Roundabout with quick lane change on exit

Boxoffrogs

I'm having a spot of trouble with a particular roundabout I would use quite regularly. It's one of those roundabouts with two exits but the leftmost lane quickly becomes a bus lane on exit.
I generally travel straight through i.e. on approach the exit is at 12 o'clock, so I stay in the left lane and then indicate once I have passed the first exit. Once I do exit, I have to then move across to the right lane otherwise I will be illegally occupying a bus lane.

Twice in the space of a week, I have had cars fly up the inside of me while I'm already in the process of changing lanes leaving me no option but to travel in the bus lane (albeit for a very short distance).

It's making me very nervous about using this stretch of road which is a shame because other than that it's a great road for practicing on. I'm also not entirely sure about right of way in such an instance. I might also add that most of the cars I've noticed exiting in the right lane would have travelled through the roundabout alongside me i.e. they occupied the right lane and then travelled straight through.

Is anyone else here familiar with such a roundabout and how do you deal with it?
Thanks

chin_grin

It's safe to say that you're approaching the roundabout right. (Being in the left lane to go straight).

Anyone who is on your right should be turning right. (Unless indicated).

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

When you approach the exit you just have to merge in to the single lane, those going by on the inside would be breaking the law (travelling down a bus lane), so don't worry about them. Just don't hinder the flow of traffic and merge when safe to do so.

Also the "inside".........I'd consider this my left, is that right? Because I over-take on the "outside"........See I'm a leftie so I'm probably confusing myself.

Boxoffrogs

chin_grin wrote: »

It's safe to say that you're approaching the roundabout right. (Being in the left lane to go straight).

Anyone who is on your right should be turning right. (Unless indicated).

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

When you approach the exit you just have to merge in to the single lane, those going by on the inside would be breaking the law (travelling down a bus lane), so don't worry about them. Just don't hinder the flow of traffic and merge when safe to do so.

Also the "inside".........I'd consider this my left, is that right? Because I over-take on the "outside"........See I'm a leftie so I'm probably confusing myself.

Thanks chin grin. I was almost certain my approach was right. However I guess most people stay in the right lane for the approach as the left lane is the one which quickly becomes a bus lane.

Therefore in this instance when I say my inside, I actually mean the right hand side, sorry.

What I really need to know is should cars exiting in the right lane hang back and allow me to take position in the right lane or should I come to a stop and wait until there is sufficient space to make the change.

My last journey along this road, I was already moving over when a car whizzed up on my right at speed forcing me to quickly move back over. I was a hairs breadth away from a collision. That's what's making me nervous.

Saruman

If the exit has two lanes (clearly pained lines) then they are not in the wrong and it is up to you to merge in safely. They should also not be asses about it and allow you in.

This is probably an example of what you are talking about?

Traffic heading city bound from the Blanchardstown side going through the Ashtown roundabout. As you can see a lot of cars are staying in the right hand lane because further on it becomes a bus lane in the left lane.

There are however no lines pained showing it as a two lane exit so it is a bit of a grey area since there are two lanes once the bus lane begins. To be safe, left lane rule should apply but this is where bus lanes add to traffic problems because the approach on the other side of the roundabout is a bus lane until the last 10 metres or so mean cars are less likely to move to the left because of bus/taxi traffic.

Boxoffrogs

Saruman wrote: »

If the exit has two lanes (clearly pained lines) then they are not in the wrong and it is up to you to merge in safely. They should also not be asses about it and allow you in.

This is probably an example of what you are talking about?

Traffic heading city bound from the Blanchardstown side going through the Ashtown roundabout. As you can see a lot of cars are staying in the right hand lane because further on it becomes a bus lane in the left lane.

There are however no lines pained showing it as a two lane exit so it is a bit of a grey area since there are two lanes once the bus lane begins. To be safe, left lane rule should apply but this is where bus lanes add to traffic problems because the approach on the other side of the roundabout is a bus lane until the last 10 metres or so mean cars are less likely to move to the left because of bus/taxi traffic.

Thanks Saruman, I would post a link if I knew how but it's actually the R136 and the last roundabout on approach to Lucan.

What you did make me do was consult with google maps and what has escaped me until now is that the right lane on approach is marked both for going straight on as well as right. Makes total sense and I know what lane I will be using from now on. And while I'd say I've encountered some fairly aggressive drivers in this spot, I could probable have helped myself by driving a little more cleverly.

I will also be paying more attention to the lane markings on roundabouts from here on in. Lesson learned.

Saruman

This one?

Yeah both lanes are good there as they are clearly indicated. You just need to be aware of the bus lane if in the left hand lane.

**Timbuk2**

As Saruman pointed out, both lanes can be used for straight on (because the road markings says so: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=R136,+Lucan,+Ireland&aq=0&sll=41.909358,-87.674024&sspn=0.012296,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=R136,+Lucan,+County+South+Dublin,+Ireland&layer=c&cbll=53.337214,-6.430022&panoid=yL2bWCoOj4Q_8HF4DcEJdA&cbp=12,4.19,,0,12.31&ll=53.337318,-6.430006&spn=0.005689,0.018196&z=16 )

However, if they didn't, then you should use the left lane. Although there are two lanes on and two lanes off, you should only use the right lane for going straight on if the left lane is blocked (for example, if there is a queue of cars waiting to turn left, and the right approach lane is free).

It's not a brilliant design though! The traffic that turn left onto the road in question still have to merge fairly quickly. But remember, you shouldn't enter a roundabout unless both lanes are clear, so if you get up to speed fairly quickly, then usually you won't have that much traffic to merge into, as you will have only proceeded when there was a gap - if you know what I mean?

Boxoffrogs

Yes, that's the culprit. So, to get this straight, best practice is to remain in the left lane (I'm almost always going straight through) here and then move across when I have space. This is what I have been doing up until now. It's just the pace of some cars coming along in the right lane here is something else. Suppose I'll just have to be aware of that and drive accordingly. It can mean though that at times I'll have to come to a complete stop right before that bus lane begins.

BostonB

I've seen this a lot lately. The sudden appearance of a bus lane as you exit a roundabout. Poor design tbh. often they squeeze two lanes on the roundabout and two exits where there really isn't room. They should start the bus lane much further away from the roundabout.

**Timbuk2**

No, in this case you wouldn't be doing anything wrong by being in the right hand lane, as the road markings permit this. In fact, I'd probably go straight for the right lane, in anticipation of this bus lane ahead. Be wary of cars that may move straight out in front of you while trying to merge into the right lane though.

Remember, that in general, especially with roundabouts, road markings / signs override the 'basic rules'. There are some roundabouts where it's indicated that you can only go straight on in the right lane, and the left lane is only for turning left (or other such nonstandard variations). If there's no road markings/signs, then the basic roundabout rules apply.

Also note that the bus lane may not be a 24 hour bus lane. For example, it might be inactive after 7pm on weekdays and maybe inactive all day Sunday. This is usually indicated by a sign. In which case, you can drive in the bus lane (when it's inactive), so in that case you can take the left lane and just keep driving in the bus lane (being wary for bicyles, and traffic moving into the lane to turn left).

Spook_ie

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

No, in this case you wouldn't be doing anything wrong by being in the right hand lane, as the road markings permit this. In fact, I'd probably go straight for the right lane, in anticipation of this bus lane ahead. Be wary of cars that may move straight out in front of you while trying to merge into the right lane though.

Remember, that in general, especially with roundabouts, road markings / signs override the 'basic rules'. There are some roundabouts where it's indicated that you can only go straight on in the right lane, and the left lane is only for turning left (or other such nonstandard variations). If there's no road markings/signs, then the basic roundabout rules apply.

Also note that the bus lane may not be a 24 hour bus lane. For example, it might be inactive after 7pm on weekdays and maybe inactive all day Sunday. This is usually indicated by a sign. In which case, you can drive in the bus lane (when it's inactive), so in that case you can take the left lane and just keep driving in the bus lane (being wary for bicyles, and traffic moving into the lane to turn left).

That particular bus lane is 24x7

**Timbuk2**

Spook_ie wrote: »

That particular bus lane is 24x7

Ah I see - not familiar with the area

Then I'd definitely take the right lane. Even in your test, it would be acceptable because of the road markings (which override the basic roundabout rules). For example, there's a good few roundabouts that have the left lane marked as turn left only and the right lane as right or straight on only. I see them a lot more in Mayo for some odd reason than anywhere else I've driven.

Boxoffrogs

Thanks everyone, drove this road today. Used the right lane. Takes the uncertainty away. It also seems to be what 99% of drivers going through this roundabout do, so if I don't, I'm putting myself at a disadvantage. I will of course be on the lookout for anyone using the left lane and be as courteous as I can be.

stoneill

I know that road, that's the roundabout with the junctions for Adamstown, Lucan and Clondalkin.
Best approach there is a bit of defensive driving and to come off the roundabout just a tad later than normal so that car flows off from the roundabout onto the right hand lane.

That bus lane is 24X7, and quite often a bicycle Garda will be hiding out there.

**Timbuk2**

stoneill wrote: »

I know that road, that's the roundabout with the junctions for Adamstown, Lucan and Clondalkin.
Best approach there is a bit of defensive driving and to come off the roundabout just a tad later than normal so that car flows off from the roundabout onto the right hand lane.

Do you mean go round the roundabout in the left lane, but leave in the right?

That's bad practice. If you're leaving in the right lane, you must approach and go round the roundabout in the right lane. Otherwise, on approach to the roundabout, you could be in the left lane, a car could be to the right of you in the right, both of you are going straight on - he will expect you to leave in the left lane (heading towards the bus lane) and he will leave in the right lane. If you leave it a bit later and head towards the right lane, there could be a collision. I'm not sure who would be at fault, as technically both cars are changing lane without proper observation, but either way it's wrong.

I probably read your post wrongly though.

stoneill

No - go around the roundabout in the left lane, but leave heading for the right lane on the orbital road.
Otherwise you'll be squeezed out of it and be stuck trying to get out of a bus lane.

Popoutman

If it were painted more clearly it may make more sense.
All direction references are from the point of view of a driver going straight through (2nd exit @ 12 o'clock).
Ideally this makes the most sense to me: treat the left-hand lane as a filter lane coming from exit 1, with the right-hand lane in exit 2 as the exit for those coming from exits 3 and 4 (exit 4 is where you are coming from).
Traffic coming from exit 1 going to exits 3 and 4 should not be coming onto the roundabout as you should have indicated correctly that you are taking exit 2, as you have just passed exit 1.

This particular roundabout is poorly designed and most likely poorly signposted too. Pity we can't do at all well what should be a simple job.

Note that on this roundabout, the left-hand lane on exit 2 is the one that has to give way and merge into the right-hand lane.