Honda 50 auto - occasional loss of drive

mickdw

Anybody familiar with the 3 speed fully auto setup as ocasionally fitted to honda 50.
The problem is that it often runs perfectly going through the gears itself faultlessly while the next time I start it, it will just have zero drive.
If it engages at all, its perfect. I opened the housing and took the various clutches and all looked ok. Ive a feeling the problem is further inside and down to a faulty one way ratchet/clutch mechanism.

Anyone have any experience of these?

turbodiesel

Is it selectign a gear Ok. Is it a honda 50 or a chinese pit bike type thing?

mickdw

Its a honda c50 lac auto. year 1982.
Sometimes when I start it, its 100%, goes through the 3 gears perfectly.
Othertimes when I start it, I can rev it on the spot and it just wont go into gear/drive.
If it moves at all, everything is 100% until its turned off, then on restart, it may or may not be a no go again.
If it is not driving, if I let the revs down til it nearly cuts out, I can sometime then hear a rachet type clicking and it might then click into gear and then away I go.

Poor Uncle Tom

Sounds like a worn selector problem to me.

salysol

mickdw wrote: »

Anybody familiar with the 3 speed fully auto setup as ocasionally fitted to honda 50.
The problem is that it often runs perfectly going through the gears itself faultlessly while the next time I start it, it will just have zero drive.
If it engages at all, its perfect. I opened the housing and took the various clutches and all looked ok. Ive a feeling the problem is further inside and down to a faulty one way ratchet/clutch mechanism.

Anyone have any experience of these?

i'm nearly sure James motorcycles in Gorey still has a brand new auto honda 50 engine for sale , he was looking €150 for it.
might be the easy and cheapest way to go ,if you want to keep it original ?

mickdw

salysol wrote: »

i'm nearly sure James motorcycles in Gorey still has a brand new auto honda 50 engine for sale , he was looking €150 for it.
might be the easy and cheapest way to go ,if you want to keep it original ?

Cheers, will look into that. Yes my own engine has a fair bit of wear anyway and used ones seem to be around 100 too so thanks for that.

mickdw

Rang them, Its not a new engine and has been left up for 10 years or so. He couldnt say what kind of condition it was in so I will give it a miss I think.

JAMESYOB

mickdw wrote: »

Anybody familiar with the 3 speed fully auto setup as ocasionally fitted to honda 50.
The problem is that it often runs perfectly going through the gears itself faultlessly while the next time I start it, it will just have zero drive.
If it engages at all, its perfect. I opened the housing and took the various clutches and all looked ok. Ive a feeling the problem is further inside and down to a faulty one way ratchet/clutch mechanism.

Anyone have any experience of these?

have you solved this problem with your gears? my 1982 honda 50 automatic is acting up the exact same way the last month. and have been trying to solve it but no joy?

mickdw

JAMESYOB wrote: »

have you solved this problem with your gears? my 1982 honda 50 automatic is acting up the exact same way the last month. and have been trying to solve it but no joy?

I bought a replacement engine and am in the process of swapping bits so hopefully it will be ok.

JAMESYOB

mickdw wrote: »

I bought a replacement engine and am in the process of swapping bits so hopefully it will be ok.[/QUOTE
what areas would you recommend me to check first to try locate the problem firstly before i have to start serious ripping in the engine?

mickdw

JAMESYOB wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

I bought a replacement engine and am in the process of swapping bits so hopefully it will be ok.[/QUOTE
what areas would you recommend me to check first to try locate the problem firstly before i have to start serious ripping in the engine?

Getting parts is probably the biggest issue with these autos.
All im doing is taking transmission from bought unit and engine part from my own. Its not major surgery but still messy enough.
Before I bought replacement unit I opened the auto box to see what was happening. Its quite ingenious and as such the way its designed means it will always go up through the gears when engine speed increases. Its all centrifugal force.
After removing all three wet clutches, there was little wrong but looking through the haynes manual, there is a one way rachet further inside the engine that I think was causing my problem. This involves splitting the engine case which I wasnt willing to do so went looking for the replacement. I can also hear a clicking if the bike fails to move as if something was just not catching.
One other thing, there is a black plastic or very hard rubber toothed ring which the spinning clutches engage with to pick up 1st gear. Mine had the teeth well worn on this and I was sure it was the problem but when checking this with box opened, it still seemed to engage fine with the worn teeth. Couldnt find a replacement for this anyway.
Im waiting for the summer before I attack it again.
If you are replacing any shiny bits, be wary of much of the ebay stuff. I bought indicators etc and after 1 year they are gone from rust again.
The haynes manual was hard enough found for the auto. Do you have one?

JAMESYOB

thanks very much for your advice and help. yes i got the Haynes manual for the 82 - 84 automatics on ebay after buying the bike. was reading up on the areas that you have mentioned on the tread in the manual and i gives a very good description of what to do. hopefully i won't have to go to the extent you have to fix it but have a feeling i will, think ill follow your step and try narrow down the problem! the bike was going perfect to good actually prior to Christmas and in recent weeks its started loosing its drive. did 20-30 miles Sunday and no problems even when i stopped and started up again it was fine but when i went home and tried starting it later to move it in to the garage it loss all power. good advice with regards purchasing parts on ebay, i was going to buy a new kick starter as the spring is gone in it for it to flick back in!

JAMESYOB

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-C50-LA-HAYNES-MANUAL-/171003842261?pt=UK_CarParts_Vehicles_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item27d09f8ed5 if anyone is looking for one

mickdw

Did ya get the bike fixed?

JAMESYOB

not yet still waiting on few parts to come from england to get it done e.g. gaskets, plates etc! the strange thing is its not happen as much in recent weeks! was offered a spare automatic engine for parts too the other day so might take him up on that he was telling me a few parts are becoming very rare as honda have discontinued them! after getting a suzuki gz125 yesterday too so going to have plenty of work to be doing on both now! will let you know how i get on