Air Ambulance Ireland Facebook & Website

searescue

Website: http://www.airAmbulanceireland.net
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Air-Ambulance-Ireland/194419693911113

If you want it...

goldie fish

Do they have an aircraft?

searescue

Contract signed with Bond. Bond are subsidising the aircraft for first 6 months for the trial so to lessen the pressure on the "lift-off" of the service.

Should be in Ireland shortly for a few events before going into service.

Bang Bang

What is their Command & Control structure and how will they receive 'Emergency Calls'?

searescue

Bang Bang wrote: »

What is their Command & Control structure and how will they receive 'Emergency Calls'?

To be honest, I don't know a whole pile but they will be tasked the same as other air ambulances. When a call goes into ambo control, the call taker will decide if it's necessary to task the helicopter, the controller calls the Heli base and alerts of a tasking, pilot starts aircraft whilst medical crew gets the details.

Bang Bang

searescue wrote: »

To be honest, I don't know a whole pile but they will be tasked the same as other air ambulances. When a call goes into ambo control, the call taker will decide if it's necessary to task the helicopter, the controller calls the Heli base and alerts of a tasking, pilot starts aircraft whilst medical crew gets the details.

Don't take this as a personal attack searescue but these threads about volunteer/charity air ambulance's crop up now and then and the same questions are put regarding Command & Control structure and receiving emergency calls and no proof has ever come out that any agreement or otherwise is in place with the HSE National Ambulance Service.
I met a party of people collection cash from the public who were representing one of these, I'm not saying it's the same one in your link, but I asked some valid questions regarding deployment agreements and/or SOG's and they could not answer any of my questions, all they said was that their aircraft would be used by the NAS within a couple of months, that was two years ago, and still no sign of it! mmm where did all that money go?? Again searescue this is not aimed at you or your posted links but these are questions that will come up and donating people should be given answers.

The current system uses the Irish Air Corp, Irish Coast Guard and an Garda Síochána. The AGS helicopter has assisted in many search and rescue operations, although they don't have the facility to transport patients their night vision system and lights have been used with great success.
Other air ambulance's, ie; organ donorship etc is coordinated by the relevant transplant team and the designated Ambulance Officer and regional Command & Control Center.
Your description of how the calls will be selected is not the system currently in use and there are quite a few people in the above areas are not aware of any agreement or SOG to use any Air Ambulance other than the Services I've mentioned.

ivabiggon

ye surly they have to be tied in or affiliated to some statutory organisation other wise they are just a faster private ambulance service.
and are they going to have staff sitting around 24/7 waiting for that call, if so this is a serious waste of sponsorship funds when their is an air ambulance in the form of the coast guard and the air corps...The Air Corps flew almost 2,300 missions last year, including 69 Air Ambulance Missions.... 69 only, so is this this air ambulance going pluck cases out of the sky. it's a great idea and all and it's well over due but somehow i get the feeling that it hasn't got the full thought through that it should have gotten.
heli on the ground costs money, not as much as in the air, and just having one means service hours for one aircraft which mean grounding it for a period.
sorry i just cant help thinking within a year we will be seeing a withdrawal of this service unfortunately

searescue

Bang Bang wrote: »

Don't take this as a personal attack searescue but these threads about volunteer/charity air ambulance's crop up now and then and the same questions are put regarding Command & Control structure and receiving emergency calls and no proof has ever come out that any agreement or otherwise is in place with the HSE National Ambulance Service.
I met a party of people collection cash from the public who were representing one of these, I'm not saying it's the same one in your link, but I asked some valid questions regarding deployment agreements and/or SOG's and they could not answer any of my questions, all they said was that their aircraft would be used by the NAS within a couple of months, that was two years ago, and still no sign of it! mmm where did all that money go?? Again searescue this is not aimed at you or your posted links but these are questions that will come up and donating people should be given answers.

The current system uses the Irish Air Corp, Irish Coast Guard and an Garda Síochána. The AGS helicopter has assisted in many search and rescue operations, although they don't have the facility to transport patients their night vision system and lights have been used with great success.
Other air ambulance's, ie; organ donorship etc is coordinated by the relevant transplant team and the designated Ambulance Officer and regional Command & Control Center.
Your description of how the calls will be selected is not the system currently in use and there are quite a few people in the above areas are not aware of any agreement or SOG to use any Air Ambulance other than the Services I've mentioned.

No offence taken, good answer.

savagecabbages

Bang Bang wrote: »

The current system uses the Irish Air Corp, Irish Coast Guard and an Garda Síochána.

But none of the above organisations have helicopters fitted out like an ambulance to attend a medical emergency, an EMS helicopter.
The 69 air corps air ambulance missions were all (open to correction?!?) patient transfers, rather than transferring patients from the accident to hospital. We don't know how many opportunities for this type of service there were, but I'd guess there were many more cases where a helicopter would have been the best way to get someone to hospital.

Theres certainly a need for such a service in Ireland, particularly in the more remote areas of the country. But this service seems to be all publicity so far without anything coming of it.

I hope it all works out and a something good comes of all this.

maglite

savagecabbages wrote: »

But none of the above organisations have helicopters fitted out like an ambulance to attend a medical emergency,

The coast guard and Aer Corp do?

ivabiggon

http://www.flyinginireland.com/news/IAC03.JPG

here a picture of the kitted out AW139 air ambulance.

savagecabbages

would they have the same on-board equipment as a dedicated EMS chopper?
its a dedicated service that's lacking. the AC do a great job when called upon, the Meath school bus crash in 2005 being aprime example.
let's say theAC are off doin army ops, and the coast guard otherwise engaged, there's a massive gap for several hours.
It'd be great or for the AC to have a 139 dedicated to the role, however impractical/costly that may be...

goldie fish

savagecabbages wrote: »

would they have the same on-board equipment as a dedicated EMS chopper?
its a dedicated service that's lacking. the AC do a great job when called upon, the Meath school bus crash in 2005 being aprime example.
let's say theAC are off doin army ops, and the coast guard otherwise engaged, there's a massive gap for several hours.
It'd be great or for the AC to have a 139 dedicated to the role, however impractical/costly that may be...

Coastguard heli plucking an injured crewman from a cargo ship 200 miles off the west coast have to have every bit of equipment an ambulance would have. Head injuries, severed limbs, compound fractures, heart attacks, strokes, burns, everything you would experience on land, with the added fun of being an hour or more from the nearest doctor, never mind hospital.
Air Corps helis can be fitted with the lifeport system in 20 minutes. If there is a major incident, that isn't long.

savagecabbages

anyone know how many EMS missions the coast guard/AC attended last year?

I don't doubt their abilities once called upon, but why aren't they being used?
do the coast guard even have any mandate to perform EMS?
AFIK the s-61 doesn't carry life support equipment cpmpatable to a dedicated machine either. and its massive.

Bang Bang

savagecabbages wrote: »

But none of the above organisations have helicopters fitted out like an ambulance to attend a medical emergency, an EMS helicopter.
The 69 air corps air ambulance missions were all (open to correction?!?) patient transfers, rather than transferring patients from the accident to hospital. We don't know how many opportunities for this type of service there were, but I'd guess there were many more cases where a helicopter would have been the best way to get someone to hospital.

Theres certainly a need for such a service in Ireland, particularly in the more remote areas of the country. But this service seems to be all publicity so far without anything coming of it.

I hope it all works out and a something good comes of all this.

Both Air Corp and Coast Guard have lifted patients from accident scenes to hospital.

savagecabbages wrote: »

would they have the same on-board equipment as a dedicated EMS chopper?
its a dedicated service that's lacking. the AC do a great job when called upon, the Meath school bus crash in 2005 being aprime example.
let's say theAC are off doin army ops, and the coast guard otherwise engaged, there's a massive gap for several hours.
It'd be great or for the AC to have a 139 dedicated to the role, however impractical/costly that may be...

The Irish Air Corp were used in the Meath bus crash, they had NAS paramedics onboard.
Nobody is arguing that there's no way a dedicated HEMS should be used, but that too may be tied up with call when major incidents occur.

But the question is, How many Emergency Departments in this country have the ability/facilities in place to facilitate a full time HEMS flying in a number of times a day? Not too many.

savagecabbages wrote: »

anyone know how many EMS missions the coast guard/AC attended last year?

I don't doubt their abilities once called upon, but why aren't they being used?
do the coast guard even have any mandate to perform EMS?
AFIK the s-61 doesn't carry life support equipment cpmpatable to a dedicated machine either. and its massive.

They are being used.
Of course the Coast Guard have an EMS mandate, they are crewed by PHECC registered Paramedics and turn out to 999/112 emergency calls.

Hooch

Bang Bang wrote: »

They are being used.
Of course the Coast Guard have an EMS mandate, they are crewed by PHECC registered Paramedics and turn out to 999/112 emergency calls.

They are being used in certain areas, for certain pre set criteria, however IrCG heli's are not an EMS service and do not want to be. Infact up to two years ago they refused most requests. They now respond to certain incidents, but at the discretion of the Director and MRCC

(That being said yes they are top of their game in regards training etc. It cant be said they have all the equipment that an ambulance has but they are not far from it. A top class bunch)

Hooch

Bang Bang wrote: »

But the question is, How many Emergency Departments in this country have the ability/facilities in place to facilitate a full time HEMS flying in a number of times a day? Not too many.

A point I use more often than not.....Cork is a centre of excellence, however it has no heli pad. A heli must land at the airport and the patient must be transferred by road ambulance to CUH. That means a heli transfer from an RTC requires a road ambulance at the scene AND one at the airport.

Ireland is just not ready for a dedicated air ambulance and if it ever does happen, in my humble opinion it should be fully or partly state funded and integrated into the NAS.

Bang Bang

NGA wrote: »

They are being used in certain areas, for certain pre set criteria, however IrCG heli's are not an EMS service and do not want to be. Infact up to two years ago they refused most requests. They now respond to certain incidents, but at the discretion of the Director and MRCC

(That being said yes they are top of their game in regards training etc. It cant be said they have all the equipment that an ambulance has but they are not far from it. A top class bunch)

True, they have an ES mandate as the Irish Coast Guard. But as members of the public we are lucky that some of their crew are registered Paramedics.

I might just add that these threads usually end up in the same old debate, it starts out as a thread linking to or mentioning a charity air ambulance who states they have 'official' backing in Ireland, we've yet to see any proof whatsoever from ANY charity air ambulance that they have the backing of the HSE, DOE and Dep't of the Marine. So where are the donations going? People who donate to these causes have, in my opinion, entitlement to ask where their donation has gone.

I don't believe that anybody would be against a full time HEMS but there is so much to be done, for example, very few ED's in Ireland can facilitate a helicopter and that would be a major stumbling block.

Hooch

Bang Bang wrote: »

might just add that these threads usually end up in the same old debate

I agree and I often question where ALL that money goes........

savagecabbages

again I don't doubt that patients are lifted to hospital, I'm just wondering how often the assets get used, and what the reasons for them not being usedas often as may be the case with a dedicated organisation.

When I asked if the coast guard have a mandate, I meant are they considered an EMS asset by the national ambulance service, or would the NAS first have to get onto the coast guard who then cal on CHC?

as for how many emergency departments can handle a chopper, I don't know. I'd imagine airlifted patients are only intended to be taken to the countries best equipped departements, those at regional hospitals or in some of those in Dublin. again no idea how many can cope, but it wouldn't be a requirement of all depts

stevie06

Cork used to have a Helipad that could land the S-61, but alas they converted it to a A&E dept or a Car park, a real pity!

the Coastguard helicopters can be requested by anyone through the MRCC in Dublin, but again their primary role is to provide SAR cover for Irelands SAR region, which is a big patch of Water! so they can't always respond to every call as it would effect their primary role.

the Winchman and operators are Phecc Reg Paras.

i think the way forward is to get a HEMS bankrolled by a large Corp, like the London HEMS that are sponsored by Virgin as well as other companies. it is a massive ask to fund a charity these days as people can't afford it, and it is even harder in a country the size of ours!

goldie fish

In CUH, the recent arrangement for severe cases is rather than landing at the airport and transdferring by road, they land in a nearby school Playing Pitch and transfer the shorter remaining distance by road.
Still not satisfactory of course.

searescue

NGA wrote: »

I agree and I often question where ALL that money goes........

Dangerous enough question to ask NGA. If you e-mail them - as many people have done, and are entitled to. They will give you the details of their accountants and auditors.

I'm aware that there is suspicion - especially after what happened to the, now closed down, Irish Air Ambulance ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8141331.stm )

Air Ambulance Ireland seem to be doing well. As for wages (the CEO is now on half wage - and I've seen it - nothing impressive).

The expenditure is very little - the small wage, directors travelling expenses (very little too), postage and that's about it. The office staff are volunteers, as are the website administrators. They lodge as often as they can as they want to build up enough money to keep it in the air for a while when it starts in case the donations don't start covering it enough, quickly enough. It makes sense really.

Goonerdee

There can never be too many life saving services in one area. If this charity raises money through voluntary contributions and can provide a valuable service it should be welcomed and used alongside other services.

TylerIE

Goonerdee wrote: »

There can never be too many life saving services in one area. If this charity raises money through voluntary contributions and can provide a valuable service it should be welcomed and used alongside other services.

I beg to differ. While I would like to see an air ambulance in Ireland at the future, I wonder can we really utilise it to its full extent anyway.

Anyway if the money used for fundraising in each community was instead invested in community education, injury prevention, first aid training and where appropriate community first aid provision (basic first aid equipment and AEDs) it probably would have a greater impact in the short - medium term.

Hating to compare but its a bit like the "White elephants" seen in Africa. Fancy Ambulances and equipment in prisons yet nobody trained, ambulances donated from the EU that are suitable for EU roads but not for African lanes, old defibs etc from the NHS being sent over but nobody trained to use them. Everybody sees a shiny defib or ambulance but its effectively useless.

In the medium term a Voluntary run Air Ambulance would probably be similar here. Its difficult enough to get Community/ Emergency First Responders dispatched to HSE Calls, so some chance of having a voluntary helicopter used efficiently, esp when it has so few landing choices.

savagecabbages

I suppose the hospitals aren't prioritising helipads due to the fact that there isn't a HEMS there to use them...
Whats the point in having them if they aren't going to be used.

stevie06 wrote: »

i think the way forward is to get a HEMS bankrolled by a large Corp

Probably the best solution for Ireland, possibly not a big enough population to support a charity, but there are surely several companies large enough to support a HEMS, even by working in co-operation with another company sharing the costs.

EMSCHAP

When the new SAR contract was put out to tender, an EMS response was specifically included by the government in it's list of requirements and CHC have since ensured that their winch operators are trained to the PHECC paramedic standard so that they can fulfill that role. The Waterford based S61 has performed a number of EMS tasks as was seen in RTE's excellent R117 series. The landing pad at Waterford Regional Hospital does not accomodate the S61 because it's massive downdraft has caused damage to nearby windows etc. They usually land at a nearby rugby pitch and transfer the patient the short distance by road. However both types of Aer Corps helicopter land there, both on inter hospital transfer calls and for training.