Pushy Fathers

Blisterman

Was reading Andre Agassi's autobiography, and it made me think. Agassi's dad made him practice tennis nonstop from when he was old enough to pick up a racquet. Seems harsh, but it's undoubtedly due to this that he became one of the world's greatest tennis players. Agassi appears to look back with a mix of gratitude and resentment.

I'm not planning on having kids any time soon, but it's an interesting thought. Should you let your kids be kids and do what they want, or push them towards a particular skill, when they're young enough to pick it up quickly? For example, speaking a foreign language fluently is an enormously useful skill. (And an almost guarenteed 100 points in the Leaving Cert).

MagicMarker

Let kids be kids, push kids too far and they could turn out like Agassi, or they could turn out like Michael Jackson.

Johnny Storm

Which would you rather have someone do to you?

metrovelvet

Blisterman wrote: »

Was reading Andre Agassi's autobiography, and it made me think. Agassi's dad made him practice tennis nonstop from when he was old enough to pick up a racquet. Seems harsh, but it's undoubtedly due to this that he became one of the world's greatest tennis players. Agassi appears to look back with a mix of gratitude and resentment.

I'm not planning on having kids any time soon, but it's an interesting thought. Should you let your kids be kids and do what they want, or push them towards a particular skill, when they're young enough to pick it up quickly? For example, speaking a foreign language fluently is an enormously useful skill. (And an almost guarenteed 100 points in the Leaving Cert).

It's a tough one.

I had a friend who was a world champion figure skater. She had a life full of competitions, personal trainers, and tutors. She gave it all up in her late teens so she could have a normal life. It hit her one day watching the Olympics when she saw a girl she had beaten twice previously win the silver medal.

Agassi has a life full of so many rewards now for all his victories and public acclaim, but whose life is it? His or his father's?

cantdecide

You never see the people in the media whose pushy parents turned them into blithering idiots by setting unachievable standards for them. I think they call it hot-housing and it's very dangerous.

Galvasean

I'm sure for every Agassi there are a thousand people who were pushed every bit as hard but didn't make it and missed out on their childhood for nothing.

Logical Fallacy

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm sure for every Agassi there are a thousand people who were pushed every bit as hard but didn't make it and missed out on their childhood for nothing.

Exactly. Becoming world class at anything is equal parts hard work, genetics and downright luck.

People will have worked as hard as him without the genes to back it up and never reached the heights he did, or they might have been an even better player and suffered and injury at 16 that ended their career.

yawha

As with most things in life, there needs to be a balance.

I think you have to push kids to do things to a certain extent, and I think you need to instill competitiveness and ambition in them, while at the same time allowing them to have free time to simply play with friends in a carefree manner.

metrovelvet

Galvasean wrote: »

I'm sure for every Agassi there are a thousand people who were pushed every bit as hard but didn't make it and missed out on their childhood for nothing.

That's true. Agassi hated losing more than he loved tennis. Without that element, he would not have had his success.

D'Agger

yawha wrote: »

As with most things in life, there needs to be a balance.

I think you have to push kids to do things to a certain extent, and I think you need to instill competitiveness and ambition in them, while at the same time allowing them to have free time to simply play with friends in a carefree manner.

I think that, when I hopefully do become a father, I'd strike a nice balance.

It's all well and good to leave kids be kids, but what was instilled into me as a youngster was a sense that I shouldn't let something get the better of me and shouldn't give up easily....it's stood to me very well in every aspect of life imo.

I played football when I was younger and my dad would every now and again talk to me about what he thought I needed to work on - mainly my weak leg - by the time I got to minor level I was a nightmare to mark as I could go on the run and score with both feet.

That said there were things I didn't keep up like playing the guitar etc. but I still want to return to those things and take a 2nd crack at it.

DazMarz

I doubt very much if the name of Kipland Kinkel means anything to anyone on here, but the story is this:

Kip was a kid born to two very, very demanding parents. From a young age he was forced to acheive the best in everything; academia, sports, everything. But Kip was a shy and introverted boy, constantly in the shadow of his 'perfect' older sister. Stints in Spain and constant moving home did nothing to help Kip gain friends or confidence and he constantly 'underacheived' (at least in his parents' minds).

This went on for a number of years.... until Kip finally snapped, murdered both his parents and went on a shooting spree in his school. He was taken alive and is currently serving 30 years to life...

While I'm not suggesting that all children who are pushed into doing activities they may not want to do and also being pushed to be the very best in said activity will turn out to be sociopathic, patricidal loopers, this is one extreme and sad case of where a child was simply not allowed to have a childhood and wound up taking the ultimate revenge against his tormentors.

That said, I know of friends who had 'strict' upbringings (no T.V., constant music lessons, no sports after schools in lieu of academic extracurriculars, etc.) who turned out fairly average adults, shedding most of what made them exceptional children. Only a few kept going at what they did and even at that, are still not very good at the activity they are undertaking.

Contrarily, kids who are left to vegetate in front of televisions, computers and never experience kicking a football, reading a book, etc., there is truly a childhood and a life deprived of some of the richer experiences of life...

It's all about finding the correct balance of ensuring kids get a broad spectrum of experiences, while at the same time allowing them time to just enjoy life and to be a kid.

Mrmoe

I think no matter what way a father approaches raising his child there will always be a downside. In some ways I wish my father would have pushed me more sports wise but then I probably wouldn't have been as good academically. I am more than happy with the way he brought be up and I will use it as a template for rasing my own son. You can never have a set style either, each person is different and what might work for one might not work for another. One of my key aims as a father would be to make sure my child is happy and healthy. Sometimes you need to be forceful to do that because it will be ultimately be good for them.

greenlunchbox

yawha wrote: »

As with most things in life, there needs to be a balance.

I think you have to push kids to do things to a certain extent, and I think you need to instill competitiveness and ambition in them, while at the same time allowing them to have free time to simply play with friends in a carefree manner.

PRECISELY!

growing up with a single parent father who didn't push me hard enough has left me very bitter and unstable throughout the years. admittedly there are benefits too - i could play with who i wanted, go where i wanted, generally had a lot of freedom. ended up being a wayward child however and in college to this day i find it hard to stick at one sport/job/task(!!), there is no voice at the back of my head saying "try harder, not good enough". from a young age have had to make decisions on my own. so what is this freedom without the knowledge of what to do with it? for me, liberating but because of this lack of guidance- lonely! a balance would be ideal

Dravokivich

If I was to have kids... Id rather push them into something they were interested in as oppossed to something that didnt work out for me.

pragmatic1

Let kids be kids. My nephew has about five or six different extracurricular activities every week. Poor kid is tired all the time.

Trotter

The only place I'll be pushing my 4 year old daughter is into the arms of William and Kate's first son.
Having seen the wedding yesterday over and over and over (Thanks to Mrs. Trotter), I think Im onto a plan.
I'd wear my green Opel 1990 world cup jersey under a morning jacked at the wedding.

Should royalty not work out, I think I'd be encouraging but if she showed real aptitude for a sport or activity, I'd try hard to encourage her to keep at it, but not to the point where it got in the way of having fun.

DublinWriter

I really want my son to take up where I left off as a failed rock drummer.

...therefore I will invoke Cosby's rule of parenting, I will forbid him from ever listening to rock music or ever let him take up drums. I'll keep my own drum kits and cymbals packed away in cases, tantalisingly next door to his bedroom.

I will also force him to take piano and viola lessons.

alex73

Blisterman wrote: »

For example, speaking a foreign language fluently is an enormously useful skill. (And an almost guarenteed 100 points in the Leaving Cert).

My Kids speak 4 languages. Neither my wife or I can speak Irish, but we made sure that our kids do. Sure push your kids, but don't make them slaves, I found that having a Nanny from Germany who only speaks German to the kids helps them pick up the language without them feeling they are having to learn it.

DublinWriter

alex73 wrote: »

My Kids speak 4 languages. Neither my wife or I can speak Irish, but we made sure that our kids do.

Sorry, but a big boo from me on this one.

I've lost count of the number of aspirational non-Irish speaking middle-class families pushing their kids into the local gael-scoil with the unexpected result that they'll be totally useless at helping kids at their homework.

alex73

DublinWriter wrote: »

Sorry, but a big boo from me on this one.

I've lost count of the number of aspirational non-Irish speaking middle-class families pushing their kids into the local gael-scoil with the unexpected result that they'll be totally useless at helping kids at their homework.

My Kids don't go to a Gael-Scoil, But they take extra classes twice a week in the local Gael-Scoil in the evenings. But they actually like the language, I don't know who fluent they are, but in school (the non Gael-Scoil) the teacher says they are miles ahead in Irish.

Its not about pushing your kids, its about giving them opportunities to advance.

Galvasean

Languages are a bit different IMO. You can give the kid a head start in learning languages by giving them a class or two each week. It's not exactly a whole bunch of pressure. I probably woul pick something like French or German, maybe even Polish or Chinese actually, over Irish as when the kids are adults these would be more beneficial.

yawha

Galvasean wrote: »

Languages are a bit different IMO. You can give the kid a head start in learning languages by giving them a class or two each week. It's not exactly a whole bunch of pressure. I probably woul pick something like French or German, maybe even Polish or Chinese actually, over Irish as when the kids are adults these would be more beneficial.

Why Polish? Celtic Tiger is dead.

holystungun9

I wouldn't condone being pushy but having taught English in South America and now starting in Spain, it is obvious that everybody outside Ireland has a better grasp of the importance of language for travel, job prospects, socializing, internet, etc. Yes, we are native English speakers so that makes things easier for us, but it makes us kinda lazy too. I have taught kids English, starting at age 5 and obviously enough by the age of 12 their english is not too bad. At age 12 in Ireland, kids are just starting to go to secondary school and starting into a foreign language (unless something has changed since I've been away). I like to have a language for travel reasons but it could also open other doors for work. For those leaving Ireland to find work, it can give other options instead of Australia and Canada like everybody else.

Galvasean

yawha wrote: »

Why Polish? Celtic Tiger is dead.

Lots of Polish people knocking about.

wandatowell

Must pick up that book actually. Meant to be a great read

Sky King

I don't have kids but speaking as a former one, I think that kids should be encouraged if they display an interest in something, and they should be put in situations where they might develop such an interest... for example brought to sports games, music performances etc etc.

They should be gently nudged in the direction, even despite initial protests but most definitely not forced against their will, long term. I wanted a drum kit when I was a kid and was permitted to have one (bought with my own money) and my parents tolerated the horrendous din of me playing most days for years until I moved out. They even paid for a few lessons I think... This is the very best gift they could ever have given me.... but I know if I was put sitting in front of a piano when my mates were out playing soccer on sunny evenings I would hate both it, and my parents for forcing me to do it.

Still play them every day. I'm 28 now.

Logical Fallacy

yawha wrote: »

Why Polish? Celtic Tiger is dead.

Because the swing from emigration to immigration normally happens within about two decades.