Backdoor into Medicine...

MedMan101

What would be the best way to get into medicine if we dont get it come August? Repeating is a big NO-NO!
What courses would give you a good foundation if you were to do through graduate entry?

Anybody who done it through graduate entry or knows anybody doing it, advice would be a big help!

J_E

Why is repeating completely off limits? If you were willing to put your dignity aside and do the year you could get into undergrad medicine faster and easier than in postgrad.

zathan

You need to seriously weigh up the costs/opportunity costs of repeating/not repeating. Repeating will mean one academic year of putting your head down and working really hard, it will also most likely cost a bit but far less than the cost of pursuing graduate entry into medicine.

If you don't repeat you will also more than likely be in college for min 8 years straight - believe me, thats a long time to be studying and not having a real income!

MedMan101

Well theres an entirely new maths, irish and english course to be studied! Ive no doubt that i'l get enough points (570 mocks) but its with regards to the HPAT that im worried about. If I dont do well in the HPAT, what other routes are there to becoming a doctor?

seriouslysweet

UL Postgrad.

MedMan101

seriouslysweet wrote: »

UL Postgrad.

But what course to do undergraduate?
or would you be better off takin a year out and repeating the HPAT?

my plans so far are to take a year out and go working, save a bitta dosh and repeat the HPAT if I dont get Med unless someone can persuade me otherwise!

LilMissCiara

MedMan101 wrote: »

Well theres an entirely new maths, irish and english course to be studied! Ive no doubt that i'l get enough points (570 mocks) but its with regards to the HPAT that im worried about. If I dont do well in the HPAT, what other routes are there to becoming a doctor?

MedMan101 wrote: »

But what course to do undergraduate?
or would you be better off takin a year out and repeating the HPAT?

my plans so far are to take a year out and go working, save a bitta dosh and repeat the HPAT if I dont get Med unless someone can persuade me otherwise!

Yeah you could used this years CAO points and resit the HPAT and use the points from next year!

ride-the-spiral

There's no new English course next year, and even then the new maths course only affects paper 2.

MedMan101

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

There's no new English course next year, and even then the new maths course only affects paper 2.

Well different poets. I would'nt do english if I did have to repeat anyway.

would it be a good idea to do medicine abroad like hungary or somewhere?
Lot of money I know, but you wouldnt be long earning it back!:P

emmalunney

you should email UCD and ask about the graduate entry programme, i went to the opening night of it, and it sounds fantastic. its what i'm aiming for

NotExactly

MedMan101 wrote: »

I would'nt do english if I did have to repeat anyway.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you have to do English,Irish and Maths if you repeat and want to do medicine.

Exothermic

NotExactly wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you have to do English,Irish and Maths if you repeat and want to do medicine.

True. It's not like other courses where you just need to meet matriculation requirements once.
To be fair, Hamlet is on next year and so are some of the poets. Learning a few new poets would be easy. Usually repeats take on another subject so you could lessen the worry about either Irish or Maths too.

Regardless, taking one year extra to get into Medicine seems much more advisable than heading into a four year degree which you may get bored of and drop out. One extra year or four?

ballsymchugh

NotExactly wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you have to do English,Irish and Maths if you repeat and want to do medicine.

not exactly. nui colleges say you have to have passed these subjects, but not necc in the same year. so you can do english one year, and if you pass it, then leave it and focus on another subject that you may be better able to get higher points out of.

op, getting those points in the mock is a pretty fine result. you can do english, and drop it for the repeat year, and you'll still have the intelligence to figure out a new course for irish and maths if needed, while keeping on top of the other subjects that you already are doing well in.

don't rule out repeating at all. it was the best year i had at school.

Pugzilla

ballsymchugh wrote: »

not exactly. nui colleges say you have to have passed these subjects, but not necc in the same year. so you can do english one year, and if you pass it, then leave it and focus on another subject that you may be better able to get higher points out of.

op, getting those points in the mock is a pretty fine result. you can do english, and drop it for the repeat year, and you'll still have the intelligence to figure out a new course for irish and maths if needed, while keeping on top of the other subjects that you already are doing well in.

don't rule out repeating at all. it was the best year i had at school.

Medicine is an exception to this rule.You'll have to repeat all the subjects required for matriculation or you can't use those points for medicine:

"In 2011, undergraduate entry to medicine for school leavers will be based on both:
• achieving a minimum of 480 points and meeting the minimum entry requirements for the programme in the same sitting
of the Irish Leaving Certificate Examination (or equivalent*)
and
• completing the required admissions test (HPAT-Ireland) within the 2 year period immediately preceding admission to the
medicine programme"


However, you could eaily sit English at ordinary level and concentrate on other subjects.

ballsymchugh

Pugzilla wrote: »

Medicine is an exception to this rule.You'll have to repeat all the subjects required for matriculation or you can't use those points for medicine:

"In 2011, undergraduate entry to medicine for school leavers will be based on both:
• achieving a minimum of 480 points and meeting the minimum entry requirements for the programme in the same sitting
of the Irish Leaving Certificate Examination (or equivalent*)
and
• completing the required admissions test (HPAT-Ireland) within the 2 year period immediately preceding admission to the
medicine programme"


However, you could eaily sit English at ordinary level and concentrate on other subjects.

in my day.. ahem... matriculation was based in nui colleges only, so is the above still the case for tcd and college of surgeons?

seriouslysweet

As for not being long earning it back, the rates at which new docs are paid are awful, both my parents urging me not to do it. I'd say repeating would work out a whole lot cheaper!

Pugzilla

ballsymchugh wrote: »

in my day.. ahem... matriculation was based in nui colleges only, so is the above still the case for tcd and college of surgeons?

Yeah , it applies to all the undergraduate medical courses.

MedMan101

you defenatly dont need to do english, irish, maths again if you'v passed them already! I asked my teacher a few weeks ago about this and she said that once you pass a subject, you can keep it for next years requirements (including medicine)! I know a fella doing medicine anyway who repeated about 3 years ago and he didnt do english or irsh.:p

Pugzilla

MedMan101 wrote: »

you defenatly dont need to do english, irish, maths again if you'v passed them already! I asked my teacher a few weeks ago about this and she said that once you pass a subject, you can keep it for next years requirements (including medicine)! I know a fella doing medicine anyway who repeated about 3 years ago and he didnt do english or irsh.:p

Your teacher is wrong. Also your friend did the leaving cert in 2008, before the HPAT was introduced. For medicine you must count subjects for both points and entry requirements from the one sitting.

http://www.hpat-ireland.acer.edu.au/images/documents/2011%20admission%20guide%20to%20undergraduate%20medicine.pdf

"480 points from the same sitting of the Leaving Certificate examination (or equivalent*). This means that students must achieve both the required subjects and the points in the same sitting."

Bbbbolger

Exactly. I was enquiring about repeating (God forbid I don't get Medicine) and I was told by a lot of people, including a current repeat student and my school guidance counsellor, that for Medicine you must do all subjects you intend on counting in the one sitting. You cant combine results from different years.

ballsymchugh

Bbbbolger wrote: »

Exactly. I was enquiring about repeating (God forbid I don't get Medicine) and I was told by a lot of people, including a current repeat student and my school guidance counsellor, that for Medicine you must do all subjects you intend on counting in the one sitting. You cant combine results from different years.

you haven't been able to combine the best from 2 years for a long time though. once you pass english the first go, then it's counted as done and you don't need to do a whole new course the next year, so you may not have to count it in the first place. it may be different with the HPAT though.

cocopopsxx

OP, I'm aiming for Medicine too and was wondering about the same thing. I really hope I get it this year but God forbid, If I don't get it, then I'll definitely repeat. Don't rule out repeating as an option beacause tbh, repeating a year is a lot better than doing a course that you don't probably want to do for 3-4 years. So, don't rule out repeating as an option. My friend did the same but hated the course she was doing and at last she dropped out of college in November and is now repeating. So, yeah, repeating is the best option, IMO. :P

And as for repeating for medicine, you have to repeat English,Maths and Irish. As someone above said,it's not like other courses where you just need to meet the matriculation requirements once. My friend is repeating for medicine and she's repeating three of these along with her other subjects.

Anywho, I really hope you get it this time rather than repeating or doing some other course for 3-4 years. Good Luck!

MedMan101

oh yea, i'd definately repeat if I didnt get atleast 550! I'd much rather give it another chance than jump into a course id have little interest in! but what if you get enough lc points but not HPAT points? will you take a year out and repeat the HPAT or go into college doing a similar course and then repeat the HPAT? decisions,decisions....:(

cocopopsxx

^ I know someone who missed out on medicine in NUI by 3 points, he took the year off and just repeated the HPAT. I would do the same to be honest. I wouldn't bother doing some course in college and repeat the HPAT. :P Too much work for nothing, IMO.
But on the other hand, just repeating HPAT and doing nothing else for a year might not be a good idea. I dunno...I just confused myself more! I am just gonna study hard and hope I get it this year.

Darius.Tr

Looks like ther are lots of people who are planning to do medicine this year, would there be enough places for everyone ? (just wondering)

TigerIsa

No way there are nowhere near enough places, that's why the points are so high!

OP take the year out to repeat HPAT, after 550 each 5 LC points is only worth 1 so repeating LC would be pointless if you already got high points.
Also if you were to do another similar degree (science is a good basis one) you would have to pay around 15,000 to do medicine as a postgrad course! And this also equals 8 years in college... AFAIK if you drop out of a course after a year you have to pay fees for your new course so I wouldn't recommend starting anything in college!

I know someone who got 585, didn't get medicine, took a year out practising HPATs and going to courses on them, brought his HPAT up from 150 to 200 and could still avail of the free fees system. You can definitely teach yourself to do better.

Good luck on getting it first time though, I myself missed out by 9 points but couldn't be happier with my second choice course, college is sooo different to LC and I could never have hacked the workload of medicine so it worked out well for me!

theowen

First of all repeat the HPAT. Lots of people in my current med class repeated it and went up 50 or so points.

Otherwise you've two options. 1. do a course you're interested in(you just have to get a 2:1 to be eligible for the post grad route). Probs' the best because then you'll have a chance to enjoy the "normal" college experience which you won't get in Med. 2. Do a health science related course-something involving anatomy, biochem or physiology will help for first year. Lots of post grads and international post grads have biochem degrees and simply show up for the exam and pass. A science type degree will also help with the GAMSAT.

Ye can always go off to Budapest too!

AndrewJD

You want GAMSAT to be your last resort though. If you can possibly get in as an undergraduate, it's what you should aim for. Graduate entry is more competitive than undergraduate.

QueenOfLeon

If you don't want to take a full year out just to repeat the hpat, I'd advise you to start a science/health related course and apply to resit the hpat at the same time. If you don't get the points for medicine again, at least you're in a course that will lead you towards graduate med.

And yes, for medicine, you have to have all points and matriculation requirements in the same year. In my experience, "career guidance" teachers have no idea about the special requirements for medicine...if I had listened to my one I'd still be waiting on the CAO to magically apply to the HPAT for me :rolleyes: The little handbook about medicine that is on the CAO website has all the information you need.

MichaelFC

seriouslysweet wrote: »

As for not being long earning it back, the rates at which new docs are paid are awful, both my parents urging me not to do it. I'd say repeating would work out a whole lot cheaper!

Ha Ha! Well said.

I was waiting for someone to tell the truth on non-consultant hospital doctor pay.

I was going to post wage earnings since I graduated pre-recession but there's enough of a shortage of junior docs as is...

MichaelFC

I came here to get a better understanding of the HPAT as it wasn't aound when I applied back in the day. Turns out it's a royal pain in the a**


As for the original thread question, QueenOfLeon certainly answered it best.


I would however question the original poster's level of dedication.


M

MedMan101

MichaelFC wrote: »

I would however question the original poster's level of dedication. M

whats that supposed to mean?! I asked the question because im exploring other possible routes to entering the career. Therefore, I am clearly dedicated to this and will stop at nothing until I get it, even if it means 8 years of college!

QueenOfLeon

MedMan101 wrote: »

whats that supposed to mean?! I asked the question because im exploring other possible routes to entering the career. Therefore, I am clearly dedicated to this and will stop at nothing until I get it, even if it means 8 years of college!

I'd say its because you specified that repeating is a no no. Repeating, imo anyway, would be the much easier/cheaper/faster way to get into medicine, but as you said in a later post you're not worried about LC points, so its fair enough that you wouldn't want to repeat. Once you hit 550 anyway, theres not that much point.

Just aside from that, I wouldn't take graduate med for granted. The GAMSAT is not like any other exam you'd sit, its nothing like the hpat, and most people would take months, or up to a year, to study for it. Its a better idea to try and put everything into getting into undergrad med, than aim for the graduate route.

justniamh

theowen wrote: »

First of all repeat the HPAT. Lots of people in my current med class repeated it and went up 50 or so points.

Otherwise you've two options. 1. do a course you're interested in(you just have to get a 2:1 to be eligible for the post grad route). Probs' the best because then you'll have a chance to enjoy the "normal" college experience which you won't get in Med. 2. Do a health science related course-something involving anatomy, biochem or physiology will help for first year. Lots of post grads and international post grads have biochem degrees and simply show up for the exam and pass. A science type degree will also help with the GAMSAT.

Totally agree with this. I scraped into medicine this year but last year during the LC i was determined to definitely not repeat if i didnt get it. the leaving cert is a nightmare and so much stress, last thing i wanted to do was repeat!

Also agree with the normal college experience thing. Unless you do pre-med, which is still only 1 year, you won't really be able to relax or take your foot off the pedal starting from day 1. if you do a course you're genuinely interested in before medicine it would benefit you greatly I find. Also there's no harm in being that little bit older starting a career like this..

Having said that, half the people in my class are LC repeaters, so i suppose it depends what you're into!

Anyway judging by your points in the mocks it'd be unnecessary to repeat the leaving. go with HPAT repeats. i personally couldnt think of anything worse than repeating the leaving cert and then not getting the course a 2nd time... so i say start something you'll enjoy for the year that way if you get medicine,great, and if you don't, you're already a year into something else that you like.

Goodluck!

MedMan101

justniamh wrote: »

so i say start something you'll enjoy for the year that way if you get medicine,great, and if you don't, you're already a year into something else that you like.

Goodluck!

I thought that if you start a course and drop out for another course that you have to pay fees. I may be mistaken but thats what I heard!

NotExactly

MedMan101 wrote: »

I thought that if you start a course and drop out for another course that you have to pay fees. I may be mistaken but thats what I heard!

It depends how far into the year you drop out.

randylonghorn

MedMan101 wrote: »

I thought that if you start a course and drop out for another course that you have to pay fees. I may be mistaken but thats what I heard!

If you do first year of a course and then first year of another course, you will pay full fees the second time round. The "Free Fees Inititiative" (somewhat of a misnomer these days, but anyway) only covers you to do each year once in terms of fees.

That said, NotExactly is right, in that if you start a course and end up dropping out fairly quickly, you may get away with paying half fees the second time round or none at all (depending really on when the college reports its FTE stats to the HEA, each college will have details re: this available, usually on its website).

A Neurotic

theowen wrote: »

Probs' the best because then you'll have a chance to enjoy the "normal" college experience which you won't get in Med.

justniamh wrote: »

Also agree with the normal college experience thing. Unless you do pre-med, which is still only 1 year, you won't really be able to relax or take your foot off the pedal starting from day 1.

Little bit off-topic, but this idea is a pet hate of mine. There are far more demanding courses, speaking in terms of the first two years anyway. Pity the engineers and the dentists, and enjoy yourself in college.

[full disclosure - I'm an awful student and I fail a lot, but that's got nothing to do with the course. If I'd bothered my arse doing a week of real study every year I'd do ok in all my subjects]

Shan32591

A Neurotic wrote: »

Little bit off-topic, but this idea is a pet hate of mine. There are far more demanding courses, speaking in terms of the first two years anyway. Pity the engineers and the dentists, and enjoy yourself in college.

[full disclosure - I'm an awful student and I fail a lot, but that's got nothing to do with the course. If I'd bothered my arse doing a week of real study every year I'd do ok in all my subjects]

Got to agree with A Neurotic, just finished first year med, went out minimum 2 to 3 times every week, even managed to survive a platinum week, and still managed to pass all my exams (results came out yesterday), despite missing two physiology assessments and being away in Berlin for the entire study week before our midterm viva, in my opinion meds have one of the best social lives (in first year at least) and doing medicine doesn't mean you can't have a "normal" college experience.

theowen

Was more so referring to the clinical years lads. I've this idea ye have to lock yourself in the library 24/7 when that comes...

theowen

randylonghorn wrote: »

If you do first year of a course and then first year of another course, you will pay full fees the second time round. The "Free Fees Inititiative" (somewhat of a misnomer these days, but anyway) only covers you to do each year once in terms of fees.

That said, NotExactly is right, in that if you start a course and end up dropping out fairly quickly, you may get away with paying half fees the second time round or none at all (depending really on when the college reports its FTE stats to the HEA, each college will have details re: this available, usually on its website).

I was quoted early October in Trinners, not a lot of time...

Shan32591

theowen wrote: »

Was more so referring to the clinical years lads. I've this idea ye have to lock yourself in the library 24/7 when that comes...

as do most people in their final year of any course when final exams are approaching, after meeting fourth years on the biosoc trip I can honestly say they don't seem to be missing out on much

ptrlaurent

you could always try nursing.. as a nurse you will see the inner working of the hospital and get to work with medical staff on a day to day basis.. also the degree in nursing covers in great detail many aspects of medicine

MedMan101

ptrlaurent wrote: »

you could always try nursing.. as a nurse you will see the inner working of the hospital and get to work with medical staff on a day to day basis.. also the degree in nursing covers in great detail many aspects of medicine

ahhhhhhh no thanks.....

ptrlaurent

MedMan101 wrote: »

ahhhhhhh no thanks.....

well if your looking to go in the back door you should not be looking at all people who are not intelligent enough to get the points should not try ... period

NotExactly

ptrlaurent wrote: »

well if your looking to go in the back door you should not be looking at all people who are not intelligent enough to get the points should not try ... period

IMO almost anyone could get 600 points.

J_E

MedMan101 wrote: »

ahhhhhhh no thanks.....

Can I ask why not?

brownlad

ptrlaurent wrote: »

well if your looking to go in the back door you should not be looking at all people who are not intelligent enough to get the points should not try ... period

wayyyyyyyyyyyy .......



sorry carry on:)

pajero12

ptrlaurent wrote: »

well if your looking to go in the back door you should not be looking at all people who are not intelligent enough to get the points should not try ... period

That's one of the biggest loads of bullsh*t I've heard on boards so far, The LC is just a memory test!