A step in the right direction - dogs on the Luas

mosi

I'm not sure about the practicalities of hauling around pet carriers for my two little ones, but this is at least a step in the right direction.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/katie-leads-way-for-small-dogs-on-luas-2639243.html

Zoran and Bronagh Curtin, with pet dog Katie, aboard the Luas in Dublin. Damien Eagers
IT'S A dog's life for little Katie, who can now travel on the Luas thanks to a government minister. Her owners have got the ban on dogs travelling on the Luas trams overturned, the Irish Independent has learned, following an intervention by Transport Minister Leo Varadkar.
Bronagh and Zoran Curtin, from Milltown on Dublin's southside, were told their pet dog Katie -- a Jack Russell terrier cross -- could not travel on the Luas because of a by-law. Only guide dogs are allowed on the trams, they were told.
The couple complained to the Luas operators but were told the ban on Katie travelling on the Bride's Glen to St Stephen's Green route would remain in place.
Undeterred they contacted Mr Varadkar, who raised the issue with the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA), and the longstanding rules were changed. Katie can now use the Luas, as can other small dogs in appropriate dog carriers.
Hygiene
In a letter to the couple, RPA chief executive Frank Allen said the restrictions related to hygiene concerns "and the risk of pets frightening other passengers".
"However, in response to your request. . . we will authorise Luas customer service officers to allow carriage of small pets in appropriate carriers."
Mr Allen urged Ms Curtin to carry his letter with her every time they are bringing their dog on to the Luas.
He added: "It is difficult to define precisely what is meant by a 'small dog' or what would be frightening to other passengers, so Luas staff will continue to exercise discretion in deciding what is permitted on trams."
Expressing delight at the decision, Mrs Curtin (37) said: "We can now bring Katie on the Luas to go to the vet or for walks in the Phoenix Park or in other parks.
"We are now trying to get Irish Ferries to allow foot passengers carry on dogs.
"At the moment this only applies to people with cars who then bring the dogs to a specially allocated room."
- Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

sensibleken

i was wondering what the luas policy was. it should be all dogs allowed unless theyre barking or acting up on a luas. seems rediculous to expect them to carry carriers for them too. dont see what the size of the dog has to do with it

Zapperzy

A step in the right direction but seriously why only small dogs in carriers? Who here honestly carries their dog around in a carrier (with the exception of having a crate in a car). Dogs regardless of size should be allowed on and it should be the case that if the dog plays up or the owner can't control the dog they should be asked to get off, there should be no problem with allowing well behaved dogs regardless of size.

I can understand people being scared of dogs so maybe if they implemented a doggy area at the very bottom or top of the tram so people who are scared can stay at the opposite end. I understand what it's like to have a fear, Im TERRIFIED of wasps and bees and no matter how much people tell me they will not hurt me I still completely freak out and sprint away (I have even run out onto a road without looking to see if anything was coming when I seen a wasp on the footpath, I also stripped off my jumper in the middle of town when a friend told me there was one on my back, if I had only been wearing a t-shirt I probably would still have stripped it off ). So I can imagine what it would be like if someone got on the Luas with their friendly pet wasp, I would be terrified!

mosi

Yeah, in some ways it doesn't change anything as people can't be lugging carriers on with them, while big dogs remain discriminated against. Still, if they can go from no dogs to small dogs in carriers, hopefully they can make the step of small dogs in carriers to any well behaved dog on a lead.
I don't understand what the problem is, especially when you consider some of the characters that frequent the Luas. I think most people would be less scared of a dog than they would be of some of these types.
I've taken mine on it on a few occasions as there is usually nobody around to enforce the dog ban. These have been times when I have had to bring the dog (before I got the second one) with me somewhere and have had to choose between getting a Luas on the sly or paying for a taxi.
Once, one of the SWAT team types that do security informed me that dogs are not allowed but he let me stay on anyway. Other times, the security have ignored me altogether...I think they have other things to be worrying about than a quiet little dog in the corner.

Sigma Force

The Luas can be cramped so larger dogs might take up more room plus they might not want dogs having piddle accidents on it saying that at least it's a step in the right direction. They should allow dogs on the dart at least they're better behaved then a lot of the scumbags on it plus there's more room.

mosi

There seems to be conflicting information as to whether dogs are allowed on the DART or not. According to this they can (well, small dogs anyway).

http://www.irishrail.ie/home/faq.asp?faq_id=86#86

Guide dogs and Assistance dogs are permitted to travel on all Iarnród Éireann Intercity, Commuter and DART Services without restriction.
Small dogs can be carried free of charge in the passenger compartment of services as outlined above provided they travel on the owners lap. The dog must be kept on a lead at all times unless contained in a basket or in an appropriate container. Dogs and/or dogs in containers found to be occupying a seat will be liable to a penalty charge.

But according to this they can't
http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/customer_service/conditions_of_travel.asp

Dogs (with the exception of Guide Dogs) and bicycles are not conveyed on Suburban Rail trains. Prams must be folded. Packed folded bicycles will be conveyed.

I've had the dogs on the DART loads of times and there has never been a problem either going through the stations or on the train itself. At some stations, the staff have let me through the gate so I don't have to manouvre the dogs through the electronic ticket barriers, while I was sitting next to an Irish Rail worker one time on the DART and he was admiring mine and telling me all about his dogs. I would therefore think that the first quote is correct.
Regarding the Luas being packed, they could maybe exclude dogs from being on it at peak times to avoid that problem. I don't think many dog owners would go on it at busy times anyway...I try to avoid peak travel even without the dogs. As for accidents on the floor, well, certain people are just as capable of that, if not more so than a well behaved dog :eek:

mymo

I can't see what the problem is with dogs on buses, trains and trams etc. We have brought our dogs to the UK on the trains, and regularly see dogs on the train and bus over there, never seen a problem.
Carrying a carrier around Dublin seems a bit silly, and why only small dogs.
If the dogs are house trained, and well behaved, whats the problem?
I know some people are afraid of dogs, but just set a section of the train or bus aside for people with dogs. Works in other countries.

ISDW

I used to take my dogs on the train once a week in London, to the local pub for the pub quiz, get the train there (only one stop) then walk home. No problems ever, except the time they found human excrement on the station platform and wanted to eat it:( They were also very helpful during the quiz, coming up with good answers:D

As for them taking on Irish Ferries next, why don't they just use Stena line, they allow foot passengers to bring dogs in carriers. They are supposed to be put on the car deck, but we went over a couple of months ago and there was a woman in the passenger lounge with a dog, she had it in a carrier, but then let it out and it spent most of the crossing on her lap, didn't annoy anybody, or cause any trouble.:)

Chris_Heilong

Its a good first step, maybe limit the amount of dogs per Luas/train like they do for Buggies on buses. I do hope we become more dog friendly and think children in schools should be exposed to meeting dogs at an early age so they dont grow up witht the notion that dogs are dirty unhygienic animals, as long as their owners clean up any mess I dont see a hygiene issue.

sambuka41

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I do hope we become more dog friendly and think children in schools should be exposed to meeting dogs at an early age so they dont grow up witht the notion that dogs are dirty unhygienic animals

Thats a lovely idea. The only thing I'd say is that a child's biggest influence will be the family home so even if they get exposed to it in school if mammy and daddy hate dogs, the kids probably will too. But worth a try!! I know the DSPCA were planning on doing educational programs in schools around responsible ownership of animals.

It would be brilliant if Ireland were to become more animal friendly in general. I'd be afraid chancing the DART or Luas without the crate in case they refused on the return journey and I was stranded!! But it would make life so much easier to get the Luas to the park rather than drive,better for the environment and better use of a system that cost a lot of money and hassle to build in the first place.

Chris_Heilong

I too would fear being stranded, I saw that there was a Pet Taxi avalable but could not get an answer when I called them, mybe it is only a transport service that carries animals and not people, like I said I could not get any details but do feel we need a service like this, I just about made it to Howth last weekend with Titan but that was by asking Favours.

BMurr

Its bad enough having to negotiate dog crap on pavements and grass verges, being cooped up in a carriage with it would be a nightmare. If people could be trusted to not leave their dog poo on train that would be fine, but unlikely if the state of our countrys pavements is anything to go by.

Meteoric

BMurr wrote: »

Its bad enough having to negotiate dog crap on pavements and grass verges, being cooped up in a carriage with it would be a nightmare. If people could be trusted to not leave their dog poo on train that would be fine, but unlikely if the state of our countrys pavements is anything to go by.

No-one has ever had to negotiate my dogs crap, I clean up after him. Blaming all dog owners for the people who let dogs run free etc is unfair to responsible dog owners.
My dog has never soiled my car, has never soiled indoors except when sick (in which case I would not be travelling with him) He's the same breed as a lot of Guide dogs (a Lab) who don't soil public transport or businesses (unlike some people)
If I had to and could do I'd happily pay a full fare on public transport for him as he does take up a lot of space but I don't have that option. I ended up having to hire a car to get home for christmas one year as there was no other option when my car died.
I was once berated by someone when I was cleaning up after a previous dog when walking the prom, I was bent over cleaning it up when a person started yelling at me about all the people who don't pick it up and dogs should be banned from the prom. I got abuse for being a responsible dog owner, your post reminds me of that.

slashygoodness

BMurr wrote: »

Its bad enough having to negotiate dog crap on pavements and grass verges, being cooped up in a carriage with it would be a nightmare. If people could be trusted to not leave their dog poo on train that would be fine, but unlikely if the state of our countrys pavements is anything to go by.

So following your logic, any man or woman who has pied or puked on the street - a common occurance in some areas - should be banned from the trains/darts/luas, unless they have cleaned up after themselves...... well at least there would be a lot more room on the darts in the morning!:D

syklops

slashygoodness wrote: »

So following your logic, any man or woman who has pied or puked on the street - a common occurance in some areas - should be banned from the trains/darts/luas, unless they have cleaned up after themselves...... well at least there would be a lot more room on the darts in the morning!:D

Actually Bmurr's comments suggest to me that no humans should be allowed on public transport due to the small percentage of its population which puke/piss on buses/trams.

tk123

Ah I'd love to take my retriever out to Killiney Hill on the dart and save the long car journey but I don't think we'd get away with it unless I put a yellow vest on him! :P

BMurr

syklops wrote: »

Actually Bmurr's comments suggest to me that no humans should be allowed on public transport due to the small percentage of its population which puke/piss on buses/trams.

No, I have no problem with people bringing animals on trains. However if some people insist on leaving dog crap on trains and knowing how difficult it is to prosecute those who do this then the most cost effective method of stopping them is by an outright ban. Its all about weighing up the pros and cons. Banning people from trains would be just stupid as the trains are there for peoples convenience, so in that case the pros outweigh the cons to a massive degree.