling along a foot path and crossed a pedestrian crossing when the green man was up. Que the moan that the garda should be after "real criminals", when people get stopped for breaking the RTA they moan. When people get done for possession of small amounts of drugs again the gardaí should have been after real criminals etc.


I'm just wondering where the line between the laws you can break and those you cannot lies

thebigbiffo

maglite wrote: »

Garda Bashing

yes please. pm me.

johngalway

It's the cultural thing in this country of "getting away with stuff", which is almost seen as a right by some people. They know they're doing something wrong and bitch about it when they have to pay the piper for calling the tune.

Duggy747

Bitching because they got caught doing something they shouldn't have done in the 1st place.

davetherave

There are some people out there who see it as their God given right to break the law, and yet want everybody but themselves to be prosecuted for breaking it.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

maglite wrote: »

Now I'm not going to say I love all Gardaí, I have meet some incompetent twits over the years. But I do have a question. It seems that when a garda does his job he is wrong but when he does't nothing he is also wrong.

Some recent examples, there is a thread running in legal discussion where a cyclist was cycling along a foot path and crossed a pedestrian crossing when the green man was up. Que the moan that the garda should be after "real criminals", when people get stopped for breaking the RTA they moan. When people get done for possession of small amounts of drugs again the gardaí should have been after real criminals etc.


I'm just wondering where the line between the laws you can break and those you cannot lies

And I'd agree with them. I'll also have little respect for Gardai or any other police, as long as they continue to enforce drug prohibition.

mikom

maglite wrote: »

I'm just wondering where the line between the laws you can break and those you cannot lies

I was just wondering what do you do for a living.
Best to get this question out of the way early.

mikemac

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

And I'd agree with them. I'll also have little respect for Gardai or any other police, as long as they continue to enforce drug prohibition.

Focus your disrepect on the politicans who write the laws.
The gardaí only enforce what is there.
Maybe you want them to use discretion and turn a blind eye to certain laws but then this was the point the OP made.

maglite wrote: »

Some recent examples, there is a thread running in legal discussion where a cyclist was cycling along a foot path and crossed a pedestrian crossing when the green man was up. Que the moan that the garda should be after "real criminals", when people get stopped for breaking the RTA they moan.

Same in motor forum. Posters demanding car seizures and crushing offenders cars and lifetime driving bans for some.
The next thread down is someone wanting a grace period to drive around untaxed and furious they were stopped at a checkpoint.
Can't win

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

A garda knew what he'd have to enforce signing up to join the force. I myself couldn't do it because I'd have to enforce laws which I find morally wrong.

It wasn't me!

Well, just recently, I got accused of being a figure within the Catholic church who's responsible for covering up child rape because I thought the idea that all Gardai were sociopaths just waiting to assault me was ridiculous, so yeah, I think there's some negative sentiment out there! Not to say it has any value, mind.

ejmaztec

maglite wrote: »

Now I'm not going to say I love all Gardaí, I have meet some incompetent twits over the years. But I do have a question. It seems that when a garda does his job he is wrong but when he does't nothing he is also wrong.

Some recent examples, there is a thread running in legal discussion where a cyclist was cycling along a foot path and crossed a pedestrian crossing when the green man was up. Que the moan that the garda should be after "real criminals", when people get stopped for breaking the RTA they moan. When people get done for possession of small amounts of drugs again the gardaí should have been after real criminals etc.


I'm just wondering where the line between the laws you can break and those you cannot lies

That line would be across the floor of the local court-room.

hatz7

Well I for one think that citizens should not be prosecuted for a range of minor offenses, such as that cycling one mentioned.

Why, well because it makes sense, its logical. The process of delivering justice in this state is ridiculously high, many 'offenses' are not worth prosecuting because of the cost of the court service and cost of collecting fines can be greater than the amount of fines in many cases, plus, the execution of arbitrary justice is not suited to this country.

I like that the guards let us off on a range of things, I know I have been left off by guards for things that technically I should of been prosecuted for.

I don't like garda bashing, and I am in favor of them using their own common sense in deciding who to charge and who to let off.

Zebra3

Maybe when the guards stopping assaulting peaceful protestors, they'll get some respect.

Too many of them think policing a protest gives them the right to attack innocent people who pay their wages.

Assholes.

Dartz

There are crimes that actually harm society, and crimes that are easy to enforce and look good on the statistics.

It's often easier to criminalise decent people who won't put up as much of a fight as the real nasties out there who'll go kicking and screaming through the courts and then be released out the revolving door at the end.

The law seems to exist less and less to protect people and more and more to garner +1 arrest, +1 fine, +1 crime solved.... while the real criminals are still running amok. it's the appearrance of dealing with crime, rather than actually going to the bother of dealing with it.

Excuse me while I go over in the corner and rant....

mikemac

And a bit offtopic and maybe my own little rant but security do exactly what's in this quote

Dartz wrote: »

It's often easier to criminalise decent people who won't put up as much of a fight as the real nasties out there who'll go kicking and screaming

Fine the quiet office worker with no ticket. Ok, that's fair, that's the rules
Remove but don't fine the trouble making skanger who has no ticket and get aggressive when challenged. They are removed and will just get the next luas

Sorry, a bit offtopic but similar to what the gardai do at times

talla10

Zebra3 wrote: »

Too many of them think policing a protest gives them the right to attack innocent people who pay their wages..

Don't the Gardai pay tax??

Another way of looking at it is that Garda taxes are paying other people's social welfare :rolleyes:

cursai

Zebra3 wrote: »

Maybe when the guards stopping assaulting peaceful protestors, they'll get some respect.

Too many of them think policing a protest gives them the right to attack innocent people who pay their wages.

Assholes.

HA HA AHA AHA Seriously!!! hahaha

Matt Santos

The problem that the General Public has with An Gardai Siochana at the moment is the perceived waste of money that our National Police Force is at the moment.
Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues! I believe there is room for a seperate enforcing body that is an expansion of the speed vans about the country now that deal exclusively with road and vehicular crime. Of course, when a fatality is involved bring in the more qualified dept of the present force but it doesn't make sense to see a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train sitting like a fool in a Patrol car shooting fish in a barrel with a speed gun!
All Gardai left Templemore with the dream of being "Horatio Caine" and solving murders and other high crimes as opposed to the version we end up with! ie; punching in the time skulking from one half incident to the next trying to justify their wages!
The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...

thebigbiffo

Dartz wrote: »

There are crimes that actually harm society, and crimes that are easy to enforce and look good on the statistics.

It's often easier to criminalise decent people who won't put up as much of a fight as the real nasties out there who'll go kicking and screaming through the courts and then be released out the revolving door at the end.

The law seems to exist less and less to protect people and more and more to garner +1 arrest, +1 fine, +1 crime solved.... while the real criminals are still running amok. it's the appearrance of dealing with crime, rather than actually going to the bother of dealing with it.

Excuse me while I go over in the corner and rant....

have you seen The Wire?

Wait...McNulty...is that you??

cursai

Matt Santos wrote: »

The problem that the General Public has with An Gardai Siochana at the moment is the perceived waste of money that our National Police Force is at the moment.
Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues! I believe there is room for a seperate enforcing body that is an expansion of the speed vans about the country now that deal exclusively with road and vehicular crime. Of course, when a fatality is involved bring in the more qualified dept of the present force but it doesn't make sense to see a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train sitting like a fool in a Patrol car shooting fish in a barrel with a speed gun!
All Gardai left Templemore with the dream of being "Horatio Caine" and solving murders and other high crimes as opposed to the version we end up with! ie; punching in the time skulking from one half incident to the next trying to justify their wages!
The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...

That post first of all!

Dartz

thebigbiffo wrote: »

have you seen The Wire?

Wait...McNulty...is that you??

Nah mate, I'm Robert Kling's Irish cousin...

Matt Santos

cursai wrote: »

That post first of all!

Come on Cursai.......... Thrill us with your acumen.

mikemac

Edit: Matt Santos above addressed this already ^^^^


Bringing in more civilians into stations might help?
Many say the HSE is overstaffed, couldn't some administrators come in and do clerical work in stations.
It's being done already but expand it

Would free up gardai and the administrator gets to keep their job.
And better still...if they are working in Dublin or any city they might love to move back down the country and work in their home area.

I'd say the same about transferring staff to social welfare offices around the country which are understaffed but that's for another thread

MagicSean

Zebra3 wrote: »

Maybe when the guards stopping assaulting peaceful protestors, they'll get some respect.

Too many of them think policing a protest gives them the right to attack innocent people who pay their wages.

Assholes.

Ha ha ha. Good one. To think those folks in shell to sea do anything but drain social welfare.

cursai

Matt Santos wrote: »

The problem that the General Public has with An Gardai Siochana at the moment is the perceived waste of money that our National Police Force is at the moment.

Its one the most cost efficient departments in the public sector!

Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues!

The population has expanded as has the workload!

I believe there is room for a seperate enforcing body that is an expansion of the speed vans about the country now that deal exclusively with road and vehicular crime. Of course, when a fatality is involved bring in the more qualified dept of the present force but it doesn't make sense to see a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train sitting like a fool in a Patrol car shooting fish in a barrel with a speed gun

Grand idea! Its happening already and the tickets and fines they impose can't be weasled or talked out of! GO Safe, Clampers etc...

All Gardai left Templemore with the dream of being "Horatio Caine" and solving murders and other high crimes as opposed to the version we end up with! ie; punching in the time skulking from one half incident to the next trying to justify their wages!

ALL Gardai, Nobody is naive enough to think they will ALL be involved in serious crime. Horatio Caine os fictional as are his work methods and time line of investigations!

The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...

There is NO apathy existing in this area! Have never seen it!

cursai

Matt Santos wrote: »

The problem that the General Public has with An Gardai Siochana at the moment is the perceived waste of money that our National Police Force is at the moment.
Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues! I believe there is room for a seperate enforcing body that is an expansion of the speed vans about the country now that deal exclusively with road and vehicular crime. Of course, when a fatality is involved bring in the more qualified dept of the present force but it doesn't make sense to see a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train sitting like a fool in a Patrol car shooting fish in a barrel with a speed gun!
All Gardai left Templemore with the dream of being "Horatio Caine" and solving murders and other high crimes as opposed to the version we end up with! ie; punching in the time skulking from one half incident to the next trying to justify their wages!
The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...

feelingstressed wrote: »

Edit: Matt Santos above addressed this already ^^^^


Bringing in more civilians into stations might help?
Many say the HSE is overstaffed, couldn't some administrators come in and do clerical work in stations.
It's being done already but expand it

Would free up gardai and the administrator gets to keep their job.
And better still...if they are working in Dublin or any city they might love to move back down the country and work in their home area.

I'd say the same about transferring staff to social welfare offices around the country which are understaffed but that's for another thread

Thers already a huge amount of civilian staff in stations, the problem lies with administrative departments or Garda headquarters!

MagicSean

feelingstressed wrote: »

Edit: Matt Santos above addressed this already ^^^^


Bringing in more civilians into stations might help?
Many say the HSE is overstaffed, couldn't some administrators come in and do clerical work in stations.
It's being done already but expand it

Would free up gardai and the administrator gets to keep their job.
And better still...if they are working in Dublin or any city they might love to move back down the country and work in their home area.

I'd say the same about transferring staff to social welfare offices around the country which are understaffed but that's for another thread

It comes down to privacy issues a lot. Do you want your next door neighbour having access to your criminal record just because she works in the station issuing firearms licences? Also responsability for decisions made in simple matters always fall on the Garda. Even simple things like passport forms and motor tax renewals require a signature witnessed by a Garda.

mikemac

k_mac wrote: »

It comes down to privacy issues a lot.

Over in work forum, the enumerators signed something called the Offical Secrets Act before they started their work on the census.
That's the term they used

If my neighbor is vetted and cleared then I've no issue.
I suppose others would and that's understandable too

Matt Santos

cursai wrote: »

[/I][/B]

There is NO apathy existing in this area! Have never seen it!

Originally Posted by Matt Santos View Post
The problem that the General Public has with An Gardai Siochana at the moment is the perceived waste of money that our National Police Force is at the moment.

Its one the most cost efficient departments in the public sector!
How can a law enforcement department be cost efficient? Paying for itself with the amount of speeding fines etc that are heaped upon Joe Public everyday? Not saying that these people should go unpunished but if yer saying that the Force is cost efficient as a result of this revenue you got to be joking!
Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues!

The population has expanded as has the workload!
Population increase indeed but there is no excuse for the relatively low rate of success that the Force has at the moment for Murder etc. Before the Murder Squad was disbanded in the early '80's the Nation had nearly a 100% success rate. Now, I don't condone their methods but eh, if it ain't broke etc....
I believe there is room for a seperate enforcing body that is an expansion of the speed vans about the country now that deal exclusively with road and vehicular crime. Of course, when a fatality is involved bring in the more qualified dept of the present force but it doesn't make sense to see a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train sitting like a fool in a Patrol car shooting fish in a barrel with a speed gun

Grand idea! Its happening already and the tickets and fines they impose can't be weasled or talked out of! GO Safe, Clampers etc...
Just justify why a fully trained Garda at the cost to the State mentioned should be spending his/her day doing the as mentioned "shooting fish in a barrell" with speeding fines etc.... Can't be done. The amount of training to cover this aspect of policing is pretty small but seems to be the lifeblood of the Gardai revenue!! Outsourcing to a lesser trained group is surely the correct thing to do.
All Gardai left Templemore with the dream of being "Horatio Caine" and solving murders and other high crimes as opposed to the version we end up with! ie; punching in the time skulking from one half incident to the next trying to justify their wages!

ALL Gardai, Nobody is naive enough to think they will ALL be involved in serious crime. Horatio Caine os fictional as are his work methods and time line of investigations!
Ok, nobody is naive as to what the job will actually bring but to see the energy and vigor that is in new recruits and is eventually sucked out of them from "deadwood" Gardai that are seeing out their time is a shame.
The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...
Maybe it's just local to me but there is resentment and it's not disguised..
Cursai, I am not bashing ALL Gardai. There are some hugely important Gardai figures amongst the Force but, disturbingly, there is a huge number of people who are sadly wishing their lives away in uniform putting in the time, at top money also, waiting to retire. Just a view...

mikemac

That's just a nightmare to read, sorry ^^

I don't which are quotes and which are being responded to

MagicSean

feelingstressed wrote: »

Over in work forum, the enumerators signed something called the Offical Secrets Act before they started their work on the census.
That's the term they used

If my neighbor is vetted and cleared then I've no issue.
I suppose others would and that's understandable too

I suppose that's all very well until it's something personal. Sexual assaults and domestic violence come to mind. Do you want a civilian typing out your statement or would you rather the investigating Garda do it?

Biggles1980

feelingstressed wrote: »

And a bit offtopic and maybe my own little rant but security do exactly what's in this quote



Fine the quiet office worker with no ticket. Ok, that's fair, that's the rules
Remove but don't fine the trouble making skanger who has no ticket and get aggressive when challenged. They are removed and will just get the next luas

Sorry, a bit offtopic but similar to what the gardai do at times

2 things wrong with this quote. (1) Gardai don't enforce ticket payment on the Luas or any other public transport. (2) If they are called for or come accross an aggressive person, by law they have to envoke Section 8 of the criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, which is to demand that the person decist from their behaviour and leave the vicinity. If that person fails to comply with that requirment then they can be arrested.

If this person has not paid for a ticket it is up to the Luas operator to prosecute them, not the Gardai.

Get your facts right before you make defamatory statements like that.

Show Time

Like all walks of life, Some Garda are good at their jobs and some are ****.

Biggles1980

Matt Santos wrote: »

Never has the rate of unsolved murders been as high yet a high percentage of the bottom of the pile Gardai are handily stopping people for speeding, Tax, Insurance and NCT issues!...

The detection rate for An Garda Siochana is one of the highest in Europe. So you think that it is ok to drive around with no insurance in a defective car! God help you if you are hit by an uninsured driver

Matt Santos wrote: »

a Garda that cost the tax payer €150,000 to train...

Where are you getting that figure from!!

Matt Santos wrote: »

The apathy towards civilians working in stations doing clerical work now is astonishing. Gardai are looking at these civilians doing their "handy numbers" and forcing them out to do the job they were supposed to do in the first place but yet the crime solving percentages still go up! Something wrong somewhere...

How many Gardai did you interview in order to arrive at this conclusion? Let me guess, none. I personally know that most Gardai welcome civillians working in Garda stations, but the Government is painfully slow about making this change.

mikemac

Biggles1980 wrote: »

2 things wrong with this quote. (1) Gardai don't enforce ticket payment on the Luas or any other public transport. (2) If they are called for or come accross an aggressive person, by law they have to envoke Section 8 of the criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, which is to demand that the person decist from their behaviour and leave the vicinity. If that person fails to comply with that requirment then they can be arrested.

If this person has not paid for a ticket it is up to the Luas operator to prosecute them, not the Gardai.

Get your facts right before you make defamatory statements like that.

Why don't you calm down yourself?

I never once posted it was the gardaí checking tickets on the Luas
And I posted twice it was an offtopic post!

I was post 15 and I was responding to post 14
Maybe read a bit more carefully
Gets your facts right indeed :rolleyes:
There was me thinking that gardaí were trained to be observant and have great attention to detail. Maybe you could do with a refresher course, go ask your superior

westendgirlie

Biggles1980 wrote: »

2 things wrong with this quote. (1) Gardai don't enforce ticket payment on the Luas or any other public transport. (2) If they are called for or come accross an aggressive person, by law they have to envoke Section 8 of the criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994, which is to demand that the person decist from their behaviour and leave the vicinity. If that person fails to comply with that requirment then they can be arrested.

If this person has not paid for a ticket it is up to the Luas operator to prosecute them, not the Gardai.

Get your facts right before you make defamatory statements like that.

I think you'll find the reference to Luas was the mode of transport used after Guard had requested that they be on their merry way. Not that a ticket wasn't bought for the Luas

Biggles1980

feelingstressed wrote: »

Why don't you calm down yourself?

I never once posted it was the gardaí checking tickets on the Luas
And I posted twice it was an offtopic post!

I was post 15 and I was responding to post 14
Maybe read a bit more carefully
Gets your facts right indeed :rolleyes:
There was me thinking that gardaí were trained to be observant and have great attention to detail. Maybe you could do with a refresher course, go ask your superior

Wow! And all I said was get your facts right. I must have hit a nerve there.

Whether I misunderstood you about the Luas reference is immaterial, however I do concede that i did. My point was that when people see Gardai pursuing a certain course of action that they don't agree with, it may be because of a legal reason they are unaware of, ie the necessity to envoke Section 8 before he/she can arrest the person.

On a side note, I am taking a wild guess from your last line that you assume I am a Guard. Thats very presumptious of you. I'm merely a concerned citizen with a wide knowledge of the law.

Again, apologies for upsetting you, it was not intended

Daegerty

Had some ould cnut of a Joey usher me along to the peasants side of the collection area at the airport

cause the spaces closest to the door are reserved for taxis who tip him to keep those spaces free. pure cnut of a fella

blackcoat

Duffy the vampire slayer: "And I'd agree with them. I'll also have little respect for Gardai or any other police, as long as they continue to enforce drug prohibition. "

Braindead post. You've just lumped all drugs into the same category. Idiotic.

TeddyTedson

It's there own departments fault for the hattitude people have towards them. Everyone has met an absolute ignorant obnoxious garda who gives hassle purely for the sake of it. I've found some of the traffic corps to be the worst. Some of them are so petty and insecure or something because they feel the need to exert their power over you.
Obviously most are decent people just doing a job and it's just a case of one bad apple.