Heres a question

jett

Having always been a bit of a lateral thinker that approches things from various directions ( theres a conundrum)
I got to thinking.
All this effort over getting digital through a terrestial system?
We have satelites sitting up there with capacity.
Why not just put the lot on satelite?
Surely it would have cost less and been very simple to do?
Or is it commercial pressure ( ie sky) that runs the government?

Apogee

jett wrote: »

Having always been a bit of a lateral thinker that approches things from various directions ( theres a conundrum)
I got to thinking.
All this effort over getting digital through a terrestial system?
We have satelites sitting up there with capacity.
Why not just put the lot on satelite?
Surely it would have cost less and been very simple to do?
Or is it commercial pressure ( ie sky) that runs the government?

If you do a search, you'll see this has been discussed numerous times before. The two principal arguments against delivery wholly by satellite are:

1. Loss of control - transmission infrastructure is controlled by foreign company e.g. Eutelsat, SES.
2. Robustness/Backup - meteor strikes satellite and entire network goes down.

You have the additional practical issue of people living in areas where they have no LOS or can't erect a dish. Though you equally have people living in areas not covered by DTT. The proposed Saorview/Saorsat plan should cover all situations and provide "full" coverage.

The Cush

Discussed previously - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67639115

Deputy Jimmy Devins: I welcome all the witnesses and will be brief. Although I am not into technology in a big way, if I understand this correctly, the stopping of analogue transmission, which is one system, will result in its replacement by two systems, namely, DTT and satellite. The advantage of using the latter is to cover the 2% to 3% who will not be covered by DTT. Why not simply use the single system of satellite transmission to provide 100% coverage? Why must one go down the DTT route?
...

[not answered directly but Bob Collins did make the following reply later]

Mr. Bob Collins: ... Throughout the debate on this issue during the past eight or ten years, a key underlying point of public policy has been that the State should have an Irish-owned transmission system to carry the four national channels, one that would not be dependent on external economic circumstances or an external force. Hence the necessity of a domestic transmission system. The satellite option does everything mentioned by Mr. Hayes, namely, extending coverage and providing a back-up, but one could not dispense with DTT by virtue of the availability of satellite because, in the last analysis, the satellite option is not within the control of the State.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/MAJ/2010/07/14/00003.asp

jett

i won't even suggest our own satelite:D
If the satelites get taken out we are still in trouble but at least we can watch local telly if there is any international telly or communications left to feed on.
Just a thought, no telly then we might actually do domething ourselves rather than watch others. 90% is rubish anyway:)

Mr. Rabbit

I stilll cannot work out why, Saorsat cannot be on Freesat (but blocked for the UK and the rest of Europe) along with the proposed Saorview Lite NI service (but blocked for the rest of the UK). I assume this is technically feasable ? After all, they can block specific sports programmes on the RTE Sky service in NI.

Or is the reason it wont happen because of cost ? Would it cost more than £70 million (euro ?) to do the above ?

I see on other threads RTE are now refusing to say anything about Saorsat. They're keeping stum for some odd reason

Sam Russell

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I stilll cannot work out why, Saorsat cannot be on Freesat (but blocked for the UK and the rest of Europe) along with the proposed Saorview Lite NI service (but blocked for the rest of the UK). I assume this is technically feasable ? After all, they can block specific sports programmes on the RTE Sky service in NI.

Or is the reason it wont happen because of cost ? Would it cost more than £70 million (euro ?) to do the above ?

I see on other threads RTE are now refusing to say anything about Saorsat. They're keeping stum for some odd reason

The reason Sky can block programmes is because they have encryption. Freesat does not have encryption, which is why we can get it for free. The current beams from Astra is too big to reduce coverage to just Ireland, and rites holders want more money if the programmes from RTE can reach such a wide audience (even if they are only watched in Ireland).

Basically, Astra would cost more, rites issues would cost a whole lot more.

The Cush

jett wrote: »

i won't even suggest our own satelite:D

Search the boards for "Atlantic Satellites" and "Jim Stafford"

The Cush

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I stilll cannot work out why, Saorsat cannot be on Freesat (but blocked for the UK and the rest of Europe) along with the proposed Saorview Lite NI service (but blocked for the rest of the UK). I assume this is technically feasable ?

Asked and answered many times here, e.g. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69685607

Encryption required - no encryption on Freesat.
Freesat = large satellite footprint, not encrypting would make them available to any free-to-air satellite receiver within the footprint. Saorsat will use a satellite with a much tighter footprint on Ireland and higher frequency than normal satellite TV which allows them to broadcast FTA.

This from RTÉ's Conor Hayes last July

Mr. Conor Hayes: ...
Another innovation by RTE is promotion of its satellite option, Saorsat. Some members of the committee will be familiar with the equivalent UK service, Freesat. The BBC, ITV and a number of other companies have put their services on one of the wideband Astra satellites. The services are broadcast unencrypted, or “in the clear” as we call it. The trouble with those wideband satellites is that they have a very big footprint. If RTE were to be put up on a wideband satellite, its services would be in the clear to the UK, France, Holland and many other countries. One might ask why that should not be done, to which I would respond that we do not have the resources to purchase the rights to enable us to broadcast into those countries. We buy programming that allows us to broadcast to 4.5 million people. We do not have the money to broadcast to 100 million people. Therefore, the option taken by the BBC when Freesat was launched is not available to us.
...
It [Saorsat] will cost us approximately €1.5 million per year. We can manage it. As other channels come on board, part of the cost will be defrayed. In light of the security this option provides and the ability to supply to the 2% of the population who do not currently receive public service television, the cost can be adequately justified. We might have a different take on the situation were the cost €20 million or €25 million, but the actual amount is appropriate and reasonable.

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I see on other threads RTE are now refusing to say anything about Saorsat. They're keeping stum for some odd reason

No different from the rollout of Saorview DTT really, the Great Information Wall of Montrose. You'll get the information when they decide to release it.

I'd guess the main reason is they are only testing the technology atm from a new satellite that is only due to go operational this month. I believe Ireland will be the first European country to use the Ka-band for DTH satellite TV so stuff like reception equipment, coverage etc. will have to be tested. No point announcing something if at the end of the day it won't work as planned.

This from RTÉ

RTÉNL expect to be able to make more information publicly available about this new service in late 2011.

http://www.saorview.ie/what-is-saorview/saorsat/

Mr. Rabbit

So Cush, the bottom line is that it's not technically feasible to block the signal in the rest of the UK (and Europe) on the Freesat platform, and allow an in the clear service for the ROI and along with RTE/TG4 ?

Can't understand how it isn't because it's been done the other way around. For example when the Saint radio station was broadcasting in Southampton, it was available on Sky free to air in the Southampton area but to no where else in the UK.

Still, I suppose viewers up here that can't get either Sarview or the mini RTE/TG4 service can put up a seperate dish and buy an extra receiver for Saorsat when it's up and running.

I wonder how they'll block the sports programmes that aren't available to Northern viewers on the Sky service due to rights issues when the mini RTE mux starts on Freeview in NI ? Is this technically feasible or will they have to bite the bullet, so to speak ? Or will we just get a blank screan with a message telling us this programme is not available, as happens on some of Freeview's plus one hr services ?

The Cush

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

So Cush, the bottom line is that it's not technically feasible to block the signal in the rest of the UK (and Europe) on the Freesat platform, and allow an in the clear service for the ROI and along with RTE/TG4 ?

Can't understand how it isn't because it's been done the other way around. For example when the Saint radio station was broadcasting in Southampron, it was available on Sky free to air in the Southampton area but to no where else in the UK.

Regarding the radio station, was it soft-encrypted i.e. a Sky receiver and FTV card required (Freesat from Sky)? Otherwise it would be FTA and available to any FTA satellite receiver.

Freesat is basically an EPG and a Freesat spec receiver which displays the epg. The channels are FTA (and available to any FTA satellite receiver), the epg puts them into a user friendly accessible order. To be on the Freesat epg the channel pays a fee. Channels are not encrypted by freesat.

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Still, I wonder how they'll block the sports programmes that aren't available to Northern viewers on the Sky service due to rights issues when the mini RTE mux starts on Freeview in NI ? Is this technically feasible or will they have to bight the bullet, so to speak ?

Saorview and Saorsat reception (programmes) in NI is regarded as overspill reception and is legally received as per the AVMS Directive.

How programming with rights issues i.e. sports, US TV series etc. will be handled on the new NI mini-mux hasn't been spoken about by RTÉ/TG4 that I know of.

Will RTÉ/TG4 programmes includes NI rights? Would that include Sky/cable? How would that work with the RTÉ/C 5 "Home & Away" issue?

You'll know the answer to that in about 18 months time or before maybe.