Beginning with deer hunting

Gerry.L

EDIT: Sorry I just realised I put this in shooting and not hunting...

I have 2 questions really

1) Im guessing since Muntjac are on the vermin list, provided I have a deer legal caliber and permission to be on land then shooting them should be ok?

2) I really dont have much clue regarding the deer hunting. For next year (season of 2012) what should I be doing now. Ive started putting away 50 or 60 a week for a 308, so thats the rifle covered... but what about the legal end. Im not really sure where to start

It wasn't me!

You'll still require a deer licence from NPWS to shoot Muntjac (If you can find any), pest species or no.

To shoot deer, you need a deer calibre rifle (Specified in 1976 Wildlife Act as a rifle of no less than .22 calibre, firing a bullet of no less than 55 grains with a muzzle energy of 1700 ft/lbs or greater. This in practice means a minimum of rounds like the .22-250 or the .220 Swift, but they really are practical minimums and there's no call to be using them when there are better rounds for the job). The .308 you're talking about is perfect. You will also require a deer licence. To get this, you'll need to submit the form, available on the NPWS website, to NPWS, with signed land permissions (including folio numbers, date, phone numbers and signatures) and the details of the rifle and ammunition to establish your access to a deer legal rifle to the NPWS. It's free. The land permissions you have will need to have an established deer population. Anything over a couple of hundred acres should be fine.

After that, you're good to go!

Jonty

Gerry.L wrote: »

EDIT: Sorry I just realised I put this in shooting and not hunting...

I have 2 questions really

1) Im guessing since Muntjac are on the vermin list, provided I have a deer legal caliber and permission to be on land then shooting them should be ok?

2) I really dont have much clue regarding the deer hunting. For next year (season of 2012) what should I be doing now. Ive started putting away 50 or 60 a week for a 308, so thats the rifle covered... but what about the legal end. Im not really sure where to start

Munties have a season, and it is on the deer stalking permit, so you still need a permit from NPWS I think. Others will be along to comment.

Binos are your new best friend Shop around, as deals can be had. Avoid cheaper makes. I'd consider glass to be more important than the rifle.

you should really be applying to NPWS for your stalking permit first, just to get the ball in motion as the gardai mightn't process your application as you don't have a "valid" stalking permit in your possession.

The permit will not be issued until August IIRC, so get them to draft a letter stating that you have applied for a permit and alll things going well you will be issued one at their nearest convenience. Hopefully this should suffice AGS.

If you haven't held a FAC before you might have to do competency training. Also If you can get out with an experienced stalker to learn the ropes, it would come in handy:

I consider the following to be important:

Binos
Scope
Knife
Rifle
(Dog)

in that order!!!

tfox

If you're a novice I'd highly recommend attending the DSC level 1 courses provided by the British Deer Society, not cheap but very very informative for anyone involved in stalking. Unfortunately our "wonderful" Irish governement does not recognise the DSC as an equivelant to the HCAP unless you are a non-resident, even though in my opinion it's the TEN times the qualification. So if you're wanting to stalk on Coilte land the HCAP is a must too.

As said good glass is very important, I'm a Zeiss man myself but theres plenty of other good ones, german/austrian is the best. General rule of thumb is spend as much on your scope as you do on your rifle.

Get out knocking on doors looking for permission, worst they can do is tell ya f*** off

Gerry.L

Thats great lads thanks for the advice. Its not as long a process as I thought it would be. It actually seems straight forward enough.


Just one last question.. Im looking in your direction here Jonty. Im on the npws website now looking at the deer hunting application. And its asking what rifle would I be using. Are you saying I should put down details of the 308 I hope to get?


Funny you mentioned the DSC tfox. Im planning on ordering a DSC course tonight, designed by your man ray mears (I saw it advertised in last months sporting gun) and it looks to be the right job.

poulo6.5

You need a deer license to shoot munties.

Go to a dealer and put a deposit on a rifle. .308 or whatever. A dealer will be glad to see you dropout a few quid to him every couple of weeks
Apply for your hunters license. To get this you will need about 3 farmers names and address and folio number and phone number. Oh and acerage of each farm. These farmers must have deer on their land as they will check before awarding a license. Other than that it's straight forward
Submit your application to the Garda.

Before you know it you will have your license and rifle.
Best of luck.

Ps a .220 swift is not deer legal so don't apply for one with that. And if you want a .22-250 then min waight bullet is 60gr.

Jonty

Gerry.L wrote: »

Just one last question.. Im looking in your direction here Jonty. Im on the npws website now looking at the deer hunting application. And its asking what rifle would I be using. Are you saying I should put down details of the 308 I hope to get?

Yes you can, but if you change your mind about the rifle after the form is submitted it doesn't matter.

As long as you have your NPWS permit, and Firearms Permit, and Permissions all sorted you're all G for Go!

Good hunting!!

bunny shooter

poulo6.5 wrote: »

....Ps a .220 swift is not deer legal so don't apply for one with that..

Not this again :rolleyes:

It is according to the legislation and lads have them licenced for stalking as well you know from other threads here

See this thread ...................................

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055909868

OP a .308 would be a better alternative though

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

Not this again :rolleyes:

It is according to the legislation and lads have them licenced for stalking as well you know from other threads here

See this thread ...................................

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055909868

OP a .308 would be a better alternative though

I still have to see a persons licence that Only has a .220 Swift for Stalking to back up that Claim

Not that I don't believe you, I just need to see someone who can back up their claims

It's a "rural legend" at this stage.;)

http://www.npws.ie/media/npws/publications/legaldocs/Deer%20Hunting%20Application%20Form.pdf

I appreciat that teh .22-250 60 grain and .220 Swift 60 grain are almost Identical in regards energy (.22-250 Hornady Soft Nose Vs .220 Swift Hollow Point)
http://www.hornady.com/store/220-Swift-60-gr-HP/

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-250-Rem-60-gr-SP/

That is of course if the Online Data is accurate ***24" test Barrel would leave a 20-23" barrel possibly still shy of 1700ft/lbs:eek:**

I would prefer a min of a .243 myself to ensure clean kills.
The extra 300 ft/lbs is more forgiving on accuracy

With the .308 being the best all rounder IMvHO for the Irish Deer Scene.
http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-150-GR-InterBond-Superformance/
Almost 3000ft/lbs means Hydrostatic Shock can really make up for not perfect shot placement.


I started deer shooting with a 6.5x55, it worked well for me, just ammo availability and ammo cost was sometimes an issue.

I know Paulo has an impressive record with his .308
Lots Rave about the .270, I personally prefer a short action for working the bolt etc and mag capacity.
I only ever load 4 or 5 in teh mag when going out stalking, I know there are Rambo types that love to carry a load of gear.
Any knife will do in a pus, I gutted deer with my Swiss army knife once or twice that I forgot my stalking knife.

Some Guys rave about Dogs, It depends on were you stalk and what you shoot.
If on Farm land a dog is more of a hinderer than a help.
If in Coillte I can see the merits of a dog.

An old Van or Pick up is Ideal as you don't have to lug a trailer around with you then and can throw any deer in the back.
A liner is also a good idea as Blood smells and can destroy steel if left on it long term.

An Old Shop Drinks Cooler is ideal for hanging a deer, and a nice bench for chopping him up a few days later.

Get a hand winch if you can, saves putting your back out when trying to lift a deer onto a hook to skin. (especially if on your own).

A decent pair of wellies and a light breathable waterproof coat also are a must if you go on all day stalks.
Goretex is the best, but less will do.
And a small packet of BABYWIPES is also a must

bunny shooter

Tac where did you find my spoon

Minky 123

bunny shooter wrote: »

Not this again :rolleyes:

It is according to the legislation and lads have them licenced for stalking as well you know from other threads here

See this thread ...................................

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055909868

OP a .308 would be a better alternative though

Why would you go through the hassle of getting a deer licence and get .220 swift instead of a more powerfull cheaper .243 round.:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

You wouldn't, but if you had a .220 swift that shot well with 55gr and 60gr bullets, and wanted to start out with that, you might apply for a deer licence with it (And you may or may not get one. It's up to the issuing officer in NPWS and they may want something bigger, but provided it makes 1700 ft/lbs with a bullet of 55gr or heavier, it's deer legal). Personally, I think .243 is about the minimum anyone interested in shooting deer should be considering.

Tackleberrywho

Minky 123 wrote: »

Why would you go through the hassle of getting a deer licence and get .220 swift instead of a more powerfull cheaper .243 round.:rolleyes:

Well consider you would be limited to 60 grain Swifts one prob would not bother.

Coillte will not let you shoot under .24cal so its a major reason why it's not really considered.

the .22-250's are dying out in popularity, they will go like the 5.6x52rws did in Ireland.



How many do you know that shoots them these days??

patsat

I know of one fella shooting them and met another fella whilst out shooting! Paying a ridicul;ous price for them tho!

It wasn't me!

That's the sad thing patsat. There are some absolutely brilliant classic old rounds that are perfect for what we do here, that for one reason or another don't match what they should in factory ammo (I'm thinking 6.5x55, 7x57 and the like that are loaded very mild to cope with old Mauser actions which might have seen a few too many years of abuse) but which when handloaded really shine. I love the interesting choices myself but unless I could handload to make them perform as they should, I'd be wasting my time and not doing justice to fine old cartridges to use them as is.

Tackleberrywho

patsat wrote: »

I know of one fella shooting them and met another fella whilst out shooting! Paying a ridicul;ous price for them tho!

They used to be really popular.

I'm guessing they were auld lads who had them.
The ammo was up around €60 last I heard, and only a handful of place in the state that you could get them.

They were a screamer of a fox round :eek:

Edit, I think it was 5.6x57 not 5.6x52r

It's over ten years since I seen one so I may have been mistaken

They were always referred to 5.6's anyway.
No Google to contradict in them days

It wasn't me!

5.6x57 was based on the 7x57 mauser necked down to a .22. I think RWS loaded it with a big cone-pointed bullet about 70gr. Know a lot of lads who used them before and some of them think it was a better round than the .243 by a good way! Know of one lad who wouldn't stop using his until he got a .308.

plinker

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I still have to see a persons licence that Only has a .220 Swift for Stalking to back up that Claim

tack I,m a gun dealer and have 2 customers with deer permits on swifts ... I know this as both bought the guns from me first for vermin then applied for their deer permits after and got them listing hornady 60's as their chosen rounds

Tackleberrywho

plinker wrote: »

tack I,m a gun dealer and have 2 customers with deer permits on swifts ... I know this as both bought the guns from me first for vermin then applied for their deer permits after and got them listing hornady 60's as their chosen rounds

Fair play to them
NPWS told me NO so I took their word.
I'd prefer more power then a swift personally, but that's just me.

How much are you selling Hornady's 60 grains .220 swift a box out of interest??

plinker

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Fair play to them
NPWS told me NO so I took their word.
I'd prefer more power then a swift personally, but that's just me.

How much are you selling Hornady's 60 grains .220 swift a box out of interest??

37e... not cheap but will meet the requirements

plinker

plinker wrote: »

37e... not cheap but will meet the requirements

also the only gun you can get before getting a deer permit (or target club membership) that is deer legal

Tackleberrywho

plinker wrote: »

37e... not cheap but will meet the requirements

I bought Hornady Superformance .308 for that price :eek:
I think I'll stick with my .308

.220 Swift is Very expensive as a varminter and a soft hitter for deer.

It's amazing since the advent of the internet how some things improved for the better in shooting circles, a pitty fella's could not have done that years ago, would have saved on buying rifles, as I knew a fella shooting a .220 swift and a .22-250 for foxing and deer respectively.

Grizzly 45

Going back to the OP post.As well as having the gear,you need an idea of how to use it.I'd suggest that you ask around too here on the boards,is there an experianced stalker here or in your vicinity who would take you on as an "apprentice" so to speak.You will learn a lot and fast with a good man/woman out on the hill than you will by book work and DIY [which is another 50% of learning this game].:)

Tackleberrywho

You also need a good sense of direction, so you know the shortest drag to a road

I got my first apprentice this year, have not got him a deer yet, but have brought him stalking 4 times, but as long as the pitcher goes to the well

Goats are really good practice as skinning and gutting is the same, and if you make a bags of it it's dog food anyway