Starting up farm. What cow for suckler?

ltec

Starting up my fathers farm again and would like some advice on what type of cow you would recommend.
Something easy calved as its only part time and dont want hassle with vets. Ive read salers are good cows but very wild, anyone tried these and what calves out of them.
I bought 5 wee heifers and 1 is a fleckvieh, any 1 any experience with these and what comes from them?
My father always said not to bull the cow with the same breed as her because she will have difficulty calving, is this true and would the calf be a three quarter breed then.
He never had aberdeen angus and he said there to small, but when i read on the internet a lot of people uses aberdeen angus. Would there calves end up smaller or would they have trouble calving bigger breeds.
Try not to use abreviations for cattle or ill not know what your talking about.
Sorry in advance if these are silly questions.

blue5000

Hi OP, welcome to boards.

I have a few different breeds of su cow, most are angus cross british freisian, also some hereford X, limousin X, belgian blue X, all to british fresian. No simmentals.

In my view the best cows are belgian blue X angus, but you'll get a different opinion from every suckler farmer in the country! Some ppl think Limousin X fr are the best cows, it all depends on your farm and your system, whether you finish the calves yourself or sell weanlings.

ltec

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi OP, welcome to boards.

I have a few different breeds of su cow, most are angus cross british freisian, also some hereford X, limousin X, belgian blue X, all to british fresian. No simmentals.

In my view the best cows are belgian blue X angus, but you'll get a different opinion from every suckler farmer in the country! Some ppl think Limousin X fr are the best cows, it all depends on your farm and your system, whether you finish the calves yourself or sell weanlings.

I dont understand what a belgian blue x angus is. does this mean a belgian blue calf out of an angus would make a good cow or vice versa. In the market it doesnt usually say what the mother was. its just a belgian blue for eg
Is calves out of a angus smaller which would then make less money

whelan1

ltec wrote: »

I dont understand what a belgian blue x angus is. does this mean a belgian blue calf out of an angus would make a good cow or vice versa. In the market it doesnt usually say what the mother was. its just a belgian blue for eg
Is calves out of a angus smaller which would then make less money

traditional british angus are smaller most of the angus now have canadian breeding in them which have great size and length

5live

ltec wrote: »

Starting up my fathers farm again and would like some advice on what type of cow you would recommend.
Something easy calved as its only part time and dont want hassle with vets. Ive read salers are good cows but very wild, anyone tried these and what calves out of them.
I bought 5 wee heifers and 1 is a fleckvieh, any 1 any experience with these and what comes from them?
My father always said not to bull the cow with the same breed as her because she will have difficulty calving, is this true and would the calf be a three quarter breed then.
He never had aberdeen angus and he said there to small, but when i read on the internet a lot of people uses aberdeen angus. Would there calves end up smaller or would they have trouble calving bigger breeds.
Try not to use abreviations for cattle or ill not know what your talking about.
Sorry in advance if these are silly questions.

Fleckvieh is just another name for an austrian simmental or simmentals in general.

In terms of cows, angus x would be a good bet as they are generally easy to manage and will do most of the work for you, as will the whitehead(hereford) x cow. As to putting them in calf, use an angus or hereford bull as they are common(for a reason) as they are generally easier calved. Once you get better experience you can move onto the continental breeds (charlois, limousin simmental etc). If useing ai, ask your ai man what to use as they come across many people starting off who dont want much trouble calving and will suggest a bull to use. Just my opinion but its how i started off and i did ok:)

Finno59

have u considered salers? some say stone mad :eek: but have good milk and can calf hard calving bulls. Crossed with a hereford id say wouldnt be too bad at all.

renandstimpy

ltec wrote: »

Starting up my fathers farm again and would like some advice on what type of cow you would recommend.
Something easy calved as its only part time and dont want hassle with vets. Ive read salers are good cows but very wild, anyone tried these and what calves out of them.

I have saler (20) cows some mad:mad::eek: and others ok :rolleyes:tried a lot of different bulls (angus , saler , lm )but the best breed i found was crossing charlaois (easy calving ai) and the calfs were lovely golden coloured and well made with good muscel and conformation the females will be kept and hopefully replace the salers being a bit more docile, some bred back to bb ai easy calving and others to lm big muscel.

k mac

ltec wrote: »

I dont understand what a belgian blue x angus is. does this mean a belgian blue calf out of an angus would make a good cow or vice versa. In the market it doesnt usually say what the mother was. its just a belgian blue for eg
Is calves out of a angus smaller which would then make less money

Does the x stand for cross, as in the cow was out of a bb cow crossed with a angus bull or vice versa ?

Bizzum

Nothing wrong with a few LimX or SimX cows or BaX if they can be got.
I suppose the first thing to establish is What type of weanlings you'd like to produce, what market you're aiming for and the usual considerations like ground type, experience, set-up, interest etc.

renandstimpy

k mac wrote: »

Does the x stand for cross, as in the cow was out of a bb cow crossed with a angus bull or vice versa ?

yes kmac you are on the money , the x does stand for cross .
And normally anyone advertising or describing a breed as eg. BB x AA would stand for this animal being out of a belgian blue cow and an angus bull.:)

dizzle with ur frizzle

best cow of all is def a belgian blue cow cross fresian. (means a cow that its mother was a fresian, and its father a belgian blue). so that the cow will have lots of milk from the fresain, and will also pass muscle from the blue side. put this cow to a charlois or limousin and you will have excellent stock.. now when i say put it to these bulls, it cant be any aul scut of a bull. some lads think they know what quality is when it comes to cattle. between myself and my father we have 140 sucklers, we have most breeds. all crossed back to a charlois. we find the cow ive mentioned to be the best. black limousin be another great cow. id def try stay away from the charlois cow. it kills me to say but an angus x frisian, makes a great little cow. little bonus with the angus is that nearly all calves are polly (no de-horning needed as they dont have horns). id recommend you calve these cows down between sept and jan. now some people say it costs more to have autunm born calves cause cows eat more, this is bull scutter.. advantage of this time of calving is that in the winter, we all know that cows will dry up a certain amount, so, with these cows they will still have enough milk to carry on the calf for the winter. when you let them out on fresh grass, she will be bursting with milk, but dont worry bout mastitas or that because she will have a big calf suckling away. when it comes to the weanling sales, thats when it will show this way of breeding and this type of cows, pays off. dont ever be fooled by the look of a cow. could be the fanciest looking cow in the yard, but she might not be able to rear a kitten. ive had these. so, moral of the story is, belgian blue x frisian is your best option. 1000 euro a weanling!!!!!;)

pakalasa

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

so, moral of the story is, belgian blue x frisian is your best option. 1000 euro a weanling!!!!!;)

Only problem is calving. I agree with everything else. You're taking the hardest calving cow and crossing her to one of the hardest calving bulls, in general terms anyway.
Do you have many c-sections?

Birdnuts

Are you in the West or on heavy land?? - I have found Angus X works for my small place in North Mayo:)

Finno59

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

best cow of all is def a belgian blue cow cross fresian. (means a cow that its mother was a fresian, and its father a belgian blue). so that the cow will have lots of milk from the fresain, and will also pass muscle from the blue side. put this cow to a charlois or limousin and you will have excellent stock..!;)

pakalasa wrote: »

Only problem is calving. I agree with everything else. You're taking the hardest calving cow and crossing her to one of the hardest calving bulls, in general terms anyway.
Do you have many c-sections?

would agree with this, have a friesianX blue cow and she had a charolais bull calf , calf is very well muscled, but as pakalasa said it was a section! he wasnt even a big calf when born.

bogman_bass

we are running BBxFR cows and must say i've a big fan. nice quiet cows with muscle and milk.
we only use easy calving LM bulls on them though. wouldnt dream of putting a CH on them.
Because they have the muscle they still trow a great calf from the limo. Have a cracking calf from one of these cows by FL22.
Also have a HE calf out of one of them and I'm happy with the cross. Recon she'll make a good cow.

blue5000

I'd go another generation, put a BBx fr in calf to an angus bull. Those heifers are very close to what the scots call a blue grey. Half angus, quarter BB, quarter british freisian. Has anybody got any of these?

bogman_bass

I recon that the whitehead would be a slightly better cross. Bit more width in the pins than the angus which is the one thing The BBxFR lacks. but at the same time the angus cross should give a good cow IMO

Rollant46

In my opinion a good limousin X charolais or a nice flecivick wouldnt be too bad of a suckler cow to start off with. I know that im going ta get shafted for saying is cos as most people say limousins are mad and but thats what we have on our farm and they are as quiet as snails:):)

dizzle with ur frizzle

Finno59 wrote: »

would agree with this, have a friesianX blue cow and she had a charolais bull calf , calf is very well muscled, but as pakalasa said it was a section! he wasnt even a big calf when born.

pakalasa wrote: »

Only problem is calving. I agree with everything else. You're taking the hardest calving cow and crossing her to one of the hardest calving bulls, in general terms anyway.
Do you have many c-sections?

im not bragging, but our charlois bulls are top top quality, extremely well muscled. we only have had 1 c section over the last 4 year, thats calving down over 100 cows per year. the cow was a big framed sim x. 1 month before calving, the cows are fed only hay. cows do spit out the calves. if we have to assist any cows, it might be with a slight pull. we like to pick a bull with a small head. its all down to the diet and fitness of the cow too as we all know, some lads do say you should have the blue bull to the black limo. i do agree, but you will have as good, if not better calves from the blue x cow to the charlois or limo bull. thats my own opinion.

dizzle with ur frizzle

Rollant46 wrote: »

In my opinion a good limousin X charolais or a nice flecivick wouldnt be too bad of a suckler cow to start off with. I know that im going ta get shafted for saying is cos as most people say limousins are mad and but thats what we have on our farm and they are as quiet as snails:):)

we have limousin cows too. you are right, they are known to be mad. but i do put that down to who ever handles the cattle. all ours are placid quiet cattle. now they dont come up and rub against you, but weather in the shed or the field. i or my father can walk straight up to them, well with any of the cattle really.

ellewood

dizzle with ur frizzle wrote: »

im not bragging, but our charlois bulls are top top quality, extremely well muscled. we only have had 1 c section over the last 4 year, thats calving down over 100 cows per year. the cow was a big framed sim x. 1 month before calving, the cows are fed only hay. cows do spit out the calves. if we have to assist any cows, it might be with a slight pull. we like to pick a bull with a small head. its all down to the diet and fitness of the cow too as we all know, some lads do say you should have the blue bull to the black limo. i do agree, but you will have as good, if not better calves from the blue x cow to the charlois or limo bull. thats my own opinion.

can i ask what breeding bloodlines are in the charolais bulls?

how long are the getting hay before calving and is it ad lib or restricted?

is there any other thngs you do before they calf eg minerals or bolosus or vitamins ect?

thanks

dizzle with ur frizzle

ellewood wrote: »

can i ask what breeding bloodlines are in the charolais bulls?

how long are the getting hay before calving and is it ad lib or restricted?

is there any other thngs you do before they calf eg minerals or bolosus or vitamins ect?

thanks

no, its a secret, joke, to be honest i dont know the blood lines off top of my head, but both bulls have blakestown blood lines along the way

they have mineral buckets in shed (nothing hectic) all depends if cattle are in. if they are, they get beet with powdered minerals srpead across the beet up to 4 to 6 weeks before calving, then are put in the calving shed which holds 30, and are fed only hay with the mineral bucket in shed. beet is a great man, for keeping condition on the cows after they calve. they have hay in front of them at all times, this is done to stop cows bull dozing each other to get at it which reduces any cattle getting hurt.

mjcom4d

Salers and Simmental cows dont mind about puttin them back to the same breed unless it's a blue

49801

the recent teagus study comparing the LW of offspring from different cross breeds of cows confirms how importance milk traits on the maternal side.

pakalasa

49801 wrote: »

the recent teagus study comparing the LW of offspring from different cross breeds of cows confirms how importance milk traits on the maternal side.

Yep, there's nothing worst than seeing a fine big cow with great frame and shape, and the calf under her looks like it's suffering from malnutrition for want of milk. Been there!
Can't beat the Bainne!