Lesbian's want my child...

LegacyUser

I'm unsure how I should feel about a particular situation. Basically, I'm 22, and 2 friend's I have (who are also lesbian's in a relationship) want to use my sperm to impregnate one of them so they can have a child. I'm actually bisexual myself and want a child and feel this would be a convenient way for me to have one. However, this whole scenario complicates things; they'll be bringing up my child, which I don't really mind as I'm young and probably wouldn't be able to do the job that they could (they have accommodation, job security etc.).

Another complication is that they are highly liberal-moderate Muslims, who don't practice the religion but stay with it as their family want them to. The family can't find out they are lesbians, so one of them has to marry me (which means as an atheist myself, I'd have to convert to Islam for wholly fake reasons), as you can't have a child out of wedlock. This ceremony would have to be confirmed in their country of origin, and then when I return to Ireland, I'd seek a divorce and apostatize from Islam.

Of course, I would want my child to be brought up in a secular environment and allowed to make it's own mind up about religion later in life rather than be compelled to follow a religion which was imposed. I've no problem faking all of this, but for some reason everything is playing on my mind albeit quite heavily.

I really want a child and I really trust these people so think it's a good opportunity. Then again, I start thinking about what the child wants i.e. would it appreciate later in life being brought up by lesbian's rather than a father and a mother, what if it resents me for that reason etc. You can see where I'm coming from.

So basically, just asking what your views are...I know it appears like a crazy idea, but can you think of any reasons why I should/shouldn't go ahead, as I really need to make up my mind with all the facts rather than jumping into it.

Thanks.

seamus

Assuming that this is a serious thread, then your primary concern should be the proposal to bring a child into this horrific web of lies and deceit, and what effect this will have on the child.

If these two women are incapable of asserting themselves in front of their families now, then how are they going to do so if they're caring for a child?

From your perspective you will be the former partner of a Muslim woman, bound by law to pay maintenance towards the child, but at the whim of the wishes of the child's maternal grandparents who will likely exert their power over their daughter to prevent you from ever seeing your child, and then bringing the child up under Islam.

There's not just a big red warning flag here, there are big red lights flashing everywhere, along with bells and claxons.

Nobody is thinking about what's best for the child here. It's formative years will a cloud of confusion and fighting rather than the happy-clappy, everybody's running through the fields hand-in-hand picture that you seem to have in your head.

Before you even consider this proposal, the women need to come clean with their families and accept the consequences.

Taltos

OP - this does sound like a crazy idea.
I cannot come up with one good reason to do this...

A few things jumped out at me though - ok will limit myself to a few otherwise would be here all day.
Children - convenient - not sure how you can use that word.
Marriage - conversion - divorce - you are 22 ffs - have you heard of fraud? What are the implications in their faith if this was ever found out.
Wanting any child of yours to be brought up in a secular fashion - sorry - but when you abdicate parenting to anyone else you lose that choice and any (any) say you have in the rearing of that child.

Mad - just mad. Why would they not seek to adopt or get an anon donor. This would be a life sentence for you mate - nothing will be the same and what happens when you fall out with the parents - with the lies you would be going through - can almost guarantee it.

Mad.

Firstly as to the question of how you should “feel” I would instantly say you should feel flattered and honored to be the one they asked. It is no small thing they have asked and it shows a wealth of trust and more on their part. Being flattered and honored however I should point out should not make you feel pressured into a yes or no answer… but do not resist feeling it. You must deserve it, so well done.

That said then I will add that I have a child with two girls myself… well obviously only with one of them but I am in a relationship with two of them… and we intend to have more. 2 each is the plan.

When we first decided to have this relationship the girls told their families what the story was, what we planned, what we wanted and how we intended to do it all. There was some upset at first as you can imagine, especially from their dads but in the end they saw we were committed, dedicated and for real about it.

One of the things that I love most about the girls is their bravery in all of this. They stood up, let everyone know who they were, did not back down in the face of pressure, but also did not issue ultimatums of “Its our way or the highway” but made it clear that we wanted the familes to all work with us on this, not against us or despite us. That strength in them I will love forever.

What you are describing here in the OP sounds like the opposite. It sounds like the women are being who their families want them to be, regardless of what lies, charades or fake propitiations they have to make along the way. This will not likely stop suddenly when the child comes either… and in fact quite probably will get worse as family like to get even more involved when kids are around. They know what they want, which is a good thing. They are willing to pretend to be, or even worse to actually be, what they are not in order to get what they want. Not a good thing.

More than anything what we have here works because of honesty… honesty with each other… with the families… and later honesty with our children. It works because we work with our friends and families… not against them or to appease them. As the user above me says… I see too many red flags here to be able to even begin to advise you towards giving them a “yes”. I am all for a “no” on this one.

And that is all before we get to the point of you becoming a Muslim Apostate. There are some… not all of course but some…. Muslims who are of the opinion you deserve to die for being such. Who knows if, or how many, such people you may meet through the life of the child given it will be brought up culturally Muslim. I am also not educated enough on Muslim Theology or practices to know what shame, if any, is culturally placed on the child through your planned divorce and the lesbianism of the mothers. This too you will need to understand before making your final decision.

diddlybit

Hey OP.

As a woman in a same-sex relationship, here are my two cents. If in the future I choose to have children with a sperm donor that I know, I would be certain that all parties involved would be agreed upon certain aspects of the arrangment.

Firstly, the amount of access and involvment that the donor would have. Some couples agree on limited and no involvment in the rearing of the child. Others involve the donor in the child's life with some form of guardian role. From the tone of your post, you do want involvement in the child's, and even before conception you have no say in the child's religious upbringing. No having these roles clearly defined is going to be a huge problem, especially in legal matters in the future. It would be irresponsible to concieve a child in which all partcipants are not happy about it.

Secondly, you should not have to convert to any religion. Let's be honest, you are doing them a massive favour by even considering it, they should try make this as easy as possible for you. This is an alternative familial arrangment as it is, attempting to follow tradition in such a extreme manner i.e. a beard marriage, to me seems a little ridiculous. Depsite the restrictions of their religion, they too also have other options in this area, that they could follow that wouldn't be a sham.


Thirdly, as other people have pointed out, you are only 22. There will be plenty of other opportunities to have children, either in your own relationship, or helping out lesbian friends, in which the circumstances are more suitable to you.

As Taltos pointed out, they have other options. If you have pointed out your concerns to your friends already, they may be taking advantage of your youth, helpfulness and desire to have children.

In regards to a child resenting being raised by lesbian parents, I doubt this is true. But he or she may resent the fact that there would be an indiviudual in their life, that helped with their conception, that wished to be involved and wasn't allowed.

greenprincess

I think this sounds like a terrible way to bring a child into the world! You said your bi, is there a chance in the future you might meet a woman you want to marry and have kids with?

Once you hand over parental rights you may never see the child again. Also if they cannot be honest with their parents about their relationship how will they explain that they are raising the child and your not involved?

LegacyUser

@ Seamus: Yes - this is a very serious thread with very serious implications given what outcome I choose. As I'm not financially the most stable person, I was thinking could I not sign some form of a contract stipulating I wouldn't have to pay maintenance until I'm financially secure. Apologies for my ignorance on this subject by the way. I would have to talk with the couple and ask questions that you've posed such as the influence their family abroad would have on the relationship. Remember, they are friends of mine...not randomers, so I can't really imagine them abandoning me all of a sudden and demanding so much either as they know my situation. It won't be brought up culturally Muslim as it'll be brought up in Ireland by parents who are only Muslim in the title sense rather than the practicing sense. Somehow I think you're exaggerating this 'fighting' and 'cloud of confusion' too.

@ Taltos: Apologies for using the word 'convenient', I meant that I never imagined having a child, and now an opportunity exists to have one. Of course, I have to balance this with what's best for this child too.

@taxAHcruel: They only lie to their parents because in Islam, homosexuality is really looked down upon...so it's about keeping the peace rather than opening up a can of worms. I can't blame them really as I'm currently doing the same. I'm not afraid of Islam so don't mind being an apostate.

I'm not trying to defend having a child here, I just don't think I did a good enough job at the start describing my situation. Judging by the responses, it appears people think my friends are going to demand money from me, will be controlled by their parents and I'll never see the child potentially. As friends and how I've discussed the matter with them, contracts would have to be signed ensuring things go smoothly for both sides.

spurious

Be very wary - any such contracts wouldn't have any real legal validity.

jomc

You cannot sign away your obligations.

It speaks volumes that you have thought out simply signing away your oligations before bringing a child into the world.

Your priorities are not with this child, neither are your lesbian friends priorities.

Wait until such a time as you and your friends can make the child the priority they deserve to be.

seamus

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I was thinking could I not sign some form of a contract stipulating I wouldn't have to pay maintenance until I'm financially secure.

Any such contract would be worthless. A judge could order it to be voided/ignored on the basis of what's best for the child.

I would have to talk with the couple and ask questions that you've posed such as the influence their family abroad would have on the relationship.

Good intentions rarely translate into good actions. I suggest that they must come clean to their parents, because that's the only way you'll know that they are capable of standing up to them.

I'm guessing that they are living here, but their families live abroad?
What will they do if their mother decides she's coming to Ireland to help? They'll hardly refuse their own mother? Then what about pressure to come home, safe in the bosom of their family after being divorced by her "demon" husband? You run the very real risk that if the child ever visits the mother's origin country, that it will never come home.

Never underestimate the power of the parent. Her mother & father are more precious and intimidating to your friend than you can ever be. She will sell you down the river to make them happy. "She would never do that to me". She would, you know. Remember you will have no bond to this woman except the child and a friendship. That cannot compare to the relationship she has with her parents. She will ditch you if that's what it takes to keep her parents happy.

If you don't know their parents and don't get on with their parents like a house on fire, then you're not close enough to these women to trust them in a matter as intimate and important as this.

It won't be brought up culturally Muslim as it'll be brought up in Ireland by parents who are only Muslim in the title sense rather than the practicing sense.

And if the child is taken to the mother's home country and kept there?
The world is not as easy as you seem to think it is. The mother will be able to take the child out of the country without your consent, and under the auspices of her parents, may not return. Any attempt by you to have the child returned will likely be refused by the legal system in the mother's country and you are left without any way to contact your child and possibly unable to even travel to the country where your child is.

Somehow I think you're exaggerating this 'fighting' and 'cloud of confusion' too.

I had presumed that everyone was living in Ireland. You will be the outcast here. Her family will hate you and she will have to maintain the pretence.

If you do find yourself going for the yes side of this issue then I fully recommend seeking good legal advice… which given your financial situation might not be all that easy to do.

In my own situation we sought some serious advice… it also helped that one of the girls has just come out of a law masters so has some legal savvy herself… and we worked very hard to get decent documents written up that ensured all kinds of things like next of kin, inheritance and hospital visitation rights to our children for whichever of the girls was not the “real” mother. Important also was the possibility that if anything happened to me and one of the girls, that certain things like guardianship rights to the children would be no issue to the other girl. Have you considered what would happen to the child if both you and the biological mother died for example?

As spurious above says you have to be especially careful to ensure documents are actual valid. They might sound great on paper, and have lovely signatures at the bottom, but they can be worth squat in a court. You really need to be sure what you are doing is valid and water tight. Good legal advice not from some cheap charlatan is highly recommended.

diddlybit

rightthingtodo wrote: »

They only lie to their parents because in Islam, homosexuality is really looked down upon...so it's about keeping the peace rather than opening up a can of worms. I can't blame them really as I'm currently doing the same. I'm not afraid of Islam so don't mind being an apostate.

May I ask what will happen in the future at milestones of the child's life in which the extended family visit? Will their relationship be hidden or are they contemplating coming out to their parents? Just curious OP

AnonoBoy

So they want you to convert to Islam, fake-marry one of them and donate your sperm?

It all sounds preposterous.

You're 22. What's the rush to have a child?

It feels off to you because it is.

Trust your instincts and say no.

Fysh

This sounds like a very bad idea. There are a number of potential issues that could cause havoc with your proposal, including:

• Who will you name on the child's birth cert as being his or her parents? (In the event of some kind of future relationship breakdown between either you and both women or between either of the women, this will be relevant)
• What happens in the event of a disagreement between you and the two women over how to raise the child (Will he/she be raised Muslim? Where will he/she live? Who will pay for the various costs of raising him/her?)
• How will you deal with the issues arising from hiding the truth of your relationship from the women's families?
• How will both women deal with the issues with hiding the truth of their relationship from the women's families?
• How will you address the issues that may arise for the child stemming from growing up in a complex family situation involving lies and deception instead of honesty, trust and mutual support?

Bringing up a child is going to be a complete change for almost every aspect of your life - you'll only be making your life harder by a significant amount by following through this plan.

leggo

The one thing, reading this thread, that I'm thinking constantly is "you're so young."

Not necessarily age-wise...but more to do with your thought-patterns. So I don't think anyone should be too harsh on you with the 'sign away your responsibilities' comments. You've been put in a tough spot and seem to be thinking down every avenue to make it work. So respect to you for that.

For a massively complicated situation like this to work, if it ever could, you'd need to have a firm grip of the situation and be able to stand your ground when needed. Otherwise you're just going to get caught up in the mess. And it's already a mess before any sperm has been donated or any vows of convenience made.

That's not an environment to be bringing up children in. Nothing to do with the sexuality of those involved or anything...just the sheer mess of it all. You all need to get to grips with your own situations first before you go bringing a child into the equation. Maybe file this idea under Plan B and dig it up again if nobody has thought of anything better a decade from now.

metrovelvet

I see a serious identity crisis for this child. Islam but not islam, mother married but not married, has a father but doesnt have a father.... the list goes on...

Talk about double binds

Disaster. Bad idea. Drop it.

iguana

rightthingtodo wrote: »

This ceremony would have to be confirmed in their country of origin, and then when I return to Ireland, I'd seek a divorce and apostatize from Islam.

You can't just "seek a divorce" here. Realistically you'd be married for circa 5 years, albeit legally separated for most of. As this woman's husband in this time you would have certain obligations to her, which can not be signed away in Ireland as pre-nups have no validity in our law. Then even after you divorce there is no such thing as a clean break legally. Say you become quite successful and wealthy 10-20 years from now, she could sue you for maintenance, not only for the child's dependant years but for her, for her or your lifetime. She'll even have a claim on your pension.

Another thing, this may be irrelevant and if so ignore it, but I assume she isn't an EU citizen, does she have a full visa to stay in Ireland? If not what happens if/when her visa runs out? If there was any germ of a plan that your marriage would allow her to apply for citizenship forget that right away. It takes years to secure citizenship through marriage, a minimum of 5, with no guarantees. And a decent chance of prison for you and deportation for her hanging over you if you were found out.

In those 5 years you would have to be living as a family and her partner would likely have to live apart. And only after she got citizenship could you initiate divorce proceedings, meaning it would take you a decade to have any sort of legal freedom. What if you meet someone and want to get married/have a civil partnership in that time? What if you want to start a family with that person?

And what about her partner's visa situation, if she too needs one? Your partner would have to wait 10 years, then begin a civil partnership with her partner spend the next 5 years working on her partner receive citizenship, again with no guarantees. If her partner had to leave the country do you think she and the child would stay here? I suspect not.

This is very, very messy and could cause serious, serious problems for 4 people, 1 of whom had no choice in the matter. If this was a "straightforward" scenario of a lesbian couple wanting to have a child with you it would be well worth exploring it as you seem interested in the idea. But with the beard marriage, foreign mothers from a very, very different culture where your arrangement could be criminal and sneaking around behind the backs of clueless family members who are exerting massive control even from abroad, this is a crazy minefield.

Knasher

It sounds like your friends what their family to be part of their child's life (otherwise why go to such lengths to convert to Islam and marry before having a child). They are extremely naive if they think they can have their parents involved and yet still hide their relationship from them, eventually (by which I mean shortly after learning to talk) the child will mention its two mom's.

Everything else can be surmounted and hashed out, but that is something that needs to be dealt with. Either way converting to Islam and getting married should be unnecessary.

prinz

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I'm actually bisexual myself and want a child and feel this would be a convenient way for me to have one..

Isn't that great. Convenient for you. A child is not a handbag or a mobile phone for crying out loud.

rightthingtodo wrote: »

Another complication is that they are highly liberal-moderate Muslims, who don't practice the religion but stay with it as their family want them to. The family can't find out they are lesbians, so one of them has to marry me (which means as an atheist myself, I'd have to convert to Islam for wholly fake reasons), as you can't have a child out of wedlock. This ceremony would have to be confirmed in their country of origin, and then when I return to Ireland, I'd seek a divorce and apostatize from Islam. ..

Hooray a fake marriage, just like that, and a fake religious conversion.. and a quick-fix divorce to solve it all. No issues there worth thinking about.

rightthingtodo wrote: »

Of course, I would want my child to be brought up in a secular environment and allowed to make it's own mind up about religion later in life rather than be compelled to follow a religion which was imposed..

Which couldn't actually happen as long as the ladies involved are living a lie... good stuff.

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I've no problem faking all of this, but for some reason everything is playing on my mind albeit quite heavily...

Yeah some odd reason. It's not like something that could affect the lives of who knows how many people.

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I really want a child and I really trust these people so think it's a good opportunity.

Again sounds extremely immature and selfish. A child is not a commodity. Have a child when you are ready to have a child, you are not ready to have a child in any possible sense.

rightthingtodo wrote: »

So basically, just asking what your views are...I know it appears like a crazy idea, but can you think of any reasons why I should/shouldn't go ahead, as I really need to make up my mind with all the facts rather than jumping into it..

So many it makes my head hurt. None of the three of you sound in any way shape or form ready to be parents.

LegacyUser

This is just crazy. Why are you even considering it?

Apologies for using the word 'convenient', I meant that I never imagined having a child, and now an opportunity exists to have one. Of course, I have to balance this with what's best for this child too.

When you say that you "never imagined having a child", do you mean that you thought you would never find somebody/relationship that would want to have kids with you? Do you find it easy enough relating with other women and men, or are you lacking a bit in confidence and think that this is your only shot of ever having a child?
I'm just asking because that's the way it came across to me, like you were going to have this child mainly because for some reason, you think it's your only chance to ever have one.
You are only 22 and have your whole life ahead to have a child if you want to. You never know what person you could meet in the future who would be more than happy to have a child with you, when you are more mature and as you say yourself, more financially secure.
The situation you are in now is anything but a convenient/good idea!
I just don't see what your urgency to have a child now is for.

You think that you can just hand over the baby to it's parents, and that they will raise it together until you decide that you are mature and financially independent enough to want to be part of the child's life?
What if in those few years, they get accustomed to being the only parents and then when you finally come along wanting to be part of the child's upbringing, that they don't want you involved as they are used to doing it themselves? Have they even said that you would be like a father to the child or are you just assuming you will be? With some couples the sperm donor is just the donor, and has no say in the upbringing of the child.

As others have said, the sham marriage, her strict family etc., could seriously fcuk up your life, and possibly leave you with NO access to the child at all in the future!

Exactly how close to you are these friends of yours? How long do you know them? Do you know them well enough to be certain, that after you got one of them pregnant, and got your divorce from your sham wedding, that the 2 of them wouldn't run away together?
It just sounds like that they are either crazy, or completely taking advantage of how clueless and naive you seem to be about the whole situation.

I would seriously advise NOT going through with any of these baby/fake wedding plans.

skooterblue

There was a legal case 2-3 years ago, not dissimalr to yours. The gay father was to be given the privillages of "Favourite Uncle". Something didnt pan out and then he went through the courts for access. The Judge ruled that the lesbien couple were a stable family unit in accordance with constitutional law.

He got a real raw deal. At this age of your life you dont need this at this age of your life.

Chuchoter

First off, I call bull****. This story is mad.

But if its legit, OP why are you even considering this? These women can't have kids if the whole thing is built on lies and not standing up for themselves. Also, this won't be 'your child'. Its their child. You are just the mechanics to get there.

Wompa1

The decision is clear as day. Say no, don't do it. You will have plenty of oppurtunities to have a child of your own some day which hopefully will be out of love and not convenience for two women who to me sound like they are trying to use you!

tbh

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I know it appears like a crazy idea

no - it IS a crazy idea, there's no appears about it. It's a total web of lies, any one of which has the potential to cause the rest of your life to be a nightmare. You're 22. You could do nothing for the next ten years and still be a young father. My strong advice is to not touch this situation with a 20-foot barge poll.

Big Bag of Chips

After the fake religious conversion, fake marriage, fake divorce etc... what then?

How do they SERIOUSLY plan on bringing up this child together if their families can never know they are a couple?

And it makes no difference WHERE they live. If they have any contact with their family whatsoever, this will not work if they can't be honest with them.

So their options are
1 - forget about having a baby
Or
2 - tell their families, and then have a baby
Or
3 - have a baby and cut ALL contact with their families.

Nothing else can work.

MadameCholet

I agree it sounds like a bad idea. NOt because they're lesbians but because they sound like just random people to you. They don't sound like friends of yours. You say they are muslims. Are they Irish then? or could they return to a foreign country at some point? You sound like you want to be involved with your child's life and have some say, but I think that this would be impossible if you impregnate a random woman of any description. See this on normal single parenting boards all the time.

There's no hurry to have a child. This is not your only chance! and maybe they can find somebody who suits them better as well.

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

Back, and sorry for not replying sooner.

You guys really have enlightened me to some points of view that I didn't actually think of before, obviously I was engrossed in naivety for the past while. I think the best decision would be to leave it and wish them well in finding another, more suitable candidate.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. Sorry if I appeared to be a complete idiot here.

5cutch

Here's a simple test - if you have a son, his circumcision under Islam is compulsory. For you as a post pubescent convert it's optional.

Go read up on circumcision and ask yourself if you're comfortable with someone hacking at your firstborn's genetalia for religious reasons. If you are, get circumcised yourself when you convert.

If you're not and it's all seeming like a bad idea, go with that gut instinct.

neuro-praxis

You are talking about building your life upon one deceit after another, and worse, implicating a child in a life of shame, secrets and lies. Can't you even think of the people, quite apart from the child, who would be hurt by such deep and complicated lies?! This enormous, deceitful and complicated situation, should you choose to enter it, will follow you around as long as you live and you should run from this NOW. These women may be your friends but they sound spineless and amoral. Don't let them suck you into this. You're not even financially secure...do you even have any idea of the costs incurred by the requisite travel, wedding, divorce, legal fees and child maintenance? And let me tell you, the law will not look favourably on a sham marriage. Neither will your child be guaranteed Irish citzenship.

Wait until you are mature, independent and secure in your own values before having a child. For goodness' sake!

up for anything

iguana wrote: »

You can't just "seek a divorce" here. Realistically you'd be married for circa 5 years, albeit legally separated for most of. As this woman's husband in this time you would have certain obligations to her, which can not be signed away in Ireland as pre-nups have no validity in our law.

As a Muslim convert married under Islamic law he could divorce her almost immediately and very quickly especially if they married in the UK. I'm not too sure what the situation is in Ireland.

rightthingtodo

rightthingtodo wrote: »

Sorry if I appeared to be a complete idiot here.

Not many people engender the level of trust in others that it must have taken these girls to even ask you in the first place. Not one of us here even knows what a situation like yours might even feel like to actually BE in. You are no idiot.... you did the right thing..... you were confronted with something you never were confronted with before.... you compiled the data.... asked for advice..... and came to a decision.

You did better than most would have.... "kid". Well done.

iguana

up for anything wrote: »

As a Muslim convert married under Islamic law he could divorce her almost immediately and very quickly especially if they married in the UK. I'm not too sure what the situation is in Ireland.

If he's married in a legal marriage he needs a legal divorce. No matter what religion the ceremony is conducted through, the legality of the marriage is all that would matter. Islamic law is utterly irrelevant, it's the law of the land that counts.

In Ireland you need to have been legally separated for 4 of the preceding 5 years in order to complete a divorce. And even when divorced there are still certain legal and financial obligations which can last a lifetime.

neuro-praxis

rightthingtodo wrote: »

Hi guys,

Back, and sorry for not replying sooner.

You guys really have enlightened me to some points of view that I didn't actually think of before, obviously I was engrossed in naivety for the past while. I think the best decision would be to leave it and wish them well in finding another, more suitable candidate.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated. Sorry if I appeared to be a complete idiot here.

I wrote my post before the one you've written above was published. You've not appeared like an idiot - only as someone entranced in a romantic idea - and believe me you would not be the first when it comes to having a child.

Wishing you the very best of luck in everything that is to come for you. You will no doubt have a family when the time and circumstances are right.

LegacyUser

iguana wrote: »

If he's married in a legal marriage he needs a legal divorce. No matter what religion the ceremony is conducted through, the legality of the marriage is all that would matter. Islamic law is utterly irrelevant, it's the law of the land that counts.

In Ireland you need to have been legally separated for 4 of the preceding 5 years in order to complete a divorce. And even when divorced there are still certain legal and financial obligations which can last a lifetime.

The trick is to not get married in Ireland. Ireland recognises foreign marriages, and also foreign divorces, as long as you didn't make the mistake of getting married in Ireland.

OP, I've no idea how to answer your issue, but as above poster said, you should quite mature.
People are right to point out the pitfalls, but I'm sure your friends have asked you in good faith. My feeling would be to hold off however. I doubt that this will be your last opportunity to have a baby. Get on with enjoying your own youth for now?

virmilitaris

rightthingtodo wrote: »

Another complication is that they are highly liberal-moderate Muslims, who don't practice the religion but stay with it as their family want them to. The family can't find out they are lesbians, so one of them has to marry me (which means as an atheist myself, I'd have to convert to Islam for wholly fake reasons), as you can't have a child out of wedlock. This ceremony would have to be confirmed in their country of origin, and then when I return to Ireland, I'd seek a divorce and apostatize from Islam. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Punishment_for_apostasy

tinkerbell

rightthingtodo wrote: »

I really want a child

Ignoring all your other insane reasons for trying to make this whole crazy idea sound rational in your head, if you go through with this - this will not be YOUR child. It will be the child of two other people. You will have nothing to do with this child, you will not raise it, it will not be yours.

OP, you're 22, you sound young and foolish. The way you go on, you make yourself seem like you're 52 and have no chance of having children of your own. How could you even think that this idea sounds reasonable? You want to marry one of these people just to provide sperm? Because at the end of the day, that child will not be yours. You will only have produced what is needed to make it happen, but other than that, it's theirs.

Not only that but to want to do a fake marriage and then divorce? You really do need to get a good dose of realism here.