Lambda sensor needed - Carina E

manatoo

Hi all

Need a Lambda sensor for a 1995 1.6 Carina E with the 4A-FE engine. Tried all the breakers yards in Dublin that I know of on Friday to no avail...this is the last ditch attempt, if anyone knows of one or somewhere there is one please give me a shout...dealer part is €350 and the universals you can get in the motor factors doesn't work in these so unless I can find one cheap it looks like the end for this old lady....

Cheers all

shamwari

Beware, there are several different types used in that car, so make sure that any one you pick up matches the one in it.

Can you not get a new OEM replacement for it?

lomb

There on ebay for 100 euro or so. Do a search on ebay.co.uk, change shipping to ireland. Heres the page not sure if you can see it. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_nkw=carina%20e%20lambda&_dmpt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&_ds=1&_fcid=99&_localstpos=&_stpos=&gbr=1

manatoo

Hey guys. Just at work now so I can't get onto ebay. I got a PM from a guy with an Ebay shop so I've asked him for more details about it.

Lomb - would that part be second hand for €100? Would he take it back if it wasn't working??

manatoo

shamwari wrote: »

Can you not get a new OEM replacement for it?

OEM part = €350. Not worth that kind of money for this old machine

crosshair1

An avensis 99on petrol sensor will fit this(if its a 4wire), I think you may need to extend the sensor wiring, also there used to be a flange adapter available to convert a generic sensor to fit. Any joints will need to be soldered.

windsurfer99ie

manatoo wrote: »

Hi all

Need a Lambda sensor for a 1995 1.6 Carina E with the 4A-FE engine. Tried all the breakers yards in Dublin that I know of on Friday to no avail...this is the last ditch attempt, if anyone knows of one or somewhere there is one please give me a shout...dealer part is €350 and the universals you can get in the motor factors doesn't work in these so unless I can find one cheap it looks like the end for this old lady....

Cheers all

I replaced mine a couple of years ago, and although I had been told the price would be around €350, Denis Mahoney charged me €200-250 for a Toyota part. And yes, it was for a 4A-FE. I realise you've almost certainly checked different dealers, but it might be worth a call...

BTW - I ran mine for a year or so (and actually got it through the NCT) with the old one not working ...

MAYOMICK

Is this sensor affecting the performance of the car.I had a 1994 CarinaE that went through nct twice with Lambda sensor gone.I now have an Avensis vvti with same problem and it passed the nct also.

manatoo

MAYOMICK wrote: »

Is this sensor affecting the performance of the car.I had a 1994 CarinaE that went through nct twice with Lambda sensor gone.I now have an Avensis vvti with same problem and it passed the nct also.

There's no notable effect on the performance but I'm just very picky about these things! Is your engine management light on constantly now?

shamwari

If the car passes the NCT on emissions and there is a fault code for the sensor then chances are that the heater in it has failed, but the sensor itself is actually working. The heater just gets the sensor up to working temp faster from cold.

There are a large number of sensors used on the Carina E and there are known issues with using generic sensors on these. One of things (I suspect) is that Toyota may perhaps use their sensors in slightly different ways to other manufacturers - I read somewhere about sensor current as well as voltages being monitored.

crosshair1

I think the biggest part of the problem with generic sensors on these was people wiring them up wrong due to the wiring colour scheme and not soldering the joints, on a standard zirconia sensor the cell output is going to be 0-1v going from lean-rich. The heater circuit may be different resistances and as a result draw an incorrect current but until eobd vehicles ecu's werent designed to mointor this so its certainly not an issue this vehicle.

manatoo

Bloody hell the saga continues...the cheapest source I now have for this part is a dealer at €280 which after exhausting all other avenues I had decided I was going to go for however they have told me that since it's such an old part, if it doesn't work or isn't the right one they won't take it back and refund me so just to be on the safe side I checked the part number on the old one - 89463-20080, the dealer specified part is 89463-29045. On querying why the part number would be different - "I couldnt tell you"

what to do what to do....

shamwari

crosshair1 wrote: »

The heater circuit may be different resistances and as a result draw an incorrect current but until eobd vehicles ecu's werent designed to mointor this so its certainly not an issue this vehicle.

There is some sort of difference with how these things work compared to other sensors, and this explains why there are issues with some copies of the OEM one....I'm trying to source the piece where I read about it and post it up.

manatoo wrote: »

Bloody hell the saga continues...the cheapest source I now have for this part is a dealer at €280 which after exhausting all other avenues I had decided I was going to go for however they have told me that since it's such an old part, if it doesn't work or isn't the right one they won't take it back and refund me so just to be on the safe side I checked the part number on the old one - 89463-20080, the dealer specified part is 89463-29045. On querying why the part number would be different - "I couldnt tell you"

what to do what to do....

Seen as the part number is different to the dealer one, could it be that someone has already tried replacing the sensor?

By the way, how sure are you that your sensor is actually faulty??

shamwari

I found this - it's not the article I was after but is of relevance.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52250

EDIT: and read this just for sport.....http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28544

lomb

If it passes the NCT just drive it till it dies. Pointless spending the time and money on it.

beachlife

I have one you can have it for 50 uros, a direct fit flange type for a 4a-fe engine it is new(was fitted to car for testing) and works fine is your car trowing up a heater fault or lambda range fault?

crosshair1

Did you get this fixed??
You wont go wrong with a genuine at 50eu!!

shamwari wrote: »

EDIT: and read this just for sport.....http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28544

I honestly dont think the ecu is capable of monitoring current draw(or resistance) on these and that the problem arises when the coolant temp reaches closed loop region and there is still no activity from the sensor, I have fitted ls05 and ls06(2 and 4 ohm resp.) generic bosch sensors to carina-e's with welded bosses and blanking the original port without problem.
White box lambda sensors will definitely yield a different result.

shamwari

I'd be the first to agree with you on the face of it as current sensing seems a but before the time of these things. But....as I said in an earlier post, I've read an article from somewhere before that something along those lines actually happens with these sensors. As you said, hit 65C or so on the coolant, go closed loop, and you're away with the mix. But not apparently so with these things. Why a generic sensor doesn't work and only the genuine will is something of a mystery. Lambda sensors are not the black art they once were and you would imagine that a properly functioning pattern copy could be made from a reverse-engineered original. But there are many Carina owners out there who swear otherwise, and point to the original as being the only way out. One way or another, I like most others would like to know what exactly is so special about these things.

Incidentally, I heard one the other day about a 2003 Civic having a non-genuine Lambda fitted and it flagged an EGR code within minutes of the part being fitted. Turns out that this is something of a known issue: again non genuine sensors don't work properly and it required purchase of the original Lambda from Honda to fix it properly.

manatoo

crosshair1 wrote: »

Did you get this fixed??
You wont go wrong with a genuine at 50eu!!

Hi Crosshair. I PM'd beachlife but never got any response so no it's still not fixed and I now definitely am seeing a large increase in fuel consumption. So annoying because now of all times I'm having to do a huge mileage. There's a guy on ebay in Germany offering a part with the right part number but the picture looks wrong for €70. I think I'll take a chance on it. Next best price I've seen is aroun €160 for worldcarparts.

Can any of you guys do the blink test on the carina e to make sure this is definitely the problem?

Cheers all

beachlife

Hi
I got that pm. From your pm i think you should change the title of this thread to "Do i need a lambda sensor?"

I offered you a sensor for 50 euros and you pm'd me asking if i was a mechanic and that you don't know if you need the sensor or not,Get someone to diagnose the fault and then start looking for the part and don't be wasting peoples time,cheers.

manatoo

beachlife wrote: »

Hi
I got that pm. From your pm i think you should change the title of this thread to "Do i need a lambda sensor?"

I offered you a sensor for 50 euros and you pm'd me asking if i was a mechanic and that you don't know if you need the sensor or not,Get someone to diagnose the fault and then start looking for the part and don't be wasting peoples time,cheers.

Listen, when a non-mechanic running a car on an extremely tight budget gets a problem all he can do is read up as much as possible on what the likely problem is. From doing this and speaking to other more helpful boardsies the problem is by far most likely to be the lambda sensor.

Asking a fellow boardsie for help/assistance/knowledge is exactly what the DIY forum in motors is for. Far from me wasting your time, I wasted a week waiting for your response so that I would be providing a sale to a fellow boardsie rather than to a UK parts store. It would have taken you as long to tell me how to do the diagnosis/tell me you don't know how to do the diagnosis/point me in the direction of getting the diagnosis done as it did for you to type the above ridiculous response

Get some boards spirit or stop wasting people's time

Cheers

beachlife

Look if you want the sensor it's there. Okay. I just got annoyed because I'm giving it away for 50 and instead you ask me alot of questions.
Now I can't diagnose you car on a site. I'd need to plug it in and get the codes if your on a tight budget. The get a code read for 30 euros a post the results.

shamwari

It's possible to read the codes from those things by shorting out two pins in the diagnostic connector and then counting the number of flashes of the engine management light. If you check it up on the web, you should find a few sites which list the exact procedure for doing this, and a table of corresponding fault codes.

If you have a Lambda sensor fault and the car is guzzling fuel, it won't be doing the Cat any good continuing to drive it as is. Also, if it transpires that the fault code points to Lambda sensor, check all of the connections and wiring to the sensor first before replacing the sensor. Don't automatically assume that a lambda fault code means the sensor has a fault

EDIT: I posted this last year: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showpost.php?p=68223628&postcount=5 (sounds familar, eh....?)

Avns1s

The Carina doesn't do OBD II so no codes can be read!

However it does use a much simpler system whcih requires no special equipment. This is it, BUT you carry it out at your own risk. I cannot be responsible if you cross the wrong terminals.



Carina E Diagnostics:

The On Board Diagnostics (OBD) on the Carina is easy to use. It does
not require any specialist tools either. The procedures are as follows;
1. With the engine turned off, open the bonnet and open the cover of
the service socket marked 'Diagnosis' located near the nearside suspension.
2. Use a suitable piece of wire or a paper clip to link terminals marked
E1 and TE1 together. (Pins 4 and 13 on the Avensis i.e. Pin 4 from the left on the top row and pin 5 from the left on the bottom row)
3. Turn the ignition key to 'ON' position. But do not start the engine.
4. The 'check engine' warning light inside the speedo meter panel area
will start to flash and by counting the number and patterns of flashes
allows you to determine the fault code if there is any.


How to read the codes:

The fault codes used for the Carinas are all two digit numbers.
By the pattern that it flashes, you determine the first digit and the
second digit. But first of all, when the light flashes continuously,
this means there is no fault recorded. If there is a fault, the way
it flashes will differ. For instance, if the code 31 is stored, it will
flash 3 times constantly, then there is a gap for a second or so, then
it flashes once. After a while, it repeats itself. Supposing the code
24 was stored, then it will flash constantly twice, then a gap, followed
by further constant 4 flashes. If there is more than two fault codes
stored, then it will show the codes by ascending order and once all
codes are shown, it repeats itself.

Code 21 = O2 sensor.



List of other codes:
TROUBLE CODE IDENTIFICATION
Code No. Circuit Affected
No Code .................................... System Normal
11 .............................................. ECU (B+)
12 & 13 ....................................... RPM Signal
14 ....................................... Ignition Signal
21 .................................. Oxygen Sensor Signal
22 ........................... Coolant Temp. Sensor Signal
23 ........................ Intake Air Temp. Sensor Signal
24 ........................ Intake Air Temp. Sensor Signal
25 (1) ............................. Lean Air/Fuel Mixture
26 (1) ............................. Rich Air/Fuel Mixture
31 .................................. Airflow Meter Signal
32 .................................. Airflow Meter Signal
(2) HAC Sensor Signal
34 (2) ............................. Turbocharger Pressure
35 (3) ............................. Turbocharger Pressure
41 ....................... Throttle Position Sensor Signal
42 ........................... Vehicle Speed Sensor Signal
43 ........................................ Starter Signal
51 ......................................... Switch Signal
52 (4) ............................... Knock Sensor Signal
53 (4) ........................ Knock Sensor Control (ECU)
54 (3) ............................ Intercooler ECU Signal
71 (5) ............................ EGR System Malfunction
(1) - Only applicable to 3S-GE and 4WD models.
(2) - Only applicable to 4WD models.
(3) - Only applicable to 4WD models.
(4) - Only applicable to 4WD models.
(5) - Only applicable to 3S-GE and Calif. applications of
4WD models.
11 ............................ Main Relay and/or Circuit,
Ignition Switch and/or Circuit, ECU
12 ....... Distributor and/or Circuit, Starter Signal, ECU
13 ....................... Distributor and/or Circuit, ECU
14 ............ Ignition Coil, Ignitor and/or Circuit, ECU
21 ..................... O2 Sensor and/or O2 Heater Signal
and/or Circuit, ECU
22 .............. Coolant Temp. Sensor and/or Circuit, ECU
24 ............... Intake Air Temp. Sensor or Circuit, ECU
25 (1) ........ Injector and/or Circuit, O2 Sensor and/or,
Circuit, Fuel Line Pressure, Airflow Meter,
Coolant Temp. Sensor, Ignition System, ECU
26 (1) ...... Injector and/or Circuit, Fuel Line Pressure,
Cold Start Injector, Airflow Meter,
Coolant Temp. Sensor, ECU
31 ..................... Airflow Meter and/or Circuit, ECU
34 (2) ...................... Turbo, Turbo Pressure Sensor
and/or Circuit, ECU
35 (2) ............. Turbo Pressure Sensor and/or Circuit,
Airflow Meter, ECU, Intercooler
41 .......... Throttle Position Sensor and/or Circuit, ECU
42 ...................... Speed Sensor and/or Circuit, ECU
43 ................... Ignition Switch and/or Circuit, ECU
51 ............... Throttle Position Sensor and/or Circuit
A/C Switch Circuit, A/C Amplifier, ECU
Neutral/Start Switch and/or Circuit,
Accelerator Pedal and/or Cable
52 (3) ...................... Knock Sensor or Circuit, ECU
53 (3) ............................................... ECU
54 (4) ................. Intercooler, Coolant Level Sensor
and/or Circuit, Intercooler Water Pump
and/or Circuit, Intercooler ECU, ECU
71 (5) ........... EGR System, EGR Gas Temp. Sensor and/or
Circuit, BVSV for EGR and/or Circuit, ECU
(1) - 4WD & 3S-GE California models only.
(2) - On 4WD models.
(3) - On 4WD models.
(4) - On 4WD models.
(5) - 4WD California models only.

manatoo

Hi

Just thought I'd update you on what happened with this. Asked a local scrappie if he one of these and he came up with one from a 99 Avensis 1.6 which he was sure was the same part just with a different connection. After some adjusting under the bonner for the shorter flex, the engine problem light is out and the car seems to be fixed. Not sure how, my understanding of the lambda sensors in these cars was that they had to be the exact correct one.

Thanks for the instructions on the diagnosis, they were bang on. Very simple process actually. And thanks for the offer of the new lambda sensor too, I may well be looking for that in the future if you still have it!