Pregnant womans rights regarding redundancy

bigbadcon

Hi folks,


My wife is about 6 weeks pregnant and works in a sales job that means she is driving around in her car for at least 7 hours a day every day.

She has approached her employer to see if they could offer her redundancy as she is there about 10 years.

The employer has come back and said that they cant offer her redundancy because they wouldn't be able to justify it as they would need to hire someone else.

They said that they would be able to offer her a "handshake" which would be based on a contract that they would do up.

Basically the contract would mean her reaching her sales figures over the next 3 months (unrealistic figures for a fully healthy sales person i might add) and training in other sales team (at the same time )to cover her area.

The problem is that there is no way she can sit in the car all day long with a bump and possible morning sickness etc. I think they are being very unreasonable and I think they are trying to force her to leave herself which will save them any money.

They don't want to have a sales person who cant do their job properly between now and the birth and then will be out for 6 months maternity leave.

I'm wondering would the best move be to tell them that she cant carry this out and they will have to give her another job to do in the office maybe where she would be more comfortable?

Any advice would be appreciated..

bigbadcon

MagicMarker

Why can't she do her job? She's pregnant, not dying. I know plenty of women who have worked similar jobs while pregnant.

bigbadcon

She cant do her job because she has to sit in a car for 7 hours a day.

Its ok making small trips in a car when you are pregnant but when she is further into her pregnancy she will have a larger bump it will be very uncomfortable sitting with a seatbelt strapped around her tummy.

Not to mention morning sickness.

Evonatron

Health and safety leave

An employer should carry out separate risk assessments in relation to pregnant employees and those who have recently given birth or are breastfeeding. If there are particular risks, these should be either removed or the employee moved away from them. If neither of these options is possible, the employee should be given health and safety leave from work which may continue up to the beginning of maternity leave. During health and safety leave, employers must pay employees their normal wages for the first 3 weeks, after which Health and Safety Benefit may be paid. The Health and Safety Authority website has a list of Pregnant at Work FAQs.

HTH!

seamus

But that's her job.

You're basically accusing the employer of being unfair by expecting her to continue to do her job for a reasonable amount of time into her pregnancy (the first half of it).

The employer appears to be giving a very reasonable offer as far as I can see. In effect, your wife is looking to leave her job with a big payout. Her employer is asking her to work extra hard for 3 months, bring in great figures, and then they will give her a big payout and let her leave on good terms. Most people made redundant spend 6 months working extra hard to try and save their jobs and then get a minimum payout at the end.

bigbadcon

seamus wrote: »

But that's her job.

You're basically accusing the employer of being unfair by expecting her to continue to do her job for a reasonable amount of time into her pregnancy (the first half of it).

The employer appears to be giving a very reasonable offer as far as I can see. In effect, your wife is looking to leave her job with a big payout. Her employer is asking her to work extra hard for 3 months, bring in great figures, and then they will give her a big payout and let her leave on good terms. Most people made redundant spend 6 months working extra hard to try and save their jobs and then get a minimum payout at the end.

Yes but this "work hard for the next three months" she cant physically do she has to sit in a car all day to do this visiting customers to get orders.

She is a high risk pregnancy already due to kidney problems (which the employer knows about) and I think they are being unfair by trying to run her into the ground before she leaves to get every last cent they can out of her with no regard for her or the babies health.

seamus

bigbadcon wrote: »

I think they are being unfair by trying to run her into the ground before she leaves to get every last cent they can out of her with no regard for her or the babies health.

No, they're giving her a reasonable deal. She's asking to be paid to quit, a golden handshake, as it were. I think it's a fair deal that she brings in extra figures for her employer in order to qualify for this bonus payment.

She still has the option of leaving without any bonus payment. She won't have to work herself into the ground then.

Her other option is to not quit at all and find out what her rights are vis-a-vis being reassigned to other work or allowed to go on long-term illness leave before her maternity leave.

Mrs OBumble

The poster who mentioned the risk assessment is correct: this needs to be done, and needs to take into account any medical problems that may make the pregnancy more difficult. She needs to be moved away from any real risks that there are, and if alternative duties are not available that may mean she'll be out of work, without a "handshake" of any kind.

She doesn't have a "bump" yet, and won't for some months. Many, many women drive until a long way into their pregnancies. And you've not said that she has morning sickness (many women don't get it), just that it's a possibility.

I'm also wonder how exactly it's possible to do any work, and be driving for seven hours each day: the country isn't THAT big, and even assuming she's working 9 hours each day, that'd only be two hours actual work.

Mr. Loverman

I don't mean to sound harsh but your wife should have discussed this with her employer before getting pregnant.

Honestly I think you're being a bit unreasonable expecting her employer to pay her to leave.

bigbadcon

JustMary wrote: »

She doesn't have a "bump" yet, and won't for some months. Many, many women drive until a long way into their pregnancies. And you've not said that she has morning sickness (many women don't get it), just that it's a possibility.

We'll she has been a size 8 for the last 10 years and is now fitting into a size 10 over the last 2 months so im guessing it has something got to do with the pregnancy.

JustMary wrote: »

I'm also wonder how exactly it's possible to do any work, and be driving for seven hours each day: the country isn't THAT big, and even assuming she's working 9 hours each day, that'd only be two hours actual work.

She spends 7 hours a day in her car, She often has to process orders through her phone or call the office but she is based out on the road which means sitting in the driver seat.

The amount of "work" she does in the car is irrelevant. The fact is that she spends 7 hours a day in her car.

Also the country is THAT big... you dont have to be driving in a straight line. You could easily spent 7 hours of your day driving around to multiple place in the one county.

bigbadcon

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I don't mean to sound harsh but your wife should have discussed this with her employer before getting pregnant.

Honestly I think you're being a bit unreasonable expecting her employer to pay her to leave.

Unfortunately getting pregnant is not always that easy so it wouldn't have made sense to tell them before she got pregnant as we wouldn't have known when she actually would have gotten pregnant.

I did mention in my original post the following so im not expecting them to do anything ...

"I'm wondering would the best move be to tell them that she cant carry this out and they will have to give her another job to do in the office maybe where she would be more comfortable?"


All im asking is what our options are that is all.

seamus

bigbadcon wrote: »

All im asking is what our options are that is all.

Discuss it with her doctor. If her doctor feels that the nature of her work presents a risk to her health during the pregnancy, given the complications, then her employer has a duty to give her alternative work or send her on Health and Safety Leave, as detailed above.

On the other hand, if her work won't present any additional risk, but will simply be uncomfortable, there's no obligation on the employer to do anything. Though given how reasonable they've been so far, I'd be surprised if she couldn't work out alternative working hours or something similar.

On H&S Leave, she is entitled to be paid for the first 3 weeks, but after that she have to apply for H&S Benefit. The H&S Leave can last until she goes on maternity leave without affecting her employment rights.

dave1982

Don't know a whole lot about this,but imo if she is a high risk pregnancy why is she even working?

If her health is at risk from doing her job. Can she not get a doctors cert stating its unsafe for her to work in the car all day,and claim illness benefit untill she is fit to return to work.

Redundancy is out as her job is still there.Can't understand why the are offering her a "handshake".

Is she planning to return to work after the child or planning on be a full time mother?

boogerballs

OP - You said you wife is 6 weeks pregnant

"My wife is about 6 weeks pregnant and works in a sales job that means she is driving around in her car for at least 7 hours a day every day."

Then said for the past two months due to being pregnant she has gone from a 10 to a 12

"We'll she has been a size 8 for the last 10 years and is now fitting into a size 10 over the last 2 months so im guessing it has something got to do with the pregnancy"

Did you mean to say 6 MONTHS in your original post, as this would put a different angle on things??

bigbadcon

boogerballs wrote: »

OP - You said you wife is 6 weeks pregnant

"My wife is about 6 weeks pregnant and works in a sales job that means she is driving around in her car for at least 7 hours a day every day."

Then said for the past two months due to being pregnant she has gone from a 10 to a 12

"We'll she has been a size 8 for the last 10 years and is now fitting into a size 10 over the last 2 months so im guessing it has something got to do with the pregnancy"

Did you mean to say 6 MONTHS in your original post, as this would put a different angle on things??

I never said she was a size 12?? Read it again

She has gone from a size 8 to a 10.

I don't understand what your point is?

Mr. Loverman

bigbadcon wrote: »

I never said she was a size 12?? Read it again

She has gone from a size 8 to a 10.

I don't understand what your point is?

His point is we would maybe understand your wife being uncomfortable driving all day if she is 6 months pregnant.

Personal question but am I right in assuming she has lost a few pregnancies hence the overreaction?

boogerballs

My point is you said she is 6 weeks pregnant but has been getting bigger for two months (8 weeks - do the math). I dont think she will have gone up two dress sizes in the first 6 weeks simply due to being pregnant!

Also, I am not trying to knock you on this - my other half is also pregnant at the moment so I completely understand your concern but I think you need to look at this from the employers p.o.v. They are going to lose a staff member which is a headache in itself and said staff member is looking for a substantial lump sum to go.

bigbadcon

boogerballs wrote: »

My point is you said she is 6 weeks pregnant but has been getting bigger for two months (8 weeks - do the math). I dont think she will have gone up two dress sizes in the first 6 weeks simply due to being pregnant!

.

I dont want to argue about dress sizes but going from an 8 to a 10 is one dress size.

By the sounds of it Mr. Loverman and boogerballs are both male like myself so its kind of unfair to assume that a woman who is 6 weeks pregnant shouldnt be uncomfortable in her car.

Every pregnancy is different and every woman experiences different symptoms and my wife is not lying when she tells me she is very uncomfortable when sitting in a car all day long.

This is the usual symptoms around week 6

The reason I suspect her employer is being sneaky is because they have done this sort of thing with people in the past and are very ruthless when it comes to their employees.

I know the hand shake deal is gonna be something that is impossible to achieve as that is how they operate that's why im wondering what our rights are in advance of them producing this contract.

Mr. Loverman

bigbadcon wrote: »

The reason I suspect her employer is being sneaky is because they have done this sort of thing with people in the past and are very ruthless when it comes to their employees.

I'm sorry but I'm still not getting this.

What exactly is her employer doing wrong? From the sounds of it they simply expect her to do her job, and have been very generous offering her a potential golden handshake.

You do realise it is completely unreasonable to expect an employer to give you money to quit your job?

bigbadcon

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm still not getting this.

What exactly is her employer doing wrong? From the sounds of it they simply expect her to do her job, and have been very generous offering her a potential golden handshake.

You do realise it is completely unreasonable to expect an employer to give you money to quit your job?

Trust be this "golden handshake" is going to be a deal that suits them so they dont have to change her working conditions which would put them out and then hire someone temporarily over her maternity leave.

The amount they will offer will be absolutely tiny and it will be based on unachievable targets that's why I had asked what our rights/options are in this case.

Mr. Loverman

bigbadcon wrote: »

Trust be this "golden handshake" is going to be a deal that suits them so they dont have to change her working conditions which would put them out and then hire someone temporarily over her maternity leave.

The amount they will offer will be absolutely tiny and it will be based on unachievable targets that's why I had asked what our rights/options are in this case.

Of course it will be a deal that suits them, companies are not charities.

The fact that they are offering anything is a bonus.

Shelflife

Uncomfortable isnt the same as unsafe, as long as the company provides a safe working environment then they dont "owe" you anything.

they are under no obligation to give you anything and are well within their rights to expect a full days work.

Its bizarre really that people expect something for nothing.

dellas1979

When I first read the post, I was under the pretense that the employer had done something wrong.

But they havent - however, I do sympathise that she might well feel uncomfortable driving around all day, so as has been said, she needs to approach the employer and ask for a risk assessment in order to possibly get a desk job. But they are in no way under any obligation to give her redundancy like that, esp as she is there 10 years and would be expecting a fair amount.

gandalf

First off no employer can offer redundancy when the job in question is not being discontinued and a new employee has to be brought into it.

I work in Sales and tbh your wifes employer is being very accommodating indeed. They are setting up a deal where she will get a golden handshake in three months so she can leave. They of course are well within their rights to ask that she hits her targets within this time period and that she ensures whoever replaces her is up to speed to ensure the organisation is able to continue to service its customers without a loss of revenue.

Yes you are right she will get uncomfortable and tbh I doubt at the later stages of pregnancy she will be able to work from the car 7 hours a day. When my wife hit 7 months pregnant last year she could hardly even sit at her desk.

I suggest as others have that your wife consults her doctor and if indeed being tied to a car is a risk to the pregnancy and to your wifes health that you then put this data in front of the employer to offer an alternative position that does not put her under as much strain.

Good luck with the pregnancy, the hard work really begins after month nine Make sure you gorge yourself on sleep !!!

Irish_Elect_Eng

I am afraid that I must agree with the general sentiment of the other posters.

A good friend of mine, a medical rep, drove during her whole pregnancy, which was not a simple one. She was tired and often sore at the end of the day, but she enjoyed her job and wanted to continue after her maternity leave.

Has your wife considered taking a leave of absence? It seems to me that her employer is reasonable and may consider this?

But I know that everyone is different, so I hope that this works out for your wife.

maglite

So 6 weeks preggers atm.
Work for an extra 3 months, That brings her up to 4 1/2 months pregnant.

Thats not really that far along tbh. The employer is being VERY fair offering her a golden handshake.

Was it not the way you did't tell anyone you were pregnant till you were 3 months along or has that died out? There would be very little if any physical impediment to a female 4 months pregnant driving around imo

Remouad

What a wonderful world it would be if you could get paid for quitting....

angelfire9

maglite wrote: »

So 6 weeks preggers atm.
Work for an extra 3 months, That brings her up to 4 1/2 months pregnant.

Thats not really that far along tbh. The employer is being VERY fair offering her a golden handshake.

Was it not the way you did't tell anyone you were pregnant till you were 3 months along or has that died out? There would be very little if any physical impediment to a female 4 months pregnant driving around imo

+1


6 weeks+3 months = 18 weeks
To quote your own link

Most women will gain roughly 5 pounds during their first trimester of pregnancy,

5lbs in the first 13 weeks or so

By pregnancy week 18 you can probably feel your uterus just at or just below your navel. If you are having trouble differentiating your uterus from the rest of your belly don't worry. Your doctor is skilled in detecting subtle changes and the size and shape of your uterus, and may even allow you to feel your uterus along with them. You definitely have a little tummy to show off and may have gained up to 15 pounds by pregnancy week 18.

18 weeks is not exactly massive bump territory either

Some women don't get a decent bump til they are at least 6 months especially for the first pregnancy

On my first I didn't get a bump at all til I was about 36 weeks

You are over reacting IMHO and i say that as a woman who's boss was on the phone to me while I was in labour!!!!!!!!
I know the difference between an unreasonable boss and a reasonable one
I'd much rather be in a car for 7 hours a day than a shop assistant for example who could be on her feet all day

Is it the risk of an RTA that has you freaked by any chance???

iwishihadaname

Here's the facts from the General Application Regulations 2007 that will apply in your wife's case.

When the employer is informed of the pregnancy they are required to carry out a risk assessment to assess any agent, process or working condition that will that will damage either her safety or health or that of her developing child. An agent would apply in your wife's case, which includes movements and postures, traveling, wither inside or outside place of work, mental and other physical burdens connected with the activity of the employer.

Having assessed the risks, the employer must take preventative measures to ensure the health and safety of the mother and unborn.

If preventative measures are not adequate, the employer must provide the mother with alternative work or else assist the mother in obtaining health and safety leave under Section 18 of the Maternity Protection Act 1994. The employer cannot terminate employment during this leave.

If the employer doesn't do this you'll have to complain to the Rights Commissioner within six months.

Now no more fighting over what size your wife is, get the employer to do a risk assessment and go from there!

[Jackass]

She shouldn't be treated any different than a non-pregnant woman or a man.

iwishihadaname

[Jackass] wrote: »

She shouldn't be treated any different than a non-pregnant woman or a man.

Yeah but regardless there's laws in place to protect pregnant women if they're at risk in the workplace.

bigbadcon

Despite what anyone thinks we are not looking for anything for free. I was just wondering what our options are.

If you worked in a job that was way underpaid/seriously overworked for over 10 years you would see if you could get redundancy too before you were considering leaving.

I think you would be an idiot not to ask.

My wife has had constant kidney trouble all her life and putting her health or the babies health at risk is not an option.

Jackass, im wondering if your views would be so unsympathetic if you were in my shoes or maybe you would send your wife out and tell her to stop complaining and to hell with her health.

Thanks to those with helpful replies. I will take your advice onboard.

Mr. Loverman

bigbadcon wrote: »

If you worked in a job that was way underpaid/seriously overworked for over 10 years you would see if you could get redundancy too before you were considering leaving.

I think you would be an idiot not to ask.

I'm not sure you really understand what redundancy is. From your previous posts you seem quite angry they aren't offering it to her, which doesn't really make any sense.

Regardless, best of luck.

maglite

bigbadcon wrote: »

what our options are.

You askewd about RIGHTS for making a pregnant woman redundant, this is not the same as exploring options.
Options

• Take the employers gracious offer.
• Work till maternity leave.
• Quit