New look Cork Golf Club

curly from cork

At last 18 holes back in play. The course has undergone major work during the winter. Stage one of three. Lots of trees removed. backs of greens opened up, bushes removed. New gorses planted, New green on the 12 th. Now a double tiered green. All bunkers refurbished , moved or improved. Some tee boxes have been re laid. New paths. All along the coastal line of the 4 th cleared.
All in all I think its fantastic. I think it makes it a more challanging course to play on a weekly basis. Has anyone played it yet or had a chance to see the changes ?

Miley Byrne

curly from cork wrote: »

At last 18 holes back in play. The course has undergone major work during the winter. Stage one of three. Lots of trees removed. backs of greens opened up, bushes removed. New gorses planted, New green on the 12 th. Now a double tiered green. All bunkers refurbished , moved or improved. Some tee boxes have been re laid. New paths. All along the coastal line of the 4 th cleared.
All in all I think its fantastic. I think it makes it a more challanging course to play on a weekly basis. Has anyone played it yet or had a chance to see the changes ?

Sounds good alright, I havn't played it yet this year but played it 2 years ago and really liked it. I'd be interested to know if there were any opens coming up there shortly to see the improvements.

curly from cork

Munster strokeplay championships takes place Sat and Sun. Id be interested to hear how the changes are greeted. Check on the club website for details of open days under visitors tee bookings , they are updated regularly.

mr.mickels

What is the membership situation in Cork Golf Club, I heard they were taking in new members, what is the entrance/yearly fee?

curly from cork

They continue to take members as they have always done. But perhaps the wait isnt as long. I m not sure on that. The joining fee has not dropped its approx 15 k , annual sub approx 1,400.

jimmystars

curly from cork wrote: »

At last 18 holes back in play. The course has undergone major work during the winter. Stage one of three. Lots of trees removed. backs of greens opened up, bushes removed. New gorses planted, New green on the 12 th. Now a double tiered green. All bunkers refurbished , moved or improved. Some tee boxes have been re laid. New paths. All along the coastal line of the 4 th cleared.
All in all I think its fantastic. I think it makes it a more challanging course to play on a weekly basis. Has anyone played it yet or had a chance to see the changes ?

Played it today and i have to say it looks a lot better. Removing the trees was a great call. Views are great. Bunkers are a lot more appealing to look at off the tee and add to the holes. I do think they are a little too deep from the fairway as you almost have no hope of going for the green out of them.
That would be the only complaint i have and all in all terrific improvements around the course.

curly from cork

Yes I would agree with you re the fairway bunkers. I can only manage a wedge out of all of them , off the ladies tee a really good position A drive leaves you in the bunker. no reward there. The course seems to be playing 2 shots harder with the changes.

SARZY

Somebody told me the members dont play in the summer, something to do with yachts.
Its a great course though I hear and if they ever have an Open singles for €15 I will give it a go.

DoctaDee

Are they still looking for 85 yoyos green fee ? ...

jimmystars

SARZY wrote: »

Its a great course though I hear and if they ever have an Open singles for €15 I will give it a go.

Open singles 35. Might be 15 for junior opens or something like that. Well worth a look. Its a course that i like more each time i play.

G1032

curly from cork wrote: »

They continue to take members as they have always done. But perhaps the wait isnt as long. I m not sure on that. The joining fee has not dropped its approx 15 k , annual sub approx 1,400.

:eek:
Oh holy mother of God.
Ballinrobe, my home course, is €647 per year, with no joining fee.
Playing golf a long time now but if I had to pay €1400 per year I'm afraid I'd be selling the clubs............

G1032

curly from cork wrote: »

Yes I would agree with you re the fairway bunkers. I can only manage a wedge out of all of them , off the ladies tee a really good position A drive leaves you in the bunker. no reward there. The course seems to be playing 2 shots harder with the changes.

How do you mean? How good a well positioned drive be in a bunker?

bailey99

open singles there last year were 25euro. The recession kicks in and Cork Golf Club up their entry fee by 40%.

The members dont play Cork Golf Club supposedly, cause if they are seen on the course in the summer, people will presume they dont own a yacht as they should be out in the yacht down in Crosshaven during the summer, not on the golf course!!!

Dormy

bailey99 wrote: »

open singles there last year were 25euro. The recession kicks in and Cork Golf Club up their entry fee by 40%.


The members dont play Cork Golf Club supposedly, cause if they are seen on the course in the summer, people will presume they dont own a yacht as they should be out in the yacht down in Crosshaven during the summer, not on the golf course!!!

1. Played in 2 open singles there last year and both were 35euro


2. I have no connection with CGC but this is a ridiculous generalisation.

As for people complaining about not being able to reach the green from a bunker........
lets get rid of hazards completely from golf courses

regarding the changes. An already difficult course has been made harder. In general I like them but some of the bunkering is excessive

bailey99

Dormy wrote: »

1. Played in 2 open singles there last year and both were 35euro


2. I have no connection with CGC but this is a ridiculous generalisation.

As for people complaining about not being able to reach the green from a bunker........
lets get rid of hazards completely from golf courses

regarding the changes. An already difficult course has been made harder. In general I like them but some of the bunkering is excessive

sense of houmour Dormy????? That story about the yachts is well known in golfing circles in Cork about members of Cork Golf club and summer golf. A bit tongue in cheek and a throwback to the days when Cork Golf Club members were up their own ar$es!

gorfield

Ive played a good bit in cork gc and i think the bunkering is absoloutly spot on. they still need time for the sand to settle so best judged maybe 12mths time. Stunning job on the new 12th green also, although im not keen on the tree removal around the 16th green...... Its very rare they do anything there thats not spot on, so well done to them.

curly from cork

G1032 wrote: »

How do you mean? How good a well positioned drive be in a bunker?

Thats exactly what I mean ! Nailing it off the reds straight out the middle of the fairway leaves you in a bunker, its the only problem I have personally with the new bunkers. Its on the 11 th , may not come into play off the mens tees.
Fairway bunkers should be just that I think... I can get no more than a wedge to any of them... bunkers lessons maybe still think the 11 th is unfair though.

curly from cork

gorfield wrote: »

Ive played a good bit in cork gc and i think the bunkering is absoloutly spot on. they still need time for the sand to settle so best judged maybe 12mths time. Stunning job on the new 12th green also, although im not keen on the tree removal around the 16th green...... Its very rare they do anything there thats not spot on, so well done to them.

Agree 12 th green is a great job.

curly from cork

bailey99 wrote: »

sense of houmour Dormy????? That story about the yachts is well known in golfing circles in Cork about members of Cork Golf club and summer golf. A bit tongue in cheek and a throwback to the days when Cork Golf Club members were up their own ar$es!

Still saving for the yacht having paid my sub !!!

Jul3s

curly from cork wrote: »

Thats exactly what I mean ! Nailing it off the reds straight out the middle of the fairway leaves you in a bunker, its the only problem I have personally with the new bunkers. Its on the 11 th , may not come into play off the mens tees.

Hit 3 wood or learn to hit your driver further.

Fairway bunkers should be just that I think... I can get no more than a wedge to any of them... bunkers lessons maybe still think the 11 th is unfair though

Maybe the course designer made a mistake I think you should write a strongly worded letter to the management.

mr.mickels

jimmystars wrote: »

Played it today and i have to say it looks a lot better. Removing the trees was a great call. Views are great. Bunkers are a lot more appealing to look at off the tee and add to the holes. I do think they are a little too deep from the fairway as you almost have no hope of going for the green out of them.
That would be the only complaint i have and all in all terrific improvements around the course.

having played it recently I couldn't agree with that. I thought the bunkers don't look right at all off the tee, greenside bunkers are shaped a bit unusual also, I can't say they are an attractive shape, prefered them before, and I pity the guys who have to cut the grass around them. I wasn't in any of the fairway bunkers but the others in the group were and were just splashing out, no shot at the green which is bad, removing the recovery shot isn't right, and they just look wrong from the tee, not sure what style they were going for but I thought regular shaped bunkers like the 2 fairway bunkers you see at the 18th in augusta and almost everywhere else etc, for example, looks much better.

Corkblowin

mr.mickels wrote: »

I thought the bunkers don't look right at all off the tee, greenside bunkers are shaped a bit unusual also, I can't say they are an attractive shape, prefered them before...............and they just look wrong from the tee, not sure what style they were going for but I thought regular shaped bunkers like the 2 fairway bunkers you see at the 18th in augusta and almost everywhere else etc, for example, looks much better.

Played it for the first time in a while last sunday, and while I don't entirely agree with people unhappy that they can't advance far out the fairway bunkers (they are hazards - you're supposed to avoid them or pay the penalty) I totally agree with mr mickels - they just don't look right.

They appeared to be going for the curvy 'flower' shaped bunkers with lots of fingers of sand/grass & mounding - but they are not of a big enough scale for it to be successful. They would need to take up about 3 times the size & wouldnt have been right at all. Would have been much more aesthetically pleasing & true to the original course if they were simple rounded bunkers, maybe even with revetted faces like on some links courses.

Otherwise the changes coupled with the wind certainly added a few of shots to an already tricky course.

The_Architect

Corkblowin wrote: »

Played it for the first time in a while last sunday, and while I don't entirely agree with people unhappy that they can't advance far out the fairway bunkers (they are hazards - you're supposed to avoid them or pay the penalty) I totally agree with mr mickels - they just don't look right.

They appeared to be going for the curvy 'flower' shaped bunkers with lots of fingers of sand/grass & mounding - but they are not of a big enough scale for it to be successful. They would need to take up about 3 times the size & wouldnt have been right at all. Would have been much more aesthetically pleasing & true to the original course if they were simple rounded bunkers, maybe even with revetted faces like on some links courses.

Otherwise the changes coupled with the wind certainly added a few of shots to an already tricky course.

I agree with a lot of this.

Firstly, 100% on fairway bunkers. They are hazards. You are supposed to avoid them. Hit the ball somewhere else. That is why they are there.

Secondly, scale of bunkers. Almost correct. It is less the scale of the sand that makes them look wrong and more the lack of scale in the surrounds. These should have been worked out much further making the slopes less severe and more natural. Unless he was going for a certain rudimentary style deliberately (possible).

However, the call for circular bunkers (as at Augusta) I disagree with. Go back and look at how Augusta bunkers were initially shaped in 1934. Ditto with the majority of MacKenzie courses. It has been maintenance practices over the intervening 80 years that have rounded off all these artistic shapes.

mr.mickels

The_Architect wrote: »

I agree with a lot of this.

Firstly, 100% on fairway bunkers. They are hazards. You are supposed to avoid them. Hit the ball somewhere else. That is why they are there.

Secondly, scale of bunkers. Almost correct. It is less the scale of the sand that makes them look wrong and more the lack of scale in the surrounds. These should have been worked out much further making the slopes less severe and more natural. Unless he was going for a certain rudimentary style deliberately (possible).

However, the call for circular bunkers (as at Augusta) I disagree with. Go back and look at how Augusta bunkers were initially shaped in 1934. Ditto with the majority of MacKenzie courses. It has been maintenance practices over the intervening 80 years that have rounded off all these artistic shapes.

In many cases they are an unfair hazard that are positioned incorrectly and provide too great a penalty by eliminating the recovery shot. Some of the bunkers are very close to where a good drive would land, and in many cases a shot to the green should still be possible, the sand itself is enough to provide an added degree of difficulty. The bunkers in some cases detract from the hole rather than enhance it, which is the purpose of placing them there.

I don't call for round bunker shapes on the fairways, but certainly alot more rounded and visible from the tee then they are. I am not interested in the shape of bunkers in 1934, but am interested in how they are in 2011.

The_Architect

mr.mickels wrote: »

In many cases they are an unfair hazard that are positioned incorrectly and provide too great a penalty by eliminating the recovery shot. Some of the bunkers are very close to where a good drive would land, and in many cases a shot to the green should still be possible, the sand itself is enough to provide an added degree of difficulty. The bunkers in some cases detract from the hole rather than enhance it, which is the purpose of placing them there.

I don't call for round bunker shapes on the fairways, but certainly alot more rounded and visible from the tee then they are. I am not interested in the shape of bunkers in 1934, but am interested in how they are in 2011.

Then this is not where a good drive should land. Asking the golfer to hit the ball away from the line he instinctively wants to go is good design, so long as there is sufficient room elsewhere.

I disagree with your analysis.

A shot to the green out of a fairway hazard should never be an automatic assumption. Why have them at all if you make the recovery almost as easy as any other shot.

mr.mickels

The_Architect wrote: »

Then this is not where a good drive should land. Asking the golfer to hit the ball away from the line he instinctively wants to go is good design, so long as there is sufficient room elsewhere.

I disagree with your analysis.

A shot to the green out of a fairway hazard should never be an automatic assumption. Why have them at all if you make the recovery almost as easy as any other shot.

I disagree with your analysis.

"Asking the golfer to hit the ball on a different line to where he wants to go is good design". Now I would imagine only a hacker with a limited knowledge of what good golf is would come out with that. As a former scratch player I would be happy to trust my own views on the matter. Placing bunkers where a good drive would ordinarily land is just adding gimmicks to the course and doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game. I am all in favour of fairway bunkers that are well-positioned but they must be fair. And lets call them sand bunkers, which is exactly what they are and drop this "hazards" word. And part of the issue is I don't agree there is sufficient room elsewhere on the fairway where some of the bunkers were placed. I managed to avoid all bunkers on the day as I hit it very well, the others in the group were all low handicappers and were in a few of them after hitting fairly decent shots. I don't entirely agree with the positioning on some of them and I totally disagree that a fairway bunker should eliminate all chances of going for the green, the bunkers on the 18th in Augusta are a good example of strategically placed difficult bunkers that still allow a shot to the green for those with the skills to pull it off.

The_Architect

mr.mickels wrote: »

I disagree with your analysis.

"Asking the golfer to hit the ball on a different line to where he wants to go is good design". Now I would imagine only a hacker with a limited knowledge of what good golf is would come out with that. As a former scratch player I would be happy to trust my own views on the matter. Placing bunkers where a good drive would ordinarily land is just adding gimmicks to the course and doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game. I am all in favour of fairway bunkers that are well-positioned but they must be fair. And lets call them sand bunkers, which is exactly what they are and drop this "hazards" word. And part of the issue is I don't agree there is sufficient room elsewhere on the fairway where some of the bunkers were placed. I managed to avoid all bunkers on the day as I hit it very well, the others in the group were all low handicappers and were in a few of them after hitting fairly decent shots. I don't entirely agree with the positioning on some of them and I totally disagree that a fairway bunker should eliminate all chances of going for the green, the bunkers on the 18th in Augusta are a good example of strategically placed difficult bunkers that still allow a shot to the green for those with the skills to pull it off.

On the first point, it is clear there will be no persuading you on an internet forum. But the fact you play off scratch has no impact on this debate. You clearly don't want to have to use your brain on the golf course. And incidentally, who said a golf course must be "fair"? That's not to say that you aren't right about there not being sufficient room elsewhere.

On the second point, there is a valid argument that says no bunker can be wrongly positioned. Look at The Old Course at St Andrews. However, I agree that not all fairway bunkers should eliminate all chances of going for a green. Some should though.

I am not a fan of the 18th at Augusta. One of the weakest holes on the course in my opinion.

Corkblowin

mr.mickels wrote: »

And lets call them sand bunkers, which is exactly what they are and drop this "hazards" word.

Definitions section of R & A Rules of Golf: A "hazard" is any bunker or water hazard.

mr.mickels

Corkblowin wrote: »

Definitions section of R & A Rules of Golf: A "hazard" is any bunker or water hazard.

Thank you for that, after many years playing inter-county golf in UK I am pleased someone defined a hazard for me.
For the purpose of discussing fairway bunkers lets call them sand bunkers, which should not ever carry the same penalty as a water hazard on a parkland course, unless you are unlucky enough to finish near the lip.

And as for the idiotic remark made by the other guy, I haven't met any players playing off scratch who don't use their brains on the course. The fact that I avoided all fairway bunkers in Cork golf club on the said day on my first game since the remodelling would suggest I used a combination of brain and skill. And I stand by my opinion that I don't particularly like the look, positioning or playability of their fairway bunkers. It is my personal opinion that they detract rather than enhance some of the holes. And I would not compare parkland fairway bunkers with St. Andrews or any other links course as they are very different, the links obviously need much deeper traps to prevent wind erosion plus they don't have trees to punish the wayward shots.