Help-seangaeilge-canúintí

cup of tea

How would I answer the following question?

Athscríobh an sliocht seo thíos mar ghnáthshliocht Gaeilge agus scríobh nótaí
gonta ar an gcanúint a léireoidh a saintréithe.


hijedor sʹi:s ə Lʹigʹun ə sʹki:, əs xirʹ sʹesʹun kaNʹtʹ orhu:. du:rṭ sʹe:
lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax
--- bʹlʹiənʹ sə La: Nʹuv, vʹi: midʹ ənʹˈsʹo hani:, agus vʹi: tʹrʹu:r əgiNʹ
a:n, ax ha:nʹikʹ midʹi a:n, agus sdo:hi: Nux vilʹ ə kʹaN elʹi: marʹuxta:lʹ.
gə dʹivinʹ, əˈdu:rṭ sʹiəd, Nʹi: ro sʹe: La:dʹirʹ ə Nʹe: Nam.




Is there any instructions on how to translate a paragraph like this(accesible on the net)?.Also how do I recognise what dialect is in question and what notes would I write on it?. I've come to the conclusion that by looking at it, one should be able to see where emphasis on words is i.e béim ar an dara siolla mar shampla
Another example is here.....

p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; } [FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]v'i: [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃupədo:r[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' fado: uN, [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əgəs bə je:n[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃupədo:r[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əb[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' a:r e: fí: Ɣra: d'i[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə sə dəun gə jar t[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i:r'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə boxd[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]N[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i: ake [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃe: e:N[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' ar boxd [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'r'i[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əw ə m[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'eh e:n xru:o:g er', nax d'u:rh[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əd ʃe:[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]orha:l' do:[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif] .[/FONT]


[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ax [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə tun he:d ʃ[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]e: n afr'iN' d'e do:ni:, N'i: an[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əd[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃ[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]e: l'e[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃ əN afr[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əN e:ʃd[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əxd gə [/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]d[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'ig'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əd ʃ[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]e: he:n' og[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əs ə v[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'an [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'wal'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə ogəs gə m[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i:f [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə ʃupə fosgilt[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]' eg'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə d[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'e [/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]do:ni: [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə N[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]e:j ə haxd a:N afr[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əN do:, ə f[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'ohu: [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ər də f[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i:N'.[/FONT]


[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]kaL'u: e: Nam ja:r, og[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]əs v[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i: e:gi:nt' wo:r er', m[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ər v[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i: [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ʃ[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]e: x[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə maç gə Ɣi:n[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə [/FONT]
[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]boxdə, d[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'e:nu: [/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]ə Ɣra: d[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode, sans-serif]'i: orhu:. [/FONT]

Go raibh maith agat.

Micilin Muc

I had prior experience/knowledge of the dialects before I learnt IPA. The wikipedia page was a great help to me. A few good books like Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne (bigger edition), Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge and The Irish of Tory all use IPA too. I think your first example is Connemara Irish.

Micilin Muc

I don't think that's Sean-Ghaeilge, btw. Maybe Early Modern Irish at the very oldest!

Enkidu

It can't be Old Irish. I would say it is early modern, basically from the last line:
Nʹi: ro sʹe:
which is:
Ní ro sé

ro doesn't exist as a verbal particle any more, but did in early modern. The language isn't archaic enough to be Middle Irish, so that leaves early Modern.

To translate IPA into normals spelling:
Vowel + : = Long Vowel, e.g. e: = é

Consonant + ' = Slender consonant,
e.g. b'an = (Slender b)an = bean
b'o: = (slender b)ó = beo

x = ch
Ɣ = dh/gh

Enkidu

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I had prior experience/knowledge of the dialects before I learnt IPA. The wikipedia page was a great help to me. A few good books like Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne (bigger edition), Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge and The Irish of Tory all use IPA too. I think your first example is Connemara Irish.

Tá eagrán níos mó ann! Glacaim leis go bhfuil tú ag caint faoin leabhar atá scriobhtha ag Dhiarmuid Ó Sé. Cad é an dhifríocht idir an t-eagrán seo agus an chead eagrán.

(There is a bigger edition! I assume you are talking about the book which Diarmuid Ó Sé has written. What is the difference between this edition and the first edition?)

cup of tea

Is there anywhere online that gives instructions on how to read it and how to decipher what dialect it is.thanks for the help so far guys.

Micilin Muc

Enkidu wrote: »

It can't be Old Irish. I would say it is early modern, basically from the last line:
Nʹi: ro sʹe:
which is:
Ní ro sé

ro doesn't exist as a verbal particle any more, but did in early modern. The language isn't archaic enough to be Middle Irish, so that leaves early Modern.

[Nʹi: ro sʹe:] is just ní raibh sé.

Enkidu wrote: »

Tá eagrán níos mó ann! Glacaim leis go bhfuil tú ag caint faoin leabhar atá scriobhtha ag Diarmuid Ó Sé. Cad é an dhifríocht idir an eagrán seo agus an chead eagrán.

(There is a bigger edition! I assume you are talking about the book which Diarmuid Ó Sé has written. What is the difference between this edition and the first edition?)

Tá dhá eagrán ann: an ceann beag seo, agus an t-eagrán méadaithe seo.

cup of tea wrote: »

Is there anywhere online that gives instructions on how to read it and how to decipher what dialect it is.thanks for the help so far guys.

Have a look at the books I mentioned above. I haven't seen any online resources yet.

Here's how I worked out the first example:

The first word [hijedor] is shuíodar. In Donegal Irish, this would be shuigh siad but shuíodar is used always in Munster and quite often in Connacht.

I then saw [gə rəu] go raibh. In Donegal this would be [go ro:] and in Munster this would be [go rev'].

Aard

OP, it's written in a modified IPA. Take it that all consonants are velarised (leathan) unless followed by an apostrophe (caol). Long vowels are followed by a colon. The capital N and L are "strong" versions, which afaik are no longer phonemic in most dialects.

I'm gonna assume that the passage is between square brackets. Here's what I come up with for the first one:

[hijedor sʹi:s ə Lʹigʹun ə sʹki:, əs xirʹ sʹesʹun kaNʹtʹ orhu:. du:rṭ sʹe:
lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax ]

Shuíodar síos ag ligeann a scí, 'is chuir seisean caint orthu. Dúirt sé
leofa? gur dóigh? go raibh éagruas éigin orthu. Dúradar leis nach raibh,
ach


Looks like regular Irish to me. Why do you think it's Old Irish? Anyway, tbh you have to be proficient in IPA to work out the dialect. At any rate, it's good to know IPA anyway.

cup of tea

Aard wrote: »

OP, it's written in a modified IPA. Take it that all consonants are velarised (leathan) unless followed by an apostrophe (caol). Long vowels are followed by a colon. The capital N and L are "strong" versions, which afaik are no longer phonemic in most dialects.

I'm gonna assume that the passage is between square brackets. Here's what I come up with for the first one:

[hijedor sʹi:s ə Lʹigʹun ə sʹki:, əs xirʹ sʹesʹun kaNʹtʹ orhu:. du:rṭ sʹe:
lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax ]

Shuíodar síos ag ligeann a scí, 'is chuir seisean caint orthu. Dúirt sé
leofa? gur dóigh? go raibh éagruas éigin orthu. Dúradar leis nach raibh,
ach


Looks like regular Irish to me. Why do you think it's Old Irish? Anyway, tbh you have to be proficient in IPA to work out the dialect. At any rate, it's good to know IPA anyway.

Thanks for the response...i found a translation.

Shuidear síos a ligean a sciath as chuir seisean cainnt orthu dúirt sé leo gur dóigh go raibh éagcruas éigin orthu.Dubhradar leis raibh ach.
Bliain sa la aniogh bhí muid anseo cheanna agus bhí triúr againn ann, ach thainig muid-ne ann agus is dóigh nach bhfuil a ceann eile maireachtáil.Go deimhin a dúirt siad, ní ró sé láidir a ....


You made a good go at translating it.
When answering the question, it says to comment on the dialect. Would that mean looking at where there is emphasis on words ie the ' and looking for where words are extended and broadened i.e : . Thanks

byhookorbycrook

Looks like it was just written phonetically.

Enkidu

Micilin Muc wrote: »

[Nʹi: ro sʹe:] is just ní raibh sé.

Wow!, you're good! It also makes sense as an early modern sentence (He isn't). So in Connaught raibh is just pronounced ro? Is that true for terminal "ibh" in general? Forgive my ignorance, I don't know too much about Connaught Irish.

One other question what is the IPA symbol for slender r? I know in Irish-IPA they write r', but what is it in proper IPA?

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Tá dhá eagrán ann: an ceann beag seo, agus an t-eagrán méadaithe seo.

GRMA. Tá an ceann beag agam, maith an leabhar é. Ceapaim go bhfuil an caibideal fé bhéim an ghutha ana-chuidiúil.

paddydublin

hijedor sʹi:s ə Lʹigʹun ə sʹki:, əs xirʹ sʹesʹun kaNʹtʹ orhu:. du:rṭ sʹe:
lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax
--- bʹlʹiənʹ sə La: Nʹuv, vʹi: midʹ ənʹˈsʹo hani:, agus vʹi: tʹrʹu:r əgiNʹ
a:n, ax ha:nʹikʹ midʹi a:n, agus sdo:hi: Nux vilʹ ə kʹaN elʹi: marʹuxta:lʹ.
gə dʹivinʹ, əˈdu:rṭ sʹiəd, Nʹi: ro sʹe: La:dʹirʹ ə Nʹe: Nam.

Níl anso ach buille faoi thuairim. Sílim go bhfuil Gaeilge Mumhan i gceist cionn is gur baineadh úsáid as "-odar" don tríú pearsa iolra san aimsir chaite. Tá an chéad alt soiléir go leor, ach téim ar strae rud beag sa dara halt (sílim ar aon nós). Súil agam go bhfuil seo mar chuidiú.

This is just a guess. I think it might be Munster Irish - the "odar" ending is used for the 3rd personal plural of the past tense. The first paragraph is clear enough but I think I go a little astray in teh second paragraph. Hope this is of some help.

Shuíodar síos ag ligean a scith, agus chuir seisean caint orthu. Dúirt sé leofa gur dócha go raibh ocras éigin orthu. Dúradar leis nach raibh.

bliain is lá inniu, bhímid anseo cheana, agus bhí triúr againn ann ach chonaic muid í ann agus is dócha nach bhfuil ach ceann eile ag maireachtáil. Go deimhin, a dúirt siad, ní raibh sé laidir i ndiaidh an ama.

An gal gréine

lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax ]

The following are said in Donegal
l'o:fa ...leofa...leo
gur do:hi: ...gur dóiche...gur dócha
rau....ró....rabh

paddydublin

lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax ]

In Donegal, ocras would more likely be sounded akras and iN'art (inteacht) would be used instead of
əˈkʹi:nʹ (éigin). Verbs with synthetic endings, like dúradar, would not be used either. Maireachtáil would be sounded ma'r'arta;'l' too, I think.

Not that it isn't Donegal Irish but sin an áit ina bhfuair mé mo chuid agus níor chuala mé trácht riamh ar shuíodar, bhíodar srl.

Enkidu

This may be incorrect, but isn't:

du:rṭ sʹe:

actually:

Dúrt sé

If it was Dúirt sé then the transcription would be: Du:r't' se:

Dúrt sé is a Munster form.

An gal gréine

paddydublin wrote: »

lʹo:fə gur do:hi: gə rəu e:gruəs əˈkʹi:nʹ orhu:. du:rudor lʹesʹ Nux rəu,
ax ]

In Donegal, ocras would more likely be sounded akras and iN'art (inteacht) would be used instead of
əˈkʹi:nʹ (éigin). Verbs with synthetic endings, like dúradar, would not be used either. Maireachtáil would be sounded ma'r'arta;'l' too, I think.

Not that it isn't Donegal Irish but sin an áit ina bhfuair mé mo chuid agus níor chuala mé trácht riamh ar shuíodar, bhíodar srl.

I dont think it's confined to one dialect.
And just to point out that the "ineart" and "marartáil" adaptation of pronounciation is confined to the Gaoth Dobhair parish and not used in the rest of the county.