Faulty suspension kit

peanuthead

Hi

I need some advice on this situation I find myself in.

I'm shaking with the rage and fright right now to be honest, which is probably a little OTT, but anyway, here's what happened:

I bought a suspension kit from an online UK store five weeks ago. When it arrived about a week later, I got it fitted immediately by a qualified mechanic friend as a nixer.

I have been driving around on it ever since. The car is a Ford Puma, 00, 1.7. I'm a female driver and while I'm not saying I always adhere to all the speed limits, I am by no means a girl racer, we're talking the likes of 90km in an 80 zone and such.

Earlier today I was coming out of a garage when I hit a pothole. Not a huge one but one you would feel. When all of a sudden I heard and felt this huge bang. I immediately knew something was wrong and turned down the radio.

I could hear a rattle. The car just didn't feel right. As I've no knowledge of cars I obviously thought straight away that the car was falling apart, hence the shaking with fright.

Got it as far as the OHs house and he had a look. When I got out though I could see that the back of the car was way lower than it should have been - the wheel arch was level with the tyre!!

He had a look. This is what he told me had happened, so I hope this makes sense: The spring perch was sitting at the bottom of the shock - the spring had fully extended. The spring perch had been ripped from the strut.

Basically, what he explained to me in terms I could understand was that two parts of the suspension that had been welded together and should have, by no means come apart, had.

He couldn't believe what he was seeing and didn't believe me that I just hit a pothole.

I am seething with rage now. Our friend who put in the suspension is collecting the car, he just so happens to have the old stuff that was taken out 4 weeks ago and he is going to put the old back ones in but he said I can't even drive it to him, he will have to come back and tow it.

The suspension cost me a modest 300euro. We bought it based on the positive reviews it got (a) online and (b) we have bought things from this site before that have been fine.

But I just want my money back. I know it might be very girly but I just couldn't accept a new set or replacement. I just can no longer trust their equipment in my car.

Can I get a refund? Do I have to take a replacement? Will they claim my issue is with the co.council?

Mods, I am going to put a duplicate of this thread in Consumer Issues, only because of the unique nature of the problem and the terminology involved, while Motors people can advise me on the problem, Consumer Issues people can help me take the next steps.

Please don't delete either thread, I'm at my wits end. Have tried to call company but they're not open. Will email tomorrow and I'm going to take pics, which I will post here too.

thanks,
p.

Midnight_EG

You bought vital suspension parts for a cheap enough price, so as the saying goes...buy cheap, buy twice unfortunately. The pothole must have been bigger than you anticipated


What make were the bits you bought, which I'm assuming is just four shocks/springs you bought?

mickdw

Im sure the supplier will do everything they can to put the situation right for you. Take pics of it failed on the car too.
What you describe is a very serious failure and I would suggest that that spring seat should not fail under any circumstance.
I understand the way you feel not trusting this stuff anymore. Im sure they will give a refund without question.

peanuthead

Midnight_EG wrote: »

You bought vital suspension parts for a cheap enough price, so as the saying goes...buy cheap, buy twice unfortunately. The pothole must have been bigger than you anticipated


What make were the bits you bought, which I'm assuming is just four shocks/springs you bought?

Actually, from what I can see, they weren't that cheap. They weren't that expensive, but before labour, they don't seem to be any more expensive than I would have bought here. I will obviously buy from here from now on, but as I said, things had been bought from that site before which were fine.

Yes, just four shocks, 4 springs. GMax was the make.

So, getting back to your 'saying' - I understand that by buying cheaper you may not be getting the very same quality as buying more expensive - although that is not always the case either - but I think that by selling equipment that poses a health and safety risk is a bit beyond. This is a little more than 'not as good quality as paying a little extra' this is faulty goods.

I will also take a picture of the pothole. Yes it was big enough - another thing that really pi**es me off about Irish roads, but that's for another thread - but come on - the suspension is 4 weeks old!! I expect to be able to drive over much more than that before it gives out!

Do you think this company is obliged to refund me or not? I think so, but I would like to be sure before I go full steam ahead with my demands.

EDIT: Okay I've just been looking up reviews for them and seemingly, for what they are (supposed to be), they are very cheap - I must have been pricing them against regular standard ones - but reviews I see now and the ones I saw before buying them say they are fine.

Reloc8

Where is the company based ?

Did you buy on credit card ?

How can you be sure the product was not fine but the installation was faulty ?

If you're serious about claiming a refund you'd be well off having the installation documented (pictures & independent report) to say it was done properly - independent means not by your friend who was doing the nixer.

peanuthead

Reloc8 wrote: »

Where is the company based ?

Did you buy on credit card ?

How can you be sure the product was not fine but the installation was faulty ?

If you're serious about claiming a refund you'd be well off having the installation documented (pictures & independent report) to say it was done properly - independent means not by your friend who was doing the nixer.

Of course I'm serious about claiming a refund! I was thinking this part would be a problem, but how do I get an independent report stating that the installation was not faulty if my friend did it in his place of work without anyone standing over him watching?

Also, I should mention that at present the suspension is off the car, he is putting the old one back on as I need my car for work in the morning - I work 20 miles from home and have evening work too after it - I can't be without the car - he has taken pictures of the suspension in the car before removing it but I cant leave the faulty suspension in long enough to hire an independent person to travel to my friends house and assess the work that was done on the car.

By getting an independent report, should I have left the suspension on the car? Or can the parts be examined after coming off?

Reloc8 - you are right, I don't know that the installation was faulty instead of the parts, but seeing as my friend has all the required tools (not just bashing things in with hammers etc..) and has changed suspension countless times, I am taking his word when he says that he did the job right. He also did my timing belt and other work on my previous car and all was up to standard.

This is my big problem - I'm way out of my depth as I barely know the first thing about cars and I really don't know what is going on - all I know is now I'm afraid to drive my car and I have a job which is 20 miles from home and not on any straightforward bus or train route - I can't afford to have my car off the road so that suspension needs to come off today

Nissan doctor

If the spring platform has snapped off the shock body then it can't be a fitting issue. Gmax don't have a bad name as a budget shock/spring kit although problems with them are not unheard of, sagging springs is a common one.

If the UK supplier is a reputable one then you should be able to get a refund if thats what you want as a failure like that could have been very serious. If that had happened in the middle of a bend it could have ended badly:eek:

CiniO

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If the spring platform has snapped off the shock body then it can't be a fitting issue. Gmax don't have a bad name as a budget shock/spring kit although problems with them are not unheard of, sagging springs is a common one.

If the UK supplier is a reputable one then you should be able to get a refund if thats what you want as a failure like that could have been very serious. If that had happened in the middle of a bend it could have ended badly:eek:

Only what they might try to do, is to refund (exchange) only one shock absorber, as it was the only one part faulty.

Nissan doctor

CiniO wrote: »

Only what they might try to do, is to refund (exchange) only one shock absorber, as it was the only one part faulty.

I think it would be in the suppliers best interest to offer a full refund if requested as, if the failure is as above, then it is a serious safety issue and the customer/OP has no way of ensuring the quality/safety of the other shocks.

peanuthead

Hi all. I wrote to the company. This is what I said.

Good Afternoon.

My name is XXXXXXX and I am writing to you to complain about a product that I bought from your website on 24th March 2011.

I bought 4 GMAX shocks and springs for my Ford Puma from your website five weeks ago. Upon receipt of them one week later I had them fitted to my car. I was very impressed with the delivery time and was happy to have my new suspension fitted within a week of it's arrival.

My suspension was fitted by a qualified mechanic. However, on Monday evening, while driving I hit an average sized pot-hole in the road, causing my car to make a huge banging noise. I instantly knew something was not right and I stopped driving immediately. When I got out of my car I could see my rear wheel arches were level with my tyres. Upon checking the back suspension it became clear that the spring perch was sitting at the bottom of the shock - the spring had fully extended. The spring perch had been ripped from the strut.

This suspension was only one month old and clearly faulty. My faith in the product that I bought from you is now gone and as a result of that I no longer feel safe having any of the four shocks and springs on my car. I feel very lucky not to have been injured myself in the process but cannot help worrying about the potential danger my safety was in while driving with this product fitted on my car.

This is a serious issue that could have caused me serious harm. It is my belief that by keeping the other 3 springs and shocks on my car I am still in danger of said harm. I am seeking a full refund for the entire set of shocks and springs I bought from you.

Furthermore, I would like to point out to you the further personal and financial trouble this problem has cost me. I have had to spend money getting my car towed to a garage, I have had to pay to have the faulty suspension removed and my old suspension refitted so that I wouldn't be without my car. I will also have to pay postage costs if you decide you want me to send you the suspension and I will also have to pay out labour costs for a second fitting when I eventually buy a second set of springs and shocks. All of this is going to cost me money which should not be at my expense.

I can supply photographs of the fault in the suspension while it is still on my car if needed.

Please reply to this message immediately as failure to do so will result in me taking this matter to the European Consumer Centre.

Yours,
XX XX

They replied with this:

Hi Sorry to hear about your problem but pot holes can do a lot of damage its worth whilst putting a claim in to the local council for damages to your car but if you send us up pictures of the shocks we can speak to the manufacturer and see what they can do for us.
Cheers

This is what I have ready to send back - is it okay?

I think that you must agree that being able to withstand the effects of pot-holes is the point of suspension. If the parts were second hand or old I could understand, but brand new parts - which are supposed to be of a higher spec than average - should not deteriorate as easy.

Suspension is a vital part of any car and it has to meet safety requirements and standards surely. I am afraid that I do not accept that my local council are at fault here as I am confident that they would agree that although pot-holes on our roads are not desireable, they are a reality and 4 week old suspension should be able to handle them.

The pictures are attached.

Thank You.



Thanks for reading.

peanuthead

Also, don't know how to upload an image to here that is from my desktop!!

Big Nasty

I wouldn't have mentioned the pot hole TBH (or not)

peanuthead

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I wouldn't have mentioned the pot hole TBH (or not)

Yeah I was thinking this after I wrote it but then at the same time, if the part is faulty, it's faulty. I mean the pot-hole was really quite modest, I am absolutely sure that it definitely helped the shock out of place, but it was well on its way there already and that maybe I'd have gotten an extra 20 miles or so before it came out by itself anyway.

keithclancy

peanuthead wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking this after I wrote it but then at the same time, if the part is faulty, it's faulty. I mean the pot-hole was really quite modest, I am absolutely sure that it definitely helped the shock out of place, but it was well on its way there already and that maybe I'd have gotten an extra 20 miles or so before it came out by itself anyway.

Yes but the problem is now that you have admitted partial fault for hitting the pothole, the pothole could be anything from a massive trench in the road to a small hole.

How are they to know ?

They shouldn't really have a leg to stand on here if the shock broke as you describe, if it started leaking after hitting a pothole they could no doubt say tough sh1t but not after it breaking like this.

You should have sent a picture of the damage to them so they can see how much of an epic f up it is.

Said danger & furthermore though, lol :pac:

peanuthead

RoverJames wrote: »

They shouldn't really have a leg to stand on here if the shock broke as you describe, if it started leaking after hitting a pothole they could no doubt say tough sh1t but not after it breaking like this.

You should have sent a picture of the damage to them so they can see how much of an epic f up it is.

Said danger & furthermore though, lol :pac:

I did send them pics, I just attached them from my desktop, I want to also put them up here but I don't know how to do that as the only option for putting up photos is to put in a URL.

You know what too - out of the four weeks that I've had the suspension on it has only been driving for 3 of those as I was in Spain for a week, I wish I had the accurate mileage that was done on them!

@ Furthermore and said danger - I'm trying to be formal!!!!

mickdw

You had a serious failure. No way should any suspension fail at that point. i remember Peugeot did a recall a few years back over fears of a collapse just like you had - I think it was down to rusting. They did 10 year partners free I believe.
Do not accept any crap. IMO, there would need to be serious direct hit damage to the wheel area for a failure of this nature to be acceptable

PaulKK

peanuthead wrote: »

I want to also put them up here but I don't know how to do that as the only option for putting up photos is to put in a URL.

Just click the attachment button (paper clip) when writing your post, that should work for you.

peanuthead

mickdw wrote: »

IMO, there would need to be serious direct hit damage to the wheel area for a failure of this nature to be acceptable

Yes I agree with this, and there is NO damage done to my car at all, except this faulty shock, which I think should prove that the pot-hole was modest and that I wasn't flying along. Here are the pics so, hope this works:

Edit: First one is to show the shift in the back - how far down it went. Don't know what all the red is, must be some kind of glare. There is a slight bump in the arch there but that was there since I bought the car and there would be plenty more pictures and the previous owner to back that up

Welease

BTW... there should be no need for you to spend money on an Independent report at this time..

The UK sales of goods act (1979) puts the onus on the retailer to prove there wasn't a fault in the product for all products under 6 months old.. It's only after 6 months that its up to you to prove a fault existed.

If you don't get satisfaction, then you can claim via the European Small Claims court.

peanuthead

Welease wrote: »

BTW... there should be no need for you to spend money on an Independent report at this time..

The UK sales of goods act (1979) puts the onus on the retailer to prove there wasn't a fault in the product for all products under 6 months old.. It's only after 6 months that its up to you to prove a fault existed.

If you don't get satisfaction, then you can claim via the European Small Claims court.

Thanks.

I was also thinking that surely there should be a warranty on these parts so getting a refund shouldn't be a problem.

Do I only have a certain time frame to edit posts? I wanted to edit my first post to include the images I posted in my last post but I can't anymore.

Welease

peanuthead wrote: »

Thanks.

I was also thinking that surely there should be a warranty on these parts so getting a refund shouldn't be a problem.

Well sadly.. not exactly.. neither the UK or Irish consumer law specifies who gets to choose the remedy.. It has to be replace, repair or refund.. and in Ireland (albeit which doesnt count in your case), if the retailer offers a repair/replace you have the right to decline and take it to the SCC, but you might not win, as they have offered a perfectly legal remedy. In short, legally you are not specifically allowed to dictate the terms of the remedy (and legally neither is the retailer either). If you can't reach an agreement then the SCC or European SCC (Small Claims Court) can decide.

So yes, they may offer or accept a full refund, but they are also within their rights to choose repair/replace if it makes sense.

peanuthead

Welease wrote: »

Well sadly.. not exactly.. neither the UK or Irish consumer law specifies who gets to choose the remedy.. It has to be replace, repair or refund.. and in Ireland (albeit which doesnt count in your case), if the retailer offers a repair/replace you have the right to decline and take it to the SCC, but you might not win, as they have offered a perfectly legal remedy. In short, legally you are not specifically allowed to dictate the terms of the remedy (and legally neither is the retailer either). If you can't reach an agreement then the SCC or European SCC (Small Claims Court) can decide.

So yes, they may offer or accept a full refund, but they are also within their rights to choose repair/replace if it makes sense.

Yeah it makes sense, thanks. God I really don't want that as the parts would just be of no use to me - I wouldn't put them on my car.

Anyway, I haven't heard back from him yet and won't now I expect until at least Monday or Tuesday. Will just have to wait and see I suppose.

mickdw

Looking at the pics, its obvious you didnt rip the suspension out of the car so really the manufacturer should be refunding the cost of these parts without question, taking the broken part back and making sure that its not a design problem likely to affect other units. Anything else would really show that brand up as being dangerous/substandard.

I dont think you should have mentioned the pot hole to them though

peanuthead

mickdw wrote: »

Looking at the pics, its obvious you didnt rip the suspension out of the car so really the manufacturer should be refunding the cost of these parts without question, taking the broken part back and making sure that its not a design problem likely to affect other units. Anything else would really show that brand up as being dangerous/substandard.

Thanks for that - glad to hear that is obvious as looking at the pictures means nothing to me, though I had a feeling there would be some way of that being proven.

mickdw wrote: »

I dont think you should have mentioned the pot hole to them though

Yeah, in hindsight probably not. I have always been too honest for my own good.

crosshair1

Can you post an image of the weld that failed, on the spring seat and where it was attached on the shock.
I would attempt a charge back if you purchased with CC as I'm sure the weld failed to penetrate either the shock body or seat to fail like this and could be described as goods not fit for purpose.

peanuthead

crosshair1 wrote: »

Can you post an image of the weld that failed, on the spring seat and where it was attached on the shock.
I would attempt a charge back if you purchased with CC as I'm sure the weld failed to penetrate either the shock body or seat to fail like this and could be described as goods not fit for purpose.

The pics I have up are the only pics I have, but I can get more as I still have the suspension - just not on the car.

In my original post I said that my OH explained to me in layman's terms that it was like the two pieces that should have been welded together were not in fact done properly and that is what caused the break.

However, when our mechanic friend got involved, the guy who fitted them, he said that the parts were not in fact welded at all, he explained that they are put together in a different way, we forget all the terminology now but it is kind of like a crimp, some kind of factory done procedure. So it was obviously that which failed.

My boyfriend says to me that is visible from the pics he gave me (which are the ones I uploaded)

Does that make sense?

peanuthead

Update: So after almost 2 weeks of hearing nothing I sent them a mail telling them I had forwarded the matter to the ECC, which I have.

I got this back:

Hi XXXXX
Sorry You have not had a reply i am just back from holiday there ive spoken to g-max and they said if they are all off the car they can pick them up for inspection please let us know where and when we can arrange the collection


Of course the suspension is off my car - I have new suspension now. Should I take more pictures before I let the suspension out of my sight?

Hopefully this will be sorted soon.

mickdw

I would certainly take a whole pile of pics. Close ups of the failure etc.

taintabird

Reloc8 wrote: »

Where is the company based ?

Did you buy on credit card ?

How can you be sure the product was not fine but the installation was faulty ?

If you're serious about claiming a refund you'd be well off having the installation documented (pictures & independent report) to say it was done properly - independent means not by your friend who was doing the nixer.

From what I gather from the op is that the spring mounting failed and this is part of the shock and as such would be welded by the manufacturer and not the mechanic who fitted it so incorrect installation is a non runner imho.