Is My Instructor Trying To Squeeze More Money Out Of Me?

katharinewheel

So the long and short of it was that I started my lessons in the last week of March, booked in 6 lessons and paid up front. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that if I progressed quickly enough i wouldn't have needed much more than that to get me started driving safely on actual roads with my accompanied driver.

Now I didn't assume that this would all I would need to actually pass my test but enough to get me going safely. Especially considering the very positive feedback from my instructor and my OH who I've been practising with.

Fast forward a month I'm now approaching my 6th lesson, and whilst my instructor is telling me that the progress I'm making is excellent and that I'm quick to pick up things, the lessons themselves are moving extremely slowly. And I'm becoming extremily more frustrated with exactly how slowly they are progressing and am starting to think my instructor had decided before I even set foot in the car that I would do possibly upwards of 25 lessons with.

My last lesson was an entire lesson on turning left in a housing estate and my next lesson I have been informed will be an entire hour of learning how to turn right in the same estate. I have also been told that reversing around the corner is an entire lesson, roundabouts are a whole lesson (despite the fact that I have driven through several roundabouts when my instructor has taken me out for drives on main roads and has always told me I handle them perfectly), going forwards into a parking space are also whole lessons each and that I seriously cannot expect to actually drive on an actual road in the town with moderate traffic until I have done 5 or 6 more lessons.

Now the thing about "practising turning left" in the housing estate was the only about 10-15mins of the hour lesson were actually turning left the rest of the time was spent driving slowly around the estate getting to the left turn in question. And I got to make this left turn three times! I can now look forward to my next lesson being more of the same in the opposite direction. He also will not let me drive to and from the housing estate which is a good 15mins away, which my OH was shocked at, saying that he was essentially screwing me out of half my lesson.

He has also told me about the things he WON'T teach me, such as reversing. His logic that it doesn't really come up in the test and as such doesn't need to be covered beyond reversing around the corner is covered in the test and as such will be a whole lesson (and from experience with the other lessons I've had with my instructor I can pretty much take this to be literally reversing around the corner for an entire lesson). He also doesn't want to teach me parallel parking as its "not really relevent because everyone has a driveway now".

I have covered with my instructor, stopping, starting, changing gears, hill starts, turnabouts, driving on a main road, major roundabouts which are also junctions with the motorway, driving on widing country roads, and turning left. I've also practicised these thing with my OH, who has also taught me parking in spaces, reversing into parking spaces, reversing in general. I have demonstrated a few of these things in front on my instructor and he has commented are done very well, but refuses to "let me off" on doing whole one hour lessons on the things he wants to cover.

I don't get the impression that he thinks I am poor driver or a slowly learner. I'm not overly nervous and have had nothing but positive feedback. My instructor has taken me out driving on the roads, encouraged me to drive at around the speed limit of the road, told me my stopping and starting is near perfect and said many times that I have good control of the car and have good awareness of what is around me, he tells me I pick things up quickly and can manage them well yet is very slow to let me progress beyond doing one particular thing per a lesson.

I just want an objective opinion, is my instructor purposely trying to draw out my lessons so that he can make me pay for more lessons and am I better off finding someone different or is this really how lessons are supposed to be done?

loobylou

katharinewheel wrote: »

I have covered with my instructor, stopping, starting, changing gears, hill starts, turnabouts, driving on a main road, major roundabouts which are also junctions with the motorway, driving on widing country roads, and turning left.

You have covered quite an amount with your instructor already.
How many lessons have you actually had? You say you are now approaching your 6th so I would guess 4 or 5.
What you have done is not unreasonable for that number of lessons, especially given that you seem to learning it well. Normally, with a complete beginner, I would do a lesson on vehicle controls and starting/stopping. Next lesson on moving up through gears and steering, perhaps in a carpark. I would then move on to left and right turns but might intersperse that (as you seem to have done) with a hillstart and/or turnaround, to consolidate what you have learnt on steering and clutch control.
That said, the instructor driving 15 mins each way to a suitable area is unacceptable. Its hard to imagine theres not a suitable place closer to you.
As to parking, I'm sure the instructor will teach you if you want. Its just the vast majority of people simply want to learn enough to pass a test, they feel spending money on anything else is wasted.

ADIDriving

Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer to follow.

looksee

If you are dissatisfied with your instructor you are perfectly entitled to go to another one when your 6 weeks is up. It might be a good idea as you will get two different approaches to learning.

On the one hand he does sound very set in his ways - by the 6th lesson, with reasonable progress, you should be driving on roads to and from the actual place where he wants to give specific instruction. Its a long time ago, but on my first lesson my instructor took me on a busy city road in the UK. Not necessarily a good idea, but rather faster progress than your man is doing.

On the other hand there is more to driving than just doing the things you mention, once. I would not think that you can learn to drive in 6 lessons, there is a lot of less obvious stuff to learn - like safely driving at an appropriate speed, being aware of other road users, including cyclists and pedestrians, doing both these things while paying attention to road signs etc.

And on a completely side issue, I do not agree that housing estates are suitable places for learner drivers to make their mistakes. Children playing is an obvious example, people getting in and out of parked cars, moving vehicles into and out of driveways etc, random stuff like wheelie bins and children's bikes being left in the road.

I do not understand the importance of being able to reverse round a corner either. Reverse and steer, yes. But in 40 years of driving I have never reversed round a corner, except to reverse into a parking space, which is a different activity. I cannot see that it is anything other than a dangerous and unnecessary activity.

gooch2k9

looksee wrote: »

I do not understand the importance of being able to reverse round a corner either. Reverse and steer, yes. But in 40 years of driving I have never reversed round a corner, except to reverse into a parking space, which is a different activity. I cannot see that it is anything other than a dangerous and unnecessary activity.

Is that not a demonstration of being able to control the car in reverse within a limited space? Thats the explanation I got anyway.

Sparkie93

sounds similar to my instructor i was brought to a housing estate about 10 mins away and i spent an entire lesson just turning left and starting and stopping second leson was just turning right 3rd lesson lol same housing estate going over first two lessons and i didn feel like i needed to go over them then next lessons were roundabouts and hill starts and then i spent about 3 lessons just driving in general he showed me how to reverse around the corner and turnabout once and didnt go over it again for another few lessons
if your not happy about the pace the lessons are going you should say something to them

looksee

looksee wrote: »

I do not understand the importance of being able to reverse round a corner either. Reverse and steer, yes. But in 40 years of driving I have never reversed round a corner, except to reverse into a parking space, which is a different activity. I cannot see that it is anything other than a dangerous and unnecessary activity.

I've done it once or twice in less than 2 years, it does come up.

cruizer101

The 15min driving there and back is ridiculous, I could maybe understand that in a first lesson but not after that many.

I remember when I was getting lessons and I wanted to prepay for a number the instructor said no. He said have a lesson with me and see what you think then if after that you want to book a number fair enough but don't commit yourself to an instructor you don't know anything about, you may not like there instructing style. Its an important point as many instructors are going to have different styles and by the sounds of it I wouldn't like yours at all.

So maybe try another instructor for a lesson and see what you think of them.

Also try and get as much practice as you can outside of lessons also with a responsible driver, you'll learn a lot from that too.

katharinewheel

loobylou wrote: »

You have covered quite an amount with your instructor already.
How many lessons have you actually had? You say you are now approaching your 6th so I would guess 4 or 5.

You're right, I've had 5 and will be having my 6th soon.

loobylou wrote: »

What you have done is not unreasonable for that number of lessons, especially given that you seem to learning it well.

It wouldn't be unreasonable if it were my instructor who was teaching me all these things properly but it seems that my OH who is showing me how to do them. I then end up showing my instructor what I have done with my partner and he tells me that I'm doing them well and have them covered. Or he'll tell me how to do something once (like hillstarts and turnabouts) and my OH will have to show me how to do them and practise them with me.

loobylou wrote: »

Normally, with a complete beginner, I would do a lesson on vehicle controls and starting/stopping. Next lesson on moving up through gears and steering, perhaps in a carpark. I would then move on to left and right turns but might intersperse that (as you seem to have done) with a hillstart and/or turnaround, to consolidate what you have learnt on steering and clutch control.

Everything except the turning left and right were covered in carparks, (apart from the winding country road obviously) the first 3 lessons, the last lesson was a double lesson the first part consisting of me driving at 80kph down a national road, pulling into the side at random intervals to practise stopping and starting. The second part of which consisted entirely of me turning left/driving to the main left turn in question that the instructor wanted me to practise. Driving in a circuit so I would only be turning left because right turns were for lesson 6. There was one hill start and two turnabouts covered in lesson 2 and not again.

loobylou wrote: »

That said, the instructor driving 15 mins each way to a suitable area is unacceptable. Its hard to imagine theres not a suitable place closer to you.

I asked if I could drive to housing estate he wanted me to practise in but was told I wasn't ready to drive in traffic and he is insistant that this is the best place to practise left and right turns.

loobylou wrote: »

As to parking, I'm sure the instructor will teach you if you want. Its just the vast majority of people simply want to learn enough to pass a test, they feel spending money on anything else is wasted.

Thing is, I asked him about parking and his attitude was that in no uncertain terms would he teach me parellel parking because he considers that it just isn't relevent. He said he might teach me how to park into a parking space, but only forwards, because thats dead useful for going to Dunnes...:rolleyes:

katharinewheel

looksee wrote: »

On the one hand he does sound very set in his ways - by the 6th lesson, with reasonable progress, you should be driving on roads to and from the actual place where he wants to give specific instruction.

Problem is I think he has it set that I can't drive on a road with real traffic on till X amount of lessons, irregardless of how well I progress.

looksee wrote: »

On the other hand there is more to driving than just doing the things you mention, once. I would not think that you can learn to drive in 6 lessons, there is a lot of less obvious stuff to learn - like safely driving at an appropriate speed, being aware of other road users, including cyclists and pedestrians, doing both these things while paying attention to road signs etc.

I do realise that obviously there is more to driving than just what you cover in lessons and I wouldn't be saying "I can drive" after only 6 lessons and going out on my own. The thing is I'm frustrated by how incredibly slowly I feel my lessons are progressing. I feel that at lesson 6 I should at least be on the road driving with my instructor or practising on quiet roads with my accompanied driver, not spending half my lesson being driven to and from a housing estate on the other side of town to only practise turning right or left. Not being told I need another 6 lessons before I can ever *consider* driving on a road in the town with other traffic.

At times it feels like he is overly cautious and expects me to be very nervous. But then he contradicts this by tell me I should drive faster when I was doing 60kph in an 80kph zone. I release driving isn't easy nor is it something that you can learn to master in 5 or 6 hours, but I can't see how I'm likely to learn the subtle yet very important skills you mention when all I'm going to be doing for the forseeable future is driving slowly around empty housing estates and carparks.

Just get another instructor OP, you're not happy anyway.
And spending most of the lesson getting to and from your destination is silly.
Whereabouts are you, I could recommend a good dublin instructor

loobylou

katharinewheel wrote: »

You're right, I've had 5 and will be having my 6th soon.



It wouldn't be unreasonable if it were my instructor who was teaching me all these things properly but it seems that my OH who is showing me how to do them. I then end up showing my instructor what I have done with my partner and he tells me that I'm doing them well and have them covered. Or he'll tell me how to do something once (like hillstarts and turnabouts) and my OH will have to show me how to do them and practise them with me.



Everything except the turning left and right were covered in carparks, (apart from the winding country road obviously) the first 3 lessons, the last lesson was a double lesson the first part consisting of me driving at 80kph down a national road, pulling into the side at random intervals to practise stopping and starting. The second part of which consisted entirely of me turning left/driving to the main left turn in question that the instructor wanted me to practise. Driving in a circuit so I would only be turning left because right turns were for lesson 6. There was one hill start and two turnabouts covered in lesson 2 and not again.



I asked if I could drive to housing estate he wanted me to practise in but was told I wasn't ready to drive in traffic and he is insistant that this is the best place to practise left and right turns.



Thing is, I asked him about parking and his attitude was that in no uncertain terms would he teach me parellel parking because he considers that it just isn't relevent. He said he might teach me how to park into a parking space, but only forwards, because thats dead useful for going to Dunnes...:rolleyes:

Sounds a bit sketch alright. As you've prepaid though, the best thing at this stage is probably just to take your last lesson with him and say goodbye.

mikemac

katharinewheel wrote: »

He also will not let me drive to and from the housing estate which is a good 15mins away, which my OH was shocked at, saying that he was essentially screwing me out of half my lesson.

Your partner is right. And you should be driving to the estate by now. Fair enough if he's adding the 15 minutes to your hour but as it is now, you're paying and not getting value

Finish up your pre paid lessons and go elsewhere, no shortage of good instructors out there

double GG

Please go elsewhere, please. A whole hour on turning left? I would never doubt anyones driving capabilities but a whole lesson on turning left is way beyond extreme.

He is obviously trying to squeeze money out of you. Look elsewhere.

loobylou

double GG wrote: »

A whole hour on turning left? I would never doubt anyones driving capabilities but a whole lesson on turning left is way beyond extreme.

That is just not true.

lil-ms-vodka

I'm 3 lessons in, so far have covered roundabouts, turning left & right loads of driving on different roads.
Previously I had a lesson with a different instructor in Dublin 15 that let me drive for 20mins of the 1 hour lesson preferring to give lectures instead of practice.

ADIDriving

Your instructor does seem to have a plan for the lessons and this is generally a good thing. From what you have listed, you have got through a reasonable amount of lessons. However one hour, were all you learnt is left turns is not good. That could mean another hour for right turns, then perhaps minor to major junctions ( unless this what you were doing ). Three hours in a carpark is useless. They should also teach you the stuff that you want, ie parking. But after the more important stuff is done.
The main issue, I would have, is the wasted time spent driving to and from the estate. Assuming you are taking one hour lessons, it seems the instructor gets to do half the driving. This is the waste of time. It is sometimesneeded for the first lesson, very seldom for the second, but not the fifth. You should be driving in traffic now.
Maybe your instructor is trying to drag out lesson to get more money. Maybe you are not a good driver, I dont know. But I think the most likely reason is that your instructor is not very good. Maybe they are inexperienced or unqualified or just plain rubbish, again however I am not in the car so I can only give an educated guess. Ask them when they did their ADI exam though.

Foxhole Norman

1

rsom

hmmm....a whole hour on left turns? Was that simply how to approach a left turn and use correct road position?

I have often spent a full hour using only left turns....but that lesson would also include how to use correct observations, road position, gear changes, braking smoothly sometimes to a complete stop or slowing down enough to observe the junction and choose whether to stop or to continue, observing and anticipating the entire junction, turning from minor to major roads and also major to minor roads, taking downhill left turns and uphill left turns, etc etc. We do all these left turns on ever increasing circles that include travelling in 3rd and 4th gear and include everything from housing estate roads to main roads with fairly busy traffic.

I find that once all the basics are in place during left turns, it becomes much easier to progress to right turns, roundabouts etc.

I drive my students to and from learning areas on first and maybe second lessons, they drive after that! But I always make sure I add on a few minutes to the lesson time to take the sting out of me driving to and from. (Oh, and I always find a learning area as close to their home as possible - thanks Google maps!)

I would suggest that you book a lesson with a different instructor, at least then you will be able to make a comparison.

Trish:)

ThunderZtorm

Seems I've been lucky. My instructor drove the first 5 minutes of the first lesson, ever since then, I've been driving the car (done 4 lessons now).. The lessons always start at the parking lot outside my home, and end at the same spot.

My lessons so far have been:

1)
Driving on a very quiet road in Phoenix Park, then after some 20 minutes, driving around on the main roads, circle around and back to my home close to the Park. This was the basics, how to start, turn, stop, shift gears (went to fourth and back etc)

2)
Basic driving skills in a housing estate, lots of left/right turns and some turnabout training.

3)
Roundabout focus hour. Some 20ish roundabouts along regular roads. Not so much else except all the standard stuff really.

4)
Evening driving, along with driving on the N3 for the first time. Few roundabouts as well of course, and a little more practice on turnabouts.
Turned out to be evening+heavy rain, which was a bit intimidating.

All in all, I feel I'm progressing fairly fast, and I certainly hadn't expected to be going about in traffic on the first lesson. I am quite happy with my instructor