Donegal 8 inquest?

Mr. Presentable

Last July there was that horrific crash in Inishowen. When is the inquest? When will the findings be known? Incidents since then have been inquested and reported. What's the delay?

mickdw

Interested in the findings of this myself. Might not be as clear cut as everyone would think although car was obviously overcrowded.

iphone4g

mickdw wrote: »

Interested in the findings of this myself. Might not be as clear cut as everyone would think although car was obviously overcrowded.

Dont you know it will be the evil " speed"

ShadowHearth

iphone4g wrote: »

Dont you know it will be the evil " speed"

Nailed it.

dr.fuzzenstein

iphone4g wrote: »

Dont you know it will be the evil " speed"

And if it wasn't speed, they will say speed anyway.
If they found out it had nothing to do with speed, where will they get a good hand-wringing and some proper Joe Duffy hysteria from?
Yesterday there was a documentary on RTE about a horrific crash at the Les Mans race in 1955.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster
But other than that RTE has no motor racing coverage whatsoever.
Young drivers going too fast on the roads here is treated like mental illness, teenage pregnancies, teenage delinquents, corruption in politics, bad planning, lack of competition and any other problem you care to mention : Plenty of hysteria and hand-wringing and a few slap-dash laws to "ban that sort of thing", but no one ever says "hey, why don't we find out why this happens to begin with and get at the root cause".
He'd probably be shouted down and have things thrown at him.
So. Speed. Why do you ask? Can't you accept the government and RSA know better? How dare you question the relevant authorities! You have been reported to Gaybo and men in white coats are coming to get you.

4zn76tysfajdxp

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And if it wasn't speed, they will say speed anyway.
If they found out it had nothing to do with speed, where will they get a good hand-wringing and some proper Joe Duffy hysteria from?
Yesterday there was a documentary on RTE about a horrific crash at the Les Mans race in 1955.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster
But other than that RTE has no motor racing coverage whatsoever.
Young drivers going too fast on the roads here is treated like mental illness, teenage pregnancies, teenage delinquents, corruption in politics, bad planning, lack of competition and any other problem you care to mention : Plenty of hysteria and hand-wringing and a few slap-dash laws to "ban that sort of thing", but no one ever says "hey, why don't we find out why this happens to begin with and get at the root cause".
He'd probably be shouted down and have things thrown at him.
So. Speed. Why do you ask? Can't you accept the government and RSA know better? How dare you question the relevant authorities! You have been reported to Gaybo and men in white coats are coming to get you.

So.... you don't know?

unkel

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Last July there was that horrific crash in Inishowen. When is the inquest? When will the findings be known? Incidents since then have been inquested and reported. What's the delay?

I've been wondering about that myself. There seems to have been a complete media blackout since about a week or so after the crash. No news about any charges brought against the driver (or his medical progress for that matter). No news about any inquest. No updates or further details about the drivers alleged / possible previous convictions for dangerous driving. No news about insurance cases (the driver was allegedly not insured as the car was on foreign plates) being brought against the driver.

Delancey

There is a reason for the lack of news and the apparent delay in the inquests.
Firstly , criminal proceedings ( if there are to be any ) take precedence over inquests , in otherwords there will be no inquests until all criminal matters have been finalised by the courts.
Criminal cases take a long time to come to court - firstly a file goes to the DPP ( in this case we are talking a big file ) files can take a long time to prepare , DPP makes a decision on charges ( if any ) and a court date is set - sounds simple but cases can take a long time to find a slot in the Circuit Courts where a very serious charge, for example, Death by Dangerous Driving would be heard.
Given that charges may follow the media would be constrained by the sub-judice rule where they need to be exceptionally careful in what they publish for fear of (A ) Prejudicing any criminal trial and ( B ) following on from point A - dropping in serious sh1t with the DPP.

SilverBell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And if it wasn't speed, they will say speed anyway.
If they found out it had nothing to do with speed, where will they get a good hand-wringing and some proper Joe Duffy hysteria from?
Yesterday there was a documentary on RTE about a horrific crash at the Les Mans race in 1955.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster
But other than that RTE has no motor racing coverage whatsoever.
Young drivers going too fast on the roads here is treated like mental illness, teenage pregnancies, teenage delinquents, corruption in politics, bad planning, lack of competition and any other problem you care to mention : Plenty of hysteria and hand-wringing and a few slap-dash laws to "ban that sort of thing", but no one ever says "hey, why don't we find out why this happens to begin with and get at the root cause".
He'd probably be shouted down and have things thrown at him.
So. Speed. Why do you ask? Can't you accept the government and RSA know better? How dare you question the relevant authorities! You have been reported to Gaybo and men in white coats are coming to get you.

Thank goodness there is no hysteria on this thread.

dr.fuzzenstein

Nash Embarrassed Loiterer wrote: »

So.... you don't know?

Answer will be Speed. Million bucks and my left nut.

Gophur

CSI has obviously missed out on some exceptional forensic investigators, by the tone of the answers on this thread.

What are you trying to say, lads?
That the Passat was driving too slow, and excessive speed was not an issue?

jaffa20

Gophur wrote: »

CSI has obviously missed out on some exceptional forensic investigators, by the tone of the answers on this thread.

What are you trying to say, lads?
That the Passat was driving too slow, and excessive speed was not an issue?

Overcrowding, dangerous roads with stupid speed limits perhaps.

onlyrocknroll

I'm not challenging, I'm just inquiring....

Why the scepticism about speed as an explanation for road death? It seems reasonable to me to say that someone was driving too fast to control the car.

Why do you guys think that this is hysterical? Do you believe that speed is often attributed as the cause of a crash incorrectly? Or do you feel that certain groups (i.e. young men) are being scapegoated as people who speed too much and cause road death? Or is it something else?

Again, I'm not picking an argument, it just seems that some posters have strongly held opinions on this and I'd like to hear an elaboration.

onlyrocknroll

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

I'm not challenging, I'm just inquiring....

Why the scepticism about speed as an explanation for road death? It seems reasonable to me to say that someone was driving too fast to control the car.

Why do you guys think that this is hysterical? Do you believe that speed is often attributed as the cause of a crash incorrectly? Or do you feel that certain groups (i.e. young men) are being scapegoated as people who speed too much and cause road death? Or is it something else?

Again, I'm not picking an argument, it just seems that some posters have strongly held opinions on this and I'd like to hear an elaboration.

Sorry, by this a mean that in certain cases that it is reasonable to say this, rather than in this specific incident, obviously I don't know enough about what happened in Donegal.

dr.fuzzenstein

Gophur wrote: »

CSI has obviously missed out on some exceptional forensic investigators, by the tone of the answers on this thread.

What are you trying to say, lads?
That the Passat was driving too slow, and excessive speed was not an issue?

Just that it doesn't matter what the cause was, the result will be speed.
The RSA propaganda machine will make sure of that.
ANd should the inquest return a verdict other than speed, it will be quietly buried and speed will be given as the official reason.
Because speed is always the reason, all accidents are caused by it, even the ones that are caused by other factors than speed.
Remember: Speed Kills, who needs an effective, intelligent road safety campaign and driver education when you can just browbeat them with the same slogan over and over again.

Zubeneschamali

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Answer will be Speed.

The driver had 8 people in the Passat, clipped a Megane and totalled an oncoming Corolla driven by a pensioner several hunded meters later.

Of course he was going too fast, and overtaking dangerously.

What answer would you like to hear?

Absurdum

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

What answer would you like to hear?

that young drivers are safe and Gay Byrne is to blame for everything

Padraig Mor

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

Why the scepticism about speed as an explanation for road death? It seems reasonable to me to say that someone was driving too fast to control the car.

Why do you guys think that this is hysterical? Do you believe that speed is often attributed as the cause of a crash incorrectly? .

While 8 lads piled into a foreign registered, perhaps technically uninsured, car doesn't inspire confidence, IIRC there was some question in this case about whether 'the lads' were actually at fault for the accident (i.e. maybe it was the other party). Obviously I don't know either way. There was a similar case a couple of years previously where IIRC 5 young people were killed and the usual accusations were bandied about. it turned out, however, that the crash in that case had been caused by the drunken, middle aged, third party - not that this received much publicity.

And yes, speed is constantly insinuated as being a CAUSE of accidents when it usually isn't (it is generally a contributing factor to the seriousness of a crash - not the same thing at all). The RSA do not keep specific figures (why?), but the available data, together with UK figures, suggest that exceeding the speed limit is the primary cause of c. 5% of fatal accidents and that driving at a speed unsafe for the conditions (which may include speeds under the limit) is the primary cause of c. 8% of fatal collisions. By comparison, one vehicle being on the wrong side of the road is the most common primary cause of 2 car fatal collisions, representing 40+% of crashes IIRC. Unbelievably, the RSA do not have any data on the alcohol levels of drivers involved in collisions.

Gophur

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Just that it doesn't matter what the cause was, the result will be speed.
The RSA propaganda machine will make sure of that.
ANd should the inquest return a verdict other than speed, it will be quietly buried and speed will be given as the official reason.
Because speed is always the reason, all accidents are caused by it, even the ones that are caused by other factors than speed.
Remember: Speed Kills, who needs an effective, intelligent road safety campaign and driver education when you can just browbeat them with the same slogan over and over again.

What a ridiculous post.

Anan1

Padraig Mor wrote: »

By comparison, one vehicle being on the wrong side of the road is the most common primary cause of 2 car fatal collisions, representing 40+% of crashes IIRC.

Without meaning to sound facetious, I would have thought that was a prerequisite for most head-on collisions. Furthermore, I don't think hitting another car while on the wrong side of the road and driving too fast for the conditions are wholly unrelated.

Padraig Mor

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course he was going too fast, and overtaking dangerously.?

And you know this how........?

(not saying you're wrong, just wondering how you know the above to be true).

Padraig Mor

Anan1 wrote: »

Without meaning to sound facetious, I would have thought that was a prerequisite for most head-on collisions.

I didn't say head on collisions, I said 2 car collisions.

Furthermore, I don't think hitting another car while on the wrong side of the road and driving too fast for the conditions are wholly unrelated.

How do you make that out? Maybe it's true, maybe not, but I suspect drink, tiredness, poor visibility, lack of lighting etc all have a huge part to play. As noted earlier, driving too fast for conditions is cited as the primary factor in IIRC 8% of fatal collisions.

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The driver had 8 people in the Passat, clipped a Megane and totalled an oncoming Corolla driven by a pensioner several hunded meters later.

Of course he was going too fast, and overtaking dangerously.

What answer would you like to hear?

One that isn't made up on the spot. Unless you're psychic. Then we don't need an inquest and the report should read "what he said"
Maybe the answer is speed. Maybe the answer is that the other car strayed over the line.
Fact is we don't know.
If we could solve all of life's problems from tabloid headlines life would be easier.
What I'm saying is, if the cause is speed then it will be revealed with great fanfare and detail, but if the cause is something else, there will be nothing but silence.

Zubeneschamali

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Fact is we don't know.

Go back and read the reports from the witnesses at the time.

The Passat overtook a Megane, and clipped the outside wing coming back across the solid white line.

It would be quite the coincidence if a bingo-crazed pensioner was haring in the opposite direction on the wrong side of the road within a couple of hundred meters of the Passat clipping the Megane. I think it's obvious that the Passat driver lost it after clipping the Megane.

Here's a shot of the Megane with a blown outside front tyre, and the solid white line at that point:




Here's the Passat:



and the pensioners car:

challengemaster

You shoud probably tell someone official that you know without doubt exactly what happened - might save a lot of time and resources.

Zubeneschamali

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I suspect drink, tiredness, poor visibility, lack of lighting etc all have a huge part to play.

Gardai stated at the time that alcohol was not a factor. Not sure how you'd establish "tiredness" as a cause when all 7 passengers are dead.

"Lack of lighting" is ridiculous as a cause, this is rural road, of course there was no lighting.

"Poor visibility" just means driving too fast for what you can see, i.e. speed.

challengemaster

Considering the front of the passat is completely obliterated, how exactly do you know its lights were working properly?

That'd be a cause of poor visibility and lack of lighting... no?

Or.... actually, no. I know exactly the issue.

They were travelling faster than the light. Obviously. :pac:

Zubeneschamali

challengemaster wrote: »

Considering the front of the passat is completely obliterated, how exactly do you know its lights were working properly?

Eh, what?

How exactly could bad lights cause the Passat to overtake on a solid white line? If the driver couldn't see, he sure as hell shouldn't have been overtaking.

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The Passat overtook a Megane, and clipped the outside wing coming back across the solid white line.

OK, but that sounds more like dangerous overtaking coupled with inexperience, the Megane could have been going 40 km/h, if the Passat overtook at 80 km/h that still is not an insane speed.
If he, due to his inexperience, clipped the Megane, he would have lost control at almost any speed bar a crawl.
Overtaking on a solid white line is stupid, as for what speed he was going, we'd have to wait for reports on how damaged the cars where, analysis of skidmarks and the likes.
I hope that the final report will give some details other than "speed", because that alone doesn't tell us what happened.

challengemaster

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, what?

How exactly could bad lights cause the Passat to overtake on a solid white line? If the driver couldn't see, he sure as hell shouldn't have been overtaking.

Well there also shouldn't have been 8 people in the car, nor should they have overtaken on a white line. There's probably a long list of what they shouldn't have been doing. My point being, you don't know every last detail, so stop acting like you do.

-Chris-

Unfortunately nobody knows the full story yet, and a lot of this is speculation.

I think the OP's question as to why the inquest has been delayed has been answered.

If anyone has any new information regarding this event/inquest, PM me and I'll reopen the thread.