Stealth Helicopter?

Steyr

1. http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/mysterious-helicopter/

2. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382859/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Photo-Obama-watching-Al-Qaeda-leader-die-live-TV.html/

3. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?197635-The-mysterious-helicopter-involved-in-the-Osama-Bin-Laden-raid


What do you think? The tail section is tiny and does not look like a Blackhawks tail section. Especially check out the pictures in the second link.

Solo RAH-66 Commanche?

Look at the Commache Tail section:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.minihelicopter.net/RAH66Comanche/RAH-66%2520Comanche.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.minihelicopter.net/RAH66Comanche/index.htm&h=531&w=637&sz=49&tbnid=Nxqg2Dba-P1Y5M:&tbnh=114&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcomanche%2Bhelicopter%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=comanche+helicopter&usg=__Kyd4lk_qfQu14hGPZkq1_AUQFk8=&sa=X&ei=o27ATfn8FoHBhAfS-q2kBQ&ved=0CBsQ9QEwAA

punchdrunk

modified MH-60 I'd say,reduced IR and acoustic signature

savagecabbages

I dont think its commanche or a blackhawk.

Then again i've absolutely no idea what it is

If there were only two helicopters involved, it would have been one hell of a squeeze to fit everyone back (plus special cargo) onto an MH-60 sized airframe...
Thats assuming what we've heard from the white house and witnesses is accurate.


Part of a badly damaged fenestron missing a shroud?
Rotary winged UAV?
a hoax/decoy?

I actually have no idea...

Manic Moran

I have no idea.

Need more information. Could be anything from a modified H60 through a modified S92 made of unobtanium. I'm strongly leaning H-60.

NTM

cyrusdvirus

i wonder was this a Operation Ivory Coast style loss, as in was it a deliberate 'land the copter in the space allowed and feck the tail boom' job, or did they really have a mech failure

xflyer

Fascinating, clearly some kind of 'skunk works' modified standard helicopter, probably a H60 as many suggest. Reduced noise, reduced radar signature. No doubt a photo of an intact one will surface in due course.

Checking all the websites it's clear this is a new one for most people. Just shows the the US can keep secrets when they have to unless it crashes somewhere. In fact if it wasn't for the fact the tail ended up on the wrong side of a wall, the thermite grenade would have covered up everything.

punchdrunk

if there were only two choppers (I thought there was four reported?)

then I'm going to say some kind of modified S-92

but I'm definitely thinking it's Sikorsky,and it looks like they're recycling some of the technology developed for Commanche
definitely not a fenestron tail though,but maybe a development of the gearbox/blades/noise reduction technology from it?

I doubt it was designed to beat radar,more likely to give the a drop in dB to gain an extra few seconds surprise on the approach to the building

Klunk001

What about this.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155097

Manic Moran

gatecrash wrote: »

i wonder was this a Operation Ivory Coast style loss, as in was it a deliberate 'land the copter in the space allowed and feck the tail boom' job, or did they really have a mech failure

It was a debated question, but the current thinking is, no.

Firstly, fast-roping was not a technique in use in the Vietnam war, so the crash landing was the best answer for the required speed. Plus, given the secrecy involved with the helicopter now that we've seen the tail boom, I can't imagine that they would have deliberately crashed in foreign territory an aircraft which was so classified that not even whispers of its existence were on the web.

NTM

Steyr

More News, it looks like a Modified H-60.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a275902dd-e7a2-40fd-ab78-d46e3bf922b1&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

Flashpoint

Klunk001 wrote: »

What about this.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155097

I say is the nearest i have seen yet

savagecabbages

In fairness he could have put that tail on any 3d model of a helicopter and it would have looked convincing!
Though I agree a modified H-60 is the most likely candidate for now. It just doesn't wash with the two chopper story from the white house...

The one thing I'm amazed at is the complete lack of knowledge of these things beforehand. usually there are all sorts of rumors floating around regarding black machines, but this is out of the blue!

Klunk001

Here's another

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mh-x3.jpg

BrianD

Here's a mock up of what it might look like:

http://defensetech.org/2011/05/04/what-the-secret-bin-laden-raid-helo-might-look-like/

I wonder will the Pakistani's give it back???

One of the photos shows that they've put a screen around the tail boom to shield it from prying eyes so they must know that they've got something unusual.

Local-womanizer

Seen on the news today that the US want the parts back, they don't want them falling into unwanted hands.

cyrusdvirus

Manic Moran wrote: »

It was a debated question, but the current thinking is, no.

Firstly, fast-roping was not a technique in use in the Vietnam war, so the crash landing was the best answer for the required speed. Plus, given the secrecy involved with the helicopter now that we've seen the tail boom, I can't imagine that they would have deliberately crashed in foreign territory an aircraft which was so classified that not even whispers of its existence were on the web.

NTM

Fair point. Just to play devils advocate here though, OBL would have been regarded as a high value target, and possibly could have warranted that tactic.


FYI I don't believe it was myself, as i said just playing the bad guy...

Manic Moran

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Seen on the news today that the US want the parts back, they don't want them falling into unwanted hands.

Yeah I don't see that working out. Mark it down as the cost of doing business.

NTM

Locust

Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure to blow up the damaged chopper, so not to fall into enemy hands... I think the media reported that they did blow it up... Especially it being a new/secret piece of equipment
- did the Seals miss or not think about the fancy tail rotor? Were they under pressure for time/hasty extraction? Were they taking fire when they left? Why did they leave the stealth tail rotor for all the worlds media to see?

Turtwig

Locust wrote: »

Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure to blow up the damaged chopper, so not to fall into enemy hands... I think the media reported that they did blow it up... Especially it being a new/secret piece of equipment
- did the Seals miss or not think about the fancy tail rotor? Were they under pressure for time/hasty extraction? Were they taking fire when they left? Why did they leave the stealth tail rotor for all the worlds media to see?

It fell outside the compound's wall.

Steyr

Locust wrote: »

Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure to blow up the damaged chopper, so not to fall into enemy hands... I think the media reported that they did blow it up...

Pretty much especially if munitions are on board the downed Aircraft, they did that to the LN F-15E in Libya that crashed due to mechanical failure.

Local-womanizer

Manic Moran wrote: »

Yeah I don't see that working out. Mark it down as the cost of doing business.

NTM

Locust wrote: »

Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure to blow up the damaged chopper, so not to fall into enemy hands... I think the media reported that they did blow it up... Especially it being a new/secret piece of equipment
- did the Seals miss or not think about the fancy tail rotor? Were they under pressure for time/hasty extraction? Were they taking fire when they left? Why did they leave the stealth tail rotor for all the worlds media to see?

Do you think as a result of the tail rotor being outside the perimeter wall that they decided on a hard landing? Clipping the tail rotor on the wall with the rest of the aircraft inside the compound for the sake of a quick insertion?

I mean did they blow up the main body of the chopper? But due to the situation did they forget/decide against the tail rotor destruction?

On another note I am not happy with Pakistan and their comments:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/osama-bin-laden-pakistan-us-sovereignty

I mean the fact/rumour that OBL possibly lived here since 2005 just points to a lack of effort or incompetence on behalf of the ISI. Stop digging ffs!

transylman

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Do you think as a result of the tail rotor being outside the perimeter wall that they decided on a hard landing? Clipping the tail rotor on the wall with the rest of the aircraft inside the compound for the sake of a quick insertion?

I mean did they blow up the main body of the chopper? But due to the situation did they forget/decide against the tail rotor destruction?

Details are still changing daily but from what I understand the 2 initial helicopters were hovering over the compound after the seal team had roped down. One of the helicopters experienced an engine problem (overheating I heard from one place) and dropped to the ground. The tail section was over the wall when this happened so when it came down it was snapped off. I guess in all the excitement the tail section on the other side of the wall got overlooked when they burned the rest of the helicopter. Also, they didn't blow it up, they used thermite grenades.

Very advanced stuff they were using. The US has a least a 10 year technology advantage on other countries when it comes to stealth technology so they will be very interested in this.

Utrinque Paratus

transylman wrote: »

Details are still changing daily but from what I understand the 2 initial helicopters were hovering over the compound after the seal team had roped down. One of the helicopters experienced an engine problem (overheating I heard from one place) and dropped to the ground. The tail section was over the wall when this happened so when it came down it was snapped off. I guess in all the excitement the tail section on the other side of the wall got overlooked when they burned the rest of the helicopter. Also, they didn't blow it up, they used thermite grenades.

Very advanced stuff they were using. The US has a least a 10 year technology advantage on other countries when it comes to stealth technology so they will be very interested in this.

The DEVGRU operators fast-roped out of the Blackhawks. After the operators were on the ground, one of the hovering helicopters stalled,[84] in a vortex created by its own prop wash and the high compound walls.[85] After the helicopter stalled, it "grazed one of the compound's walls"[75] "breaking a rotor".[74] The helicopter "rolled onto its side"[86] during an emergency landing.


The 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (SOAR), an airborne unit of the United States Army Special Operations Command known as the Night Stalkers, provided two modified Black Hawk helicopters, and two Chinooks as backups.[63][69][70][78][79] The Black Hawks may have been never-before-publicly-seen "stealth" versions of the helicopter.[80][81][82] The 160th SOAR helicopters were supported by multiple other aircraft, including fixed-wing fighter jets and drones.[83] According to CNN, "The Air Force also had a full team of combat search-and-rescue helicopters available."[83]

The raid was scheduled for a time with little moon light so the helicopters could enter Pakistan "low to the ground and undetected,"[65] and the helicopters used hilly terrain and nap-of-the-earth techniques to reach the compound without appearing on radar and alerting the Pakistani military. Once the raid began, the Pakistani military scrambled their fighter jets but did not interfere with the raid.[30]

The DEVGRU operators fast-roped out of the Blackhawks. After the operators were on the ground, one of the hovering helicopters stalled,[84] in a vortex created by its own prop wash and the high compound walls.[85] After the helicopter stalled, it "grazed one of the compound's walls"[75] "breaking a rotor".[74] The helicopter "rolled onto its side"[86] during an emergency landing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Steyr

Confirmed Stealth Helicopter:

http://www.airforcetimes.com/mobile/index.php?storyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airforcetimes.com%2Fnews%2F2011%2F05%2Farmy-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411%2F

The helicopters that flew the Navy SEALs on the mission to kill Osama bin Laden were a radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, according to a retired special operations aviator.


The helicopter’s low-observable technology is similar to that of the F-117 Stealth Fighter the retired special operations aviator said. “It really didn’t look like a traditional Black Hawk,” he said. It had “hard edges, sort of like an … F-117, you know how they have those distinctive edges and angles — that’s what they had on this one.”.................

BuckJamesRogers

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Seen on the news today that the US want the parts back, they don't want them falling into unwanted hands.

would you?

Locust

Malty_T wrote: »

It fell outside the compound's wall.

And what US Navy Seals can't scale walls? I'd presume the incident was monitored from the air, (...fairly likely they even had satellites covering?!) I don't get how they (the super meticulous/scrupulous seals) missed the tail rotor of a top secret aircraft being left there, unless they assumed it was destroyed and the wall shielded it from the blast? or maybe they didn't give a toss in the heat of getting their no.1 target... Or after 40mins the commander told them to get the hell out of there before the Pakistani Military Academy down the street was roused.

Amerika

I see Pakistan is now threatening to show China the remains of that helicopter.

The U.S. has already asked the Pakistanis for the helicopter wreckage back, but one Pakistani official told ABC News the Chinese were also "very interested" in seeing the remains. Another official said, "We might let them [the Chinese] take a look."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-raid-pakistan-hints-china-peak/story?id=13570573

Hmmmm... Maybe we should make a very loud public invitation to India, and let them take a look at our awesome Navy shipborne free-electron laser capable of shooting cruise missiles from the sky in seconds with a deadly accuracy. Ya think?

Traumadoc

Has anyone seen pictures of the rest of the wreckage?

Utrinque Paratus

Amerika wrote: »

I see Pakistan is now threatening to show China the remains of that helicopter.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-raid-pakistan-hints-china-peak/story?id=13570573

Hmmmm... Maybe we should make a very loud public invitation to India, and let them take a look at our awesome Navy shipborne free-electron laser capable of shooting cruise missiles from the sky in seconds with a deadly accuracy. Ya think?

Maybe the Americans should tell them they will cut their 3 billion a yr aid if they do.

Not good to bite the hand that feeds you.