The Far Left and the Far Right

Byron85

I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on this. Basically I have come to the conclusion that both extremes of the political spectrum are effectively bedfellows, with both of them having far more in common, at least in their social aspects, than either of them would care to admit to.

For example, last week we had the assassination of Bin Laden which many people were celebrating, in particular, at least to me, those of the right. This was abhorrent to me as no matter what, there is nothing to be gained in celebrating the death of another.

Today I read that Thatcher isn't in the best of health and this has one of my friends, who is very far to the left, celebrating already. She has even made a playlist that she can "party to" if/when Thatcher dies. I pointed out to her that this is completely abhorrent, illogical and sadistic but she "doesn't care". You can view the playlist here:

http://www.we7.com/#/user/view-playlist!playlistId=2049342&m=0


Now, what i'm trying to get at is that both extreme ends of the spectrum seem to relish in the death of others with whom they disagree and both sides demand an increasing control of people and society in general.

Am I completely off the mark or am I actually on to something? Either way, i'm completely disgusted by my friend's remarks. She's actually made me reconsider labelling myself as a left wing leaning person. I cannot be associated with such things that I find morally reprehensible.

Dudess

Yeah I agree. Some people to the extreme left seem as hate-filled and irrational as their right-wing counterparts - e.g. George Galloway.

Pathetic, especially for an adult, to be going on like that about Maggie T dying - and I despise the woman.

red_red_wine

I think that perhaps the supporters of the ideologies may have some traits in common, but the political ideologies themselves are far removed from each other.

People who subscribe to either far left or far right positions on the political spectrum are by nature going to be extremists, believing that their particular belief system offers the solution to all questions. It seems that they see things in either black or white - free markets good, free markets bad, etc.

It's this good vs bad view of the world and of others that lends itself to people celebrating the death of say Bin Laden or Thatcher. In the US, Bin Laden was portrayed as being wholly evil and thus, you had masses of people rejoicing in his death. Similarly with Thatcher, I presume that your friend sees her as a symbol of everything that she despises, she is 'the witch.' For her, Thatcher becomes a villain, so she doesn't feel guilty about wishing for her death.

Those on the far right and the far left are going to see things on extreme levels. Whereas the moderate might see Bin Laden as a villainous man, but one who was still a human being, and so, be uneasy with the idea of dancing in the streets to celebrate his death, the extremist is just going to see him as the villain.

The belief systems of the far left and right are incompatible, but the personalities of their followers are generally going to be quite similar.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I'm very left-wing and I agree that theres a severe amount of hypocrisy by some of my fellow-travellers. Personally I was glad to see Osama dead, even though I have major problems with American foreign policy. My opinion would be that even if you dislike America and its politics, Osama Bin Laden was a mass murderer and his loss is the worlds gain.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Memnoch

I'm curious as to what boardsies consider to be far left view points. I'd love some examples. For example I haven't seen Mr. Galloway express any views that I would consider extremist, so I'd love some examples of his views which are considered in that respect.

My own feeling is that the term far left is used very broadly to broach a range of issues depending on the person using that term.

Memnoch

Permabear wrote: »

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Without any government interference the entire world would be ruled by a single corporation or be divided up by a handful of megacorporations. This is already sort of the case.

Unchecked capitalism is ultimately self defeating.

IngazZagni

Celebrating the death of a mass murderer and celebrating the ill health and possible death of a democratically elected public representative are two very different things. Both could be described as wrong but the latter is much worse.

Memnoch

I don't believe any death should be celebrated, though I can understand how people who feel grievously injured by someone cannot help but exult in their demise.

As for which is worse and which is better, clearly you are correct Ingazzagni, because democratically elected public representatives cannot commit mass murder, especially not western ones. Certainly none have ever been tried for such crimes. They do not however seem immune to - entirely coincidentally -declare wars and undertake other such actions that result in the loss of human life usually to many orders of magnitude greater than that done so by the much despised aforementioned mass murderers under the friendly and unfortunate banner of unavoidable collateral damage but, of course, always for entirely understandable and altruistic reasoning such as the spread of liberty, democracy and so forth.

Byron85

Byron85 wrote: »

I'm interested in getting other people's opinions on this. Basically I have come to the conclusion that both extremes of the political spectrum are effectively bedfellows, with both of them having far more in common, at least in their social aspects, than either of them would care to admit to.

For example, last week we had the assassination of Bin Laden which many people were celebrating, in particular, at least to me, those of the right. This was abhorrent to me as no matter what, there is nothing to be gained in celebrating the death of another.

Today I read that Thatcher isn't in the best of health and this has one of my friends, who is very far to the left, celebrating already. She has even made a playlist that she can "party to" if/when Thatcher dies. I pointed out to her that this is completely abhorrent, illogical and sadistic but she "doesn't care". You can view the playlist here:

http://www.we7.com/#/user/view-playlist!playlistId=2049342&m=0


Now, what i'm trying to get at is that both extreme ends of the spectrum seem to relish in the death of others with whom they disagree and both sides demand an increasing control of people and society in general.

Am I completely off the mark or am I actually on to something? Either way, i'm completely disgusted by my friend's remarks. She's actually made me reconsider labelling myself as a left wing leaning person. I cannot be associated with such things that I find morally reprehensible.

I suppose you are right, though I'd put that down more to a people thing than necessarily a political-leaning thing.
I can't imagine anyone celebrating these deaths I'm not denying that they are, just...
Bit morbid/sadistic isn't it?

IngazZagni

Memnoch wrote: »

I don't believe any death should be celebrated, though I can understand how people who feel grievously injured by someone cannot help but exult in their demise.

As for which is worse and which is better, clearly you are correct Ingazzagni, because democratically elected public representatives cannot commit mass murder, especially not western ones. Certainly none have ever been tried for such crimes. They do not however seem immune to - entirely coincidentally -declare wars and undertake other such actions that result in the loss of human life usually to many orders of magnitude greater than that done so by the much despised aforementioned mass murderers under the friendly and unfortunate banner of unavoidable collateral damage but, of course, always for entirely understandable and altruistic reasoning such as the spread of liberty, democracy and so forth.

Are you saying that Thatcher is just as bad as Bin Laden? That was my point and you know it was.

Memnoch

IngazZagni wrote: »

Are you saying that Thatcher is just as bad as Bin Laden? That was my point and you know it was.

I don't really know enough about Thatcher. But Bush/Blair? I'm also beginning to have doubts about some of Obama's actions. Not so much the Bin Laden episode, but a few other things.

IngazZagni

Memnoch wrote: »

I don't really know enough about Thatcher. But Bush/Blair? I'm also beginning to have doubts about some of Obama's actions. Not so much the Bin Laden episode, but a few other things.

So you think Tony Blair was as bad as Bin Laden? I'll end my conversation with you now....

Memnoch

As bad? Maybe. Probably, far worse. But don't let inconveniences like reality or truth get in the way of your blind hatred.

Permabear

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Permabear

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red_red_wine

Permabear wrote: »

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Perhaps you personally wouldn't celebrate their deaths and I imagine that most people, whatever their political leaning/faith/belief system etc. wouldn't celebrate the death of another. I would think though, that that minority who would be out dancing in the streets would come from an 'extremist' point of view.

The probability of a finding one who hates another enough to celebrate their demise is highest when you're considering those that are on the absolute opposite end of the spectrum, because they will disagree most strongly with that person. To rejoice in someone's death, you presumably need to absolutely hate that person It's most likely that that hatred is going to be born out of a hatred of what the person stands for.

The person who disagrees most strongly with a far-rightist is most likely going to be on the far left.

Permabear

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Nodin

Well she was honest as to what she was about. You couldn't really say 'I didn't know what I was voting for' with Thatcher, loathe her as I did/do.

red_red_wine

Another issue that we have with the likes of Thatcher is that it's seen to be fashionable to despise her. She had finished her terms in office a few years before I, or the majority of my friends, were born. I have respect for anyone who can knowledgeably say that they disagree with her policies, but I've known a few who have echoed some of the attitudes seen in the other linked thread, despite the fact that they know very little about her. Often, it's a case of hatred by osmosis. People dismiss her on the basis of the occasional snide mark they've heard being made by their parents etc. All of this is of course aided by the perception that it was her stubbornness that caused the death of the Maze hunger strikers. (I'm not going to say whether or not I think she was, I don't know enough about the subject.)

It's very romantic to be seen as a dissident but often it's ill-informed. A similar situation can be seen with those who wear Che Guevara t-shirts, because of the romantic association with the revolutionary rather than a genuine admiration of the man.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

red_red_wine wrote: »

Another issue that we have with the likes of Thatcher is that it's seen to be fashionable to despise her.

You're on to something here alright, but I think its also becoming increasingly fashionable to praise Thatchers policies and views.

red_red_wine

Either way, I dislike the idea of criticising or praising someone's policies simply because it's fashionable. I can see why you might admire Thatcher (and I do) and I can see why you might dislike her. Both are fair enough, if they're justified.

It's the idea that latching onto someone else's belief, without having any knowledge of the subject yourself, simply to have an opinion and thus appear well-informed etc. , that is pretentious.

Permabear

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Memnoch

I'd be more interested in seeing spending PER CAPITA and accounting for inflation. Overall spending doesn't really paint a fair picture.

Permabear

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whiteonion

IngazZagni wrote: »

So you think Tony Blair was as bad as Bin Laden? I'll end my conversation with you now....

Tony Blair is responsible for more deaths than Bin Ladin, so yes Tony Blair is far far worse than Bin Ladin. I honestly believe that Tony Blair deserves to be executed for his crimes against humanity.

Cianos

For any extreme view point it needs its villains upon which to place the blame of the wrongs of the world. Their way of thinking is defined and can only exist because of their appointed villains. It's not about the individual themselves, it's about their relative position - their appointed existence at the other end of the spectrum.

This is the polarisation of political ideology, and as such seeks to simplify all matters to the back and forth tit for tat motion. The reactions are similar - viewing the world and your opponents in particular as twisted representatives of the opposite of everything about you. You have value because you can see the bad in the world. The more badness you can see, the more value you have, the more correct and forgivable your action and inaction is.

It's a handy way to dodge moral obligation and rationalised thinking, and a quick route to mob riling and extremism.