Coach Bus versus Train - Galway Example

bk

For a long time I've believed that direct, non stop coach buses run by private companies on the motorways between all the cities of Ireland would greatly benefit intercity public transport and would probably end up killing intercity rail.

However I'll admit I'd never actually experienced it, until this weekend, when I took a trip by coach bus to Galway and I have to say I was blown away by the quality of the service and I'm more convinced then ever that bus coach is the future of intercity public transport in Ireland.

So here is my review for those interested. First of all I checked the train times and prices of my planned journey, which would cost €48 return and take 2 hours 45 minutes. Instead I went with Go Bus:

- Cost €20 return
- Included free wifi which worked fine for most of the length of the journey.
- Took 2 hours 30 minutes and I'm not kidding literally arrived in Galway on the minute and only 3 minutes late coming back!! A damn sight better then my experience on the train Dublin to Cork train.
- On board toilet which was cleaner then most toilets I see on the Cork - Dublin train.
- Seats were nice and comfortable.
- Ride was just as comfortable as the train and quieter.
- Drops you off at either Hueston or O'Connell Bridge, so one less Dublin bus journey there. I usually get DB/Luas from Hueston to O'Connell and then another bus home.

Downsides:
- No food for sale on board unlike IR (however given the cost and quality of Irish Rail food, some might consider that an advantage!!)
- Less leg room, it was a little tight for my 6 foot 2 friend, but she actually didn't mind so much.
- Less room on the table for PC. Fine for a netbook or ipad, but too small for a larger PC.
- More space in the overheads.

I also have to point out the excellent new Galway Coach Station. Clean, warm and a pleasure to use.

Finally we had to change the time of our return trip. Emailed gobus, got a reply in just 5 minutes that they changed the time of the booking, no extra charge. Brilliant customer service, an absolute pleasure to use.

If gobus or similar start operating such a great direct service to Cork, etc. I'll never use an intercity train again.

CIE

No...it's only the case that government policy is once again skewed against intercity rail.

Government provides nice new motorways (at rather astronomical cost to the taxpayer; wait until those costs catch up, and they just escalate the longer you have the motorway infrastructure), doesn't get in the way of private express bus operation, on one hand; and on the other hand, gets in the way of railway development by controlling the whole ball of wax, holds intercity rail average speeds down to less than 40 mph (except for Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast), basically impeding the implementation of modernisation that has literally existed for decades (yes, even traditional railway alignment when modernised is capable of rather high speeds that can lead to triple-digit average speeds, if invested in, and for cheaper than building TGV-style corridors). Remember, for every five new motor vehicles added to the motor vehicle "population", that means another acre of land is paved over.

By all means, be satisfied with what the government spoon-feeds ye...government loves complacency.

corktina

CIE wrote: »

No...it's only the case that government policy is once again skewed against intercity rail.

Government provides nice new motorways (at rather astronomical cost to the taxpayer; wait until those costs catch up, and they just escalate the longer you have the motorway infrastructure), doesn't get in the way of private express bus operation, on one hand; and on the other hand, gets in the way of railway development by controlling the whole ball of wax, holds intercity rail average speeds down to less than 40 mph (except for Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast), basically impeding the implementation of modernisation that has literally existed for decades (yes, even traditional railway alignment when modernised is capable of rather high speeds that can lead to triple-digit average speeds, if invested in, and for cheaper than building TGV-style corridors). Remember, for every five new motor vehicles added to the motor vehicle "population", that means another acre of land is paved over.

By all means, be satisfied with what the government spoon-feeds ye...government loves complacency.

zzzzz rhetoric....

Lapin

Indeed GoBus do offer an excellent non stop service between Galway and Dublin but its not much use for anyone living between the two cities.
So for passengers travelling from Ballinasloe or Athlone for example, the train still wins for speed.

City Link compete favourably for price and their direct connection to Dublin Airport. But it is slow, and the addition of an extra stop at Athlone College doesn't help.

Bus Éireann are more expensive and equally slow and the unnecessary piss break in Athlone should be abolished. It can often add up to 20 minutes onto the journey time and there is no need for it.

I fully agree in relation to Galway Coach Station. Its an excellent addition to the city and infinitely more comfortable than the Bus Éireann 'station' around the corner and a far cry from the old Fairgreen car park it replaced. As a point of arrival in Galway it gives a good first impression.

bk

CIE, the problem is, we were always going to need a high quality roads network. The advantage of a high quality road network is that unlike rail it can be used for multiple purposes.

- Private car owners
- Freight haulage
- Public transport

So the roads network was always going to be built before any upgrade to the rail network. A high quality roads network was just more important and more useful then a rail network.

So that now leaves us with two questions.

1) How do we maximise the use of the excellent road network we have in place?

I believe the answer is we open up all the motorways to high quality bus companies.

2) Now that we have this high quality road network, should we spends billions in upgrading rail to compete with the motorways? Or does the road network satisfy our needs.

IMO I increasingly believe that the road network, with high quality bus services on it, is good enough for our needs and that the billions required to upgrade the intercity rail network should instead be spent on urban rail like Dart underground and Metro North.

BTW IR have no one but themselves to blame. They spent billions on safety programs, but didn't also do what needed to be done to speed up services at the same time.

Lapin wrote: »

Indeed GoBus do offer an excellent non stop service between Galway and Dublin but its not much use for anyone living between the two cities.
So for passengers travelling from Ballinasloe or Athlone for example, the train still wins for speed.

I know this may sound harsh. But we here in Ireland need to forget about the needs of every two bit town and village in Ireland and instead focus on the needs of the cities as a first priority.

That means high quality direct bus services between every city.

Of course you can then also have parallel stopping services like City Link and Bus Eireann operate for the smaller towns along the way. But you have correctly identified that such services can also benefit from improvements of better buses with on board toilets, wifi and no long toilet break.

AS for the train, certainly if it is faster, keep using it. But you should be paying the true full price for it and I don't think it should be so heavily subsidised by the tax payer. It would then be up to you to decide what is more important, your time or money.

Lapin wrote: »

I fully agree in relation to Galway Coach Station. Its an excellent addition to the city and infinitely more comfortable than the Bus Éireann 'station' around the corner and a far cry from the old Fairgreen car park it replaced. As a point of arrival in Galway it gives a good first impression.

Here, here, I was very impressed on arriving in Galway. It felt like a nice modern European city. Much better then standing on the street in the cold and rain waiting for the coach in Dublin. On the other hand, I do like that they drop you off at O'Connell Bridge, very convenient.

popebenny16

CIE wrote: »

No...it's only the case that government policy is once again skewed against intercity rail.

Government .... holds intercity rail average speeds down to less than 40 mph (except for Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast), basically impeding the implementation of modernisation that has literally existed for

you are seriously saying that it is government policy to keep line speeds down to 40mph??

Not Irish Rail mismanagments fault at all so! I'm converted.

veryangryman

Conservatives, Purists, the elderly and the rotund will always favour the train over the bus regardless of cost i find

bk

veryangryman wrote: »

Conservatives, Purists, the elderly and the rotund will always favour the train over the bus regardless of cost i find

That is fine, but let them pay the full, real price and not have it be subsidised by the rest of us.

westtip

Lapin wrote: »

Indeed GoBus do offer an excellent non stop service between Galway and Dublin but its not much use for anyone living between the two cities.
So for passengers travelling from Ballinasloe or Athlone for example, the train still wins for speed.

City Link compete favourably for price and their direct connection to Dublin Airport. But it is slow, and the addition of an extra stop at Athlone College doesn't help.

Bus Éireann are more expensive and equally slow and the unnecessary piss break in Athlone should be abolished. It can often add up to 20 minutes onto the journey time and there is no need for it.

I fully agree in relation to Galway Coach Station. Its an excellent addition to the city and infinitely more comfortable than the Bus Éireann 'station' around the corner and a far cry from the old Fairgreen car park it replaced. As a point of arrival in Galway it gives a good first impression.

Yonks ago I can't find it perhaps someone could post a link to it there was a thread suggesgin the new motorways should be treated as new arterial public transport routes with small "mini bus stations" just off the junctions at key juntions along the route. For example on the N6 Athlone bypass a small bus station at say the Roscommon Road (N61) interchange, and at other towns along the way - so the bus could drop off and pick up passengers quickly at these small mini bus stations, with good taxi and minibus services to these out of town centre bus halts near the junction of the motorways woud allow the bus service to provide a stopping service as well as a the fas direct services - the idea of the bus pulling off the N6 then going into Athlone rail/bus station and then working its way back to the N6 does cost at least 25 minutes in time. Real time information could be fed to passengers at these "out of town centre" bus halts near the motorway junctions with electronic displays of next bus coming etc - and this kind of bus interchange could be built into the likes of the proposed interchange of the N6 and N17/18 just west of Athenry. Anyway - you probably get the point. Perhaps someone can fish out that old thread on this line of thought they might post a link to it.

dowlingm

The problem with Galway Train Station is the same as Cork. CIE saw a property development opportunity and made a balls of it. The only people who got any work were the fellas who make renderings.

veryangryman

westtip wrote: »

Yonks ago I can't find it perhaps someone could post a link to it there was a thread suggesgin the new motorways should be treated as new arterial public transport routes with small "mini bus stations" just off the junctions at key juntions along the route. For example on the N6 Athlone bypass a small bus station at say the Roscommon Road (N61) interchange, and at other towns along the way - so the bus could drop off and pick up passengers quickly at these small mini bus stations, with good taxi and minibus services to these out of town centre bus halts near the junction of the motorways woud allow the bus service to provide a stopping service as well as a the fas direct services - the idea of the bus pulling off the N6 then going into Athlone rail/bus station and then working its way back to the N6 does cost at least 25 minutes in time. Real time information could be fed to passengers at these "out of town centre" bus halts near the motorway junctions with electronic displays of next bus coming etc - and this kind of bus interchange could be built into the likes of the proposed interchange of the N6 and N17/18 just west of Athenry. Anyway - you probably get the point. Perhaps someone can fish out that old thread on this line of thought they might post a link to it.

Citylink are light years ahead in that regard (with the Athlone stop anyway).

Stop is just off the motorway so you only lose ~5 minutes from the journey - no bullsh1t traffic in and out of town. Happy days.

That said, they have now decided to use the IT as a second Athlone stop, completely negating the positive effects.

Personally id only take the bus if going to airport as the cost of it all (€30 in petrol, more in tolls + longterm parking) versus €2 return on the Citylink is a no brainer.

But they could do with speeding the thing up. 3 hours from Athlone to the airport - why the feck dont they do the airport BEFORE the city. Surely people are in more hurry to catch a plane than do whatever they want in the city.

LXFlyer

veryangryman wrote: »

Citylink are light years ahead in that regard (with the Athlone stop anyway).

Stop is just off the motorway so you only lose ~5 minutes from the journey - no bullsh1t traffic in and out of town. Happy days.

That said, they have now decided to use the IT as a second Athlone stop, completely negating the positive effects.

Personally id only take the bus if going to airport as the cost of it all (€30 in petrol, more in tolls + longterm parking) versus €2 return on the Citylink is a no brainer.

But they could do with speeding the thing up. 3 hours from Athlone to the airport - why the feck dont they do the airport BEFORE the city. Surely people are in more hurry to catch a plane than do whatever they want in the city.

Bus Eireann X20 operates direct to the Airport from Athlone.

veryangryman

lxflyer wrote: »

Bus Eireann X20 operates direct to the Airport from Athlone.

Not for €2 though...

Im nit picking but still...

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Not for €2 though...

Im nit picking but still...

Also...

Frequently late with zero apology
Taking the affore mentioned needless p1ss stop
Letting people off by request (ive seen it done)
Machine on bus unavailable for online tickets (which was fine - i got my trip free)

Just very unprofessional in comparion to Citylinks i find

C4Kid

I've been on the Cork - Dublin route a few times on Aircraft(Ryanair), Trains (IE) and Buses (Aircoach).

Flying up the last time was quite cheap €15 one way and in less than 40 mins. If You're leaving late at night flying isn't an option.

Aircoach are €20 return ,that's good ,but it stops at nearly every town along the way and stays off the motorway for quite a substantial part of the journey between towns.

It is possible to go Return to Dublin €20 but You have to leave on very early or very late trains which suites sometimes but usually I have to go up on the train and come back by plane. Even better !

The bus would always be the last resort out of the 3 for me.

bk

C4Kid wrote: »

The bus would always be the last resort out of the 3 for me.

But that is because there is no non stop direct bus service to Cork at the moment.

Would the bus still be your third choice if it could do Cork to Dublin in 3 hours for €20 return at anytime (not just offpeak), with toilet on board and free wifi?

veryangryman

bk wrote: »

But that is because there is no non stop direct bus service to Cork at the moment.

Would the bus still be your third choice if it could do Cork to Dublin in 3 hours for €20 return at anytime (not just offpeak), with toilet on board and free wifi?

I think the buses have to stop every 2 and a half hours legally in the absense of food served on board - i could be wrong.

In the UK, they dont take a break Sheffield-London Vic, but the drivers are changed at one of the services. That could work here. Let them change driver around Portlaoise or Urlingford/Culahill (cant remember what that junction is but you get the pic).

About the 3 hours thing, i dont know if thats realistic on a bus considering the slow urban ride out of and into either city. Corks a good 2 and a half hours with a heavy foot from even the M50, and thats with the car!

schemingbohemia

bk wrote: »

So here is my review for those interested. First of all I checked the train times and prices of my planned journey, which would cost €48 return and take 2 hours 45 minutes. Instead I went with Go Bus:

I've a €16 return fare on the train to Galway this weekend. How long in advance did you try and book your train? Did you try and use the O2 discount code available here?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056159198

bk

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I've a €16 return fare on the train to Galway this weekend. How long in advance did you try and book your train? Did you try and use the O2 discount code available here?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056159198

Only a few days before and I was traveling peak time. Of course last weekend was the bank holiday weekend, so extra busy.

A couple of cheap tickets don't change the point. The cheap tickets are relatively rare. You get cheap tickets on the bus at all times, doesn't matter off-peak or peak or if you book a month in advance or just turn up on the day.

BTW Citlink to Galway now do tickets from just €1 if you book in advance.

Plus doesn't take into account fee wifi and the fact that the bus is 25 minutes faster.

serfboard

bk wrote: »

But that is because there is no non stop direct bus service to Cork at the moment.

Would the bus still be your third choice if it could do Cork to Dublin in 3 hours for €20 return at anytime (not just offpeak), with toilet on board and free wifi?

Correct. The way I judge GoBus is 2 hours Dougiska->M50. 15 mins Galway->Doughiska and 15 mins M50->City Centre (using bus lanes) gives you 2.5 hours.

veryangryman wrote: »

About the 3 hours thing, i dont know if thats realistic on a bus considering the slow urban ride out of and into either city. Corks a good 2 and a half hours with a heavy foot from even the M50, and thats with the car!

Are you including Cork City traffic in that - what about Dunkettle->M50, which, I would imagine would take just a little over 2 hours? Add in the free wi-fi and that's quite a nice journey. Plus you get bus lanes in Dublin and Cork, no fuel/depreciation costs and no tolls.