Neil Best Hits Out at Kidney

TheHighRoad

IRELAND flanker Neil Best has hit out at national coach Declan Kidney for "not bothering" with English-based players such as James Downey and Roger Wilson, writes Hugh Farrelly. Best won 18 caps for Ireland between 2005 and 2007, but has not been in the international frame since Kidney took over in 2008. "Roger Wilson and James Downey are playing in a Heineken Cup final against Leinster, but neither of them have been getting a look-in," said Best. "It seems you're not going to get a look-in if you're playing outside Ireland." Meanwhile, All Blacks winger Joe Rokocoko has issued a come and get me call to Europe after failing to agree a deal to stay in New Zealand. "I will probably go somewhere, looking to balance some good money with a good lifestyle," said Rokocoko.

CatFromHue

wilson has been involved with ireland camps/tours before. mainly when he was in ireland.

i think he even went to the churchhill cup. the back row is very competitive. he has a huge chance when he comes up against heaslip in the final.

i think international defences will look at downey and smile

Beanmachine

I think Wilson has a full cap

WeeBushy

Yeah, was in 2005 against Japan.

jacothelad

I actually can't seem to find anything in the article that shows Best 'Hitting out at Kidney'. He simply states as factual that Deccie hasn't made use of two Irish players who are playing well and for a successful club. Seems fair comment to me. Neither would get ahead of the incumbents but Wilson in particular would be a good squad player. Downey plays like Maggs used to do for Ireland. We have better options at 12 in for example, Darcy, McFadden, Spence, Wallace, Marshall and no doubt a few more.

Jemo

Wilson would have been a good option to have around because for years we were light at number 8. But we have gone past the days of Wally covering 8, SOB is a better option there than Wilson is for example whilst Leamy, Muldoon and Coughlan can cover pretty well too. Then you have Ruddock and Henry who are both young and Ruddock in particular has the potential to have a long career in green. If Jamie was injured, I would personally move SOB to 8, and bring Jennings into the picture if Ferris was injured. If Jamie and SOB were injured then you would look at bringing him over as a specialist maybe but I reckon Kidney would probably just use Leamy. As for Downey, well when Fergus McFadden cannot make a matchday squad regularly for Ireland then how could you justify bringing him over? Theres a big gap in class between the two IMO. Maggs I read recently is still playing for some team in the championship though, was a good player in his time. Fair play to him for keeping going this long!

irishbucsfan

Neil Best must feel bad now that he's been shown up as such an average player. Probably wants to compensate by becoming a shock-jock journo when he retires.

Not looking forward to it.

razorblunt

Jemo wrote: »

Wilson would have been a good option to have around because for years we were light at number 8. But we have gone past the days of Wally covering 8, SOB is a better option there than Wilson is for example whilst Leamy, Muldoon and Coughlan can cover pretty well too. Then you have Ruddock and Henry who are both young and Ruddock in particular has the potential to have a long career in green. If Jamie was injured, I would personally move SOB to 8, and bring Jennings into the picture if Ferris was injured. If Jamie and SOB were injured then you would look at bringing him over as a specialist maybe but I reckon Kidney would probably just use Leamy. As for Downey, well when Fergus McFadden cannot make a matchday squad regularly for Ireland then how could you justify bringing him over? Theres a big gap in class between the two IMO. Maggs I read recently is still playing for some team in the championship though, was a good player in his time. Fair play to him for keeping going this long!

Maggs was with Rotherham and he took a coach role with someone else at the start of the season.

[EDIT] Wiki says it's Mosely.

Digifriendly

razorblunt wrote: »

Maggs was with Rotherham and he took a coach role with someone else at the start of the season.

[EDIT] Wiki says it's Mosely.

He's had to deal with the premature death of a young daughter through leukemia.

wixfjord

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Neil Best must feel bad now that he's been shown up as such an average player. Probably wants to compensate by becoming a shock-jock journo when he retires.

Not looking forward to it.

I really, really dislike Neil Best. A pure header, who had some talent, but is by all accounts a drinker, and by my account an eejit hothead.

jacothelad

wixfjord wrote: »

I really, really dislike Neil Best. A pure header, who had some talent, but is by all accounts a drinker, and by my account an eejit hothead.

Good summary.

siltirocker

He made no friends at the Churchill Cup. I hear and management were not impressed with his attitude. He captained them for 50 minutes of the last game but demanded to lift the Cup ahead of the actual captain after the tournament as he was 'a more senior player' on the international scene - leading to a few words im told.

flutered

siltirocker wrote: »

He made no friends at the Churchill Cup. I hear and management were not impressed with his attitude. He captained them for 50 minutes of the last game but demanded to lift the Cup ahead of the actual captain after the tournament as he was 'a more senior player' on the international scene - leading to a few words im told.

that says it all

myflipflops

It's pretty much been accepted over the last 10 years that playing in England will be viewed as a negative with regard to your Ireland chances. Only Geordan Murphy and Simon Easterby has won a significant number of caps while based away from Ireland.

How is Kidney doing anything different to the previous Irish coaches and how is this a story?

The Roger Wilson argument is especially redundant when you have Heaslip, Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Leamy, Coghlan, Henry, Ruddock etc etc etc available in the backrow. Let him come home and win his place at Ulster before he talks about Ireland.

Kilo

myflipflops wrote: »

It's pretty much been accepted over the last 10 years that playing in England will be viewed as a negative with regard to your Ireland chances. Only Geordan Murphy and Simon Easterby has won a significant number of caps while based away from Ireland.

How is Kidney doing anything different to the previous Irish coaches and how is this a story?

The Roger Wilson argument is especially redundant when you have Heaslip, Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Leamy, Coghlan, Henry, Ruddock etc etc etc available in the backrow. Let him come home and win his place at Ulster before he talks about Ireland.

Not forgetting McLaughlin and Ryan :eek:

danthefan

myflipflops wrote: »

It's pretty much been accepted over the last 10 years that playing in England will be viewed as a negative with regard to your Ireland chances. Only Geordan Murphy and Simon Easterby has won a significant number of caps while based away from Ireland.

How is Kidney doing anything different to the previous Irish coaches and how is this a story?

The Roger Wilson argument is especially redundant when you have Heaslip, Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Leamy, Coghlan, Henry, Ruddock etc etc etc available in the backrow. Let him come home and win his place at Ulster before he talks about Ireland.

Wilson is a No.8, which Wallace, Jennings, Henry and Ruddock aren't. He's a better 8 than either Coughlan or Leamy. In my mind he's the third best available to Ireland after Heaslip and SOB.

mrboswell

Policy on selecting the Irish squad has been like that for ages - if you want to play for Ireland you need to be based in Ireland.

Best's time as an impact sub back when there were a lot of backrow injuries has come and gone.

CIARAN_BOYLE

danthefan wrote: »

Wilson is a No.8, which Wallace, Jennings, Henry and Ruddock aren't. He's a better 8 than either Coughlan or Leamy. In my mind he's the third best available to Ireland after Heaslip and SOB.

Do you really think that the 3rd best 8 who only plays 8 deserves selection.

I'd rather have Leamy in a squad since he can and has played 6, 7 and 8. Sure 6 is his best position but he can cover the others.

Wallace plays 7 mainly but has lined up this season at 6 and 8 and is able to cover those positions if needed. Ruddock is mainly a 6 but has played several times this season at 8. I'm not certain but I think 8 is Henry's best position but he plays at a similar standard at 6 and 7 too.

If you want to make the squad you need to be the best in your position or cover a couple of positions unless you play in a specialist position like hooker or scrumhalf or outhalf.

Jemo

danthefan wrote: »

Wilson is a No.8, which Wallace, Jennings, Henry and Ruddock aren't. He's a better 8 than either Coughlan or Leamy. In my mind he's the third best available to Ireland after Heaslip and SOB.

Why is SOB considered an 8 if Ruddock and Henry aren't? Henry has even played 8 at international level, and has played there more in prior seasons than SOB has. They're not as good as SOB but are both viable cover options as 3rd choice.

danthefan

Jemo wrote: »

Why is SOB considered an 8 if Ruddock and Henry aren't? Henry has even played 8 at international level, and has played there more in prior seasons than SOB has. They're not as good as SOB but are both viable cover options as 3rd choice.

Point for this and the post above: just because Henry has worn 8 in an international doesn't make him and international 8. The idea of Leamy as an international openside is an absolute joke.

Henry is clearly much better at either 6 or 7 than at 8.

Ruddock is nowhere near first choice for Leinster and is primarily a blindside.

Wilson is a proper 8 and much better there than all the players mentioned above.

Doesn't even mean I'd have him at the RWC and he wouldn't make an Ireland 22 but if Heaslip and SOB were out I would start Wilson. Kidney would rather start anyone else it seems, which is ridiculous.

Jemo

danthefan wrote: »

Ruddock is nowhere near first choice for Leinster and is primarily an openside.

Perhaps when he was in Wales, but at Leinster he has been considered exclusively as a 6/8. Think you may be mixing him up with Dom Ryan who is primarily an openside.

I personally don't think Leamy is a 7 to more than Magners standard, but outside of the starting options you need versatility and he does provide that. Henry gets a hard time but as said before, he provides more versatility than Wilson without a huge gap in class.

danthefan

Sorry meant to type blindside for Ruddock, mistake.

Hype710

Jemo wrote: »

I personally don't think Leamy is a 7 to more than Magners standard, but outside of the starting options you need versatility and he does provide that. Henry gets a hard time but as said before, he provides more versatility than Wilson without a huge gap in class.

This supposed versatility of Henry is down to the fact that he hasn't nailed down a position at Ulster whereas the 8 shirt is Wilson's at Northampton. It's like saying Jamie Heaslip only covers 8 when anyone can see he'd make a world class flanker too. Wilson could cover 6 and I hope to see him in the 50 man squad as I agree with Dan, he's our third best option at 8.

Monty Burnz

siltirocker wrote: »

He made no friends at the Churchill Cup. I hear and management were not impressed with his attitude. He captained them for 50 minutes of the last game but demanded to lift the Cup ahead of the actual captain after the tournament as he was 'a more senior player' on the international scene - leading to a few words im told.

This was Best?

Aidric

All of those big hits must have went to his head.

Jemo

Where is Best playing these days anyhow? Premiership or Championship?

conf101

Jemo wrote: »

Where is Best playing these days anyhow? Premiership or Championship?

Championship with Worcester. They'll most likely be promoted though

Stev_o

Jemo wrote: »

Where is Best playing these days anyhow? Premiership or Championship?

Championship heading back to the Premiership probably with promotion.

Donnielighto

Jemo wrote: »

Wilson would have been a good option to have around because for years we were light at number 8. But we have gone past the days of Wally covering 8, SOB is a better option there than Wilson is for example whilst Leamy, Muldoon and Coughlan can cover pretty well too. Then you have Ruddock and Henry who are both young and Ruddock in particular has the potential to have a long career in green. If Jamie was injured, I would personally move SOB to 8, and bring Jennings into the picture if Ferris was injured. If Jamie and SOB were injured then you would look at bringing him over as a specialist maybe but I reckon Kidney would probably just use Leamy. As for Downey, well when Fergus McFadden cannot make a matchday squad regularly for Ireland then how could you justify bringing him over? Theres a big gap in class between the two IMO. Maggs I read recently is still playing for some team in the championship though, was a good player in his time. Fair play to him for keeping going this long!

I wouldn't let Leamy pack a gearbag for a player nevermind start him, the lad is absolutely headless.

Donnielighto

myflipflops wrote: »

It's pretty much been accepted over the last 10 years that playing in England will be viewed as a negative with regard to your Ireland chances. Only Geordan Murphy and Simon Easterby has won a significant number of caps while based away from Ireland.

And the amazing Tommy Bowe! :D:D

myflipflops

danthefan wrote: »

Wilson is a No.8, which Wallace, Jennings, Henry and Ruddock aren't. He's a better 8 than either Coughlan or Leamy. In my mind he's the third best available to Ireland after Heaslip and SOB.

Fine, let him come back and prove that. It's a difficult thing to prove when you don't face your competition for the green jersey on a regular basis and when you miss out on training camps/squad get togethers due to club commitments. Whether you agree with it or not, moving to the Premiership is resigning yourself to not being an Ireland player. Wilson had to be aware of this when he left, especially playing in Irelands strongest area.

Donnielighto wrote: »

And the amazing Tommy Bowe! :D:D

Horrible omission from me.