SCIENCE DESPERATION

Erinfan

In less than two years span I have come to be desperate of science or humane poor management of modern techniques tools available.

Firstly: on June 1,2009 the flight AF447 disappear off the coast of Brazil with 216 passengers and 12 crewmembers .It took nearly two years and £4.4millions to localise the wreckage and recover the black boxes.

Secondly: on April 20,2010 :an explosion occurred in Deepwater Horizon Oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico. .After 5 long moths of epic battle with the monster which hold the breath of the world the well was officially sealed. According to the Flow Rate Technical Group, the leak amounted to about 4.9 million barrels (780,000 m3) of oil exceeding the 1989 EXXON Valdez as the largest ever to originate in U.S controlled waters.Some estimates the total cost to $20billions.

Then came the Chilean miners ordeal on August 5,2010.When the accident happens the news went unnoticed around the world letting the families members of the 33 trapped miners to their fates.

But fortunately for them 17 days later and eight exploratory boreholes were drilled the world were informed that “we(miners) are well in shelter ,the 33“
Once they knew that the men were alive, the rescuers implemented a comprehensive plan to both nurture and rescue them. It included deployment of three large drilling rig teams, nearly every government ministry, the expertise of NASA and more than a dozen international corporations. After 69 days underground, all 33 men were brought to the surface on 13 October 2010 over a period of almost 24 hours.

Lastly on March 11,2011 a powerful earthquake triggered a most devastating Tsunami which tested the ability, the humility ,capability of mankind to deal with catastrophe partially man made.The Fukushima crippled nuclear plant are no more in front lines but still haunted the nights of scientists.What will happen if another Tsunnami hit the plant.This is pissable and pity. :eek:

At the age of GPS , how are we not able to trace with exactitude the trajectory path of a plane ?We still rely on radio communication to know the position of transatlantic flight.

How can’t we cap the mere well drilled “only” 2400 m below sea level. I see on the documentary films the human intention to drill beneath Mars surface but this event let me speechless. This mars odyssey look likes a sort of propaganda.

With the expertise of the NASA it took 69 days to recover Chileans miners 600 meters below the surface.

And not the least we have all seen how desperate were Japanese to call down the out of control meltdown reactors. They rely finally fire fighters equipments in order to throw water on the installations.

Are human too arrogant and exaggerate its mighty ?.
Are these failures are the results of science limits or human faults?

Turtwig

I know this probably sounds horrible, but the Chilean rescue was a relatively easy task. Yeah it made from great publicity and all that. Drilling was slow, and then there were some engineering challenges along the way but nothing along the line of challenges that the other problems you mentioned experienced.

The problem with the nuclear power plant in Japan has been grossly exaggerated. Four plants were struck by the magnitude 9 earthquake and subsequent tidal waves all of them survived intact. The gross oversight at Fukushima's design was placing the Emergency Diesel Generators at sea level in front of the containment structure relative to the sea. Had they been placed on higher ground, or even behind the containment building we probably wouldn't even be mentioning the Fukushima plant. The plant was only designed for moment magnitude 7 quake, so it's a bit of a miracle it didn't suffer more damage. The situation is of course very serious but I don't think there's much you could do about it and I don't think it's actually significant compared to the tsunami incident as a whole.

Regarding the plane, there's been some time since I've been following this story but I believe it was because of the weather it flew through that made calculating it's final destination very difficult. And then of course there was the matter of it being sunk in the middle of ocean. I'll have to look this one up.

Deepwater Horizon is probably the accident most relevant to the questions you are asking. As we are getting more and more desperate for oil, biggers risks are been taken by drilling in deeper and deeper depths of water. We are undoubtedly going to squeeze this planet of every last drop of oil. The danger is of course that the necessity for oil extraction will mean sacrificing safety. Any failures that occur are pretty much the results of humans, call it greed, arrogance, it does not matter. Science itself is merely a process of refinement, humans are one who carry it out and ultimately that entails making mistakes.

That isn't to say that the process of science itself is infallible. The most efficient way to design an aircraft wing is via trial and error. Make a dozen designs, test them see which works best. Select the one that worked best and make variants of it and then select the one that works best, make variants of that and so on and so forth. This is similar to the way nature worked through evolution, the only difference been is that evolution couldn't reverse and go back and analyse previous design trees. And it was just three sentences up I realised this wasn't the pop science forum. Oh well. I'm not gonna delete everything now, I might refine this reply sometime.

So, um yeah to answer the questions. Humans are often too arrogant, but science itself is a refinement process that sometimes requires errors to advance.

MagicMarker

OP, how about you have good hard think about what the human race has achieved with science, and weigh all of that up with what what you've outlined in your original post?

Erinfan

I know this probably sounds horrible, but the Chilean rescue was a relatively easy task. Yeah it made from great publicity and all that. Drilling was slow, and then there were some engineering challenges along the way but nothing along the line of challenges that the other problems you mentioned experienced.

It mobilised all nearly every Chilean government ministry, the expertise of NASA and more than a dozen international corporations and cost $ 20 millions.

The problem with the nuclear power plant in Japan has been grossly exaggerated. Four plants were struck by the magnitude 9 earthquake and subsequent tidal waves all of them survived intact. The gross oversight at Fukushima's design was placing the Emergency Diesel Generators at sea level in front of the containment structure relative to the sea. Had they been placed on higher ground, or even behind the containment building we probably wouldn't even be mentioning the Fukushima plant. The plant was only designed for moment magnitude 7 quake, so it's a bit of a miracle it didn't suffer more damage. The situation is of course very serious but I don't think there's much you could do about it and I don't think it's actually significant compared to the tsunami incident as a whole.

The Fukushima reactors were designed to resist 7 quake magnitude sure but Engineers never thought that Japan coastal area was a land prone to Tsunami. All 54 Japanese nuclear plant are located at the coastal line due to the lack of big rivers in the lands.

Latest from AP:
A Japanese utility agreed Monday to shutter three nuclear reactors at coastal power plant while it builds a sea-wall and improves other tsunami defenses there. Since the March 11 disasters Chubu electric drew safety that include building a 40 foot high seawall nearly amile long over the next two or three years, company official said.
The Hamaoka plant lacks a concrete sea barrier now. Sand hills between the ocean and the plant are up to 50 feet high deemed enough to defend against a tsunaml around 26 feet high official said.

Regarding the plane, there's been some time since I've been following this story but I believe it was because of the weather it flew through that made calculating it's final destination very difficult. And then of course there was the matter of it being sunk in the middle of ocean. I'll have to look this one up.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/04/air-france-447-search-bodies?intcmp=239

Any failures that occur are pretty much the results of humans, call it greed, arrogance, it does not matter. Science itself is merely a process of refinement, humans are one who carry it out and ultimately that entails making mistakes.

Despite more than two weeks of attempts using undersea robots and other high technology, BP has failed to stop oil from gushing up from the sunken wreckage of the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig.
So with BP engineers publicly flummoxed by the challenges of mechanically repairing complex machines BP opened an online venue where the general public have submited ideas at the central command website deepwaterhorizonresponse.com(now closed). Submission are forwarded to a technical desk for engineers to sort through them.


AT yhe time, BP's alternative response technology (ART) team has received more than 116,500 submissions for suggestions and engineering innovations to help stem the flow of oil or mop up the damage. More than 300 of these have been considered for field testing and deployment, and more than 20 have been tested .

http://www.restorethegulf.gov/release/2010/09/27/submit-suggestion

The most efficient way to design an aircraft wing is via trial and error. Make a dozen designs, test them see which works best. Select the one that worked best and make variants of it and then select the one that works best, make variants of that and so on and so forth. This is similar to the way nature worked through evolution, the only difference been is that evolution couldn't reverse and go back and analyse previous design trees.

In my mind mathematic equations,chemistry and physics formulas and laboratories tests suit more with the trials and errors methods in this particular time.

Erinfan

MagicMarker wrote: »

OP, how about you have good hard think about what the human race has achieved with science, and weigh all of that up with what what you've outlined in your original post?

Yep. I have no desire to drag this thread on the virtues of scientism.

At its core, this philosophy -scientism-held, not only that science can provide mankind with an all-embracing philosophy of life and the solution to all problems, but that the techniques used in the physical sciences can be used to solve any problem.

As you know people don’t care about the trains which arrive unscheduled but rather on the trains which arrive late.:p

Maga

We should never forget Science goes hand in hand with politics and Government. Sure everything else does, but both the basic Science and Research and the destination and application of its techniques is decided by the Government and associated entities - after all, Science is funded mainly by the Government.

I find more worrying that there are millions of people dying of diseases such as Malaria in Africa and the amount of funding allocated to research and a cure/treatment is almost nothing compared to what goes to diseases such as Alzheimers. Sure, it would break my heart seen a relative of mine doing into dementia, but we are talking of diseases that have onsets around the 60-70s. And loads of money are going to them.

How about all the children and young adults dying of diseases that receive no funding for research?

Not sure if I add much to your topic, but it's very hard to see Science without the general context of society, its values, lobbies and politics, at the end of the day.