It's gona be too late 4 a baby!!!

LadyRussell

I'm 24, my partner is 25.
We've been together for 10 long years!!!

We have already decided not to get married, we are not religious and feel we are perfectly content and happy that getting married couldn't possibly make us any happier than we already are.

Anyway that's not why I'm posting........

So at the moment we are both living with his family.
I have started a new job and he has also just started out on a new venture.
We can't afford to rent and save, so instead are saving a small bit each month towards a house.

We want to build when we can afford to get a mortage so I have suggested that we start looking at sites to get a feel for where we would like to live, you know?

It can take years to find the right place to build a home, my parents spent 5 years in the 90's househunting.

But he says, "sure what's the point, I'm not really worried about that now there is loads of time to find a site"

NO THERE IS NOT!!!!!!!! We would only be able to afford to buy a site without planning permission so you could spend a while waiting to sort that out, usually you must own the land for about 5 years.

I do NOT want to be an old mum, it just seems that young men nowadays think it is normal to wait until your thirties before you even think of having a family.

I have already had two miscarraiges, shouldn't that scream alarmbells that maybe I don't have the best fertility and time is a ticking.......

Without mentioning the baby issue as my real reason for wanting to start looking for somewhere to build, how do I get him to realise we need to start planning now or it will be too late?

seamus

LadyRussell wrote: »

I have already had two miscarraiges, shouldn't that scream alarmbells that maybe I don't have the best fertility and time is a ticking.......

No, it doesn't. A massive amount of women have miscarriages, especially before their first child. One or two miscarriages are not uncommon, and are not indicative of any underlying problem.

Without mentioning the baby issue as my real reason for wanting to start looking for somewhere to build, how do I get him to realise we need to start planning now or it will be too late?

Why are you trying to hide it from him?

You've assumed that he doesn't want to start a family until he's in his thirties, but you haven't even broached the topic with him. He mightn't be thinking that you need to be in a big solid family home before you start a family, that you can start whenever.

You need to spell it out for him. You need to tell him what your plans are, because as you've indicated, they are no longer just your personal plans, they are plans for both of you. Therefore doesn't he have the right to know what you're planning? And doesn't he have the right to have his own plans which you stick together and come up with a coherent plan for both of you?

Unless you tell him what your plans are for the next five years, you're going to find yourself continually frustrated by his actions "derailing" a plan that he knows nothing about. Tell him, straight out, "I would like to start having children before we're 30".

I also wouldn't say that finding somewhere to live takes five years. Your parents probably took a while because they had a home already and were looking for something very, very particular. The same will not be true of a young couple.

Taltos

Few things OP.

1. You need to tell him what your real motivation is here - without open and honest communication your whole relationship is based on a lie - not being overly dramatic but I mean - come off it - you have to talk.

2. Two miscarriages? I do hope you were living together and not in one of your parents homes at the time... Also have you seen a fertility expert / doctor to get a diagnosis - I mean you need an expert to tell you for definite if your clock is ticking fast or if you even can carry to term?

I think you need to talk to him asap - get the site organized if that is what you both want. In the meantime consider living together alone - and if you still want try for a child then go for it - even just rent... Living with his parents while pregnant or with a newborn is just not on at all. The stress this will bring to your relationship will be a dealbreaker.

Finally - you are very young - I understand children are important to you - but at 24 unless you have been told otherwise by a doctor you have years ahead of you. Fair dues if this is what you both want - go for it - but go for it honestly with full disclosure and out of his parents home.

LadyRussell

Ha! Excellent point about him "derailing plans he doesn't even know about".
Makes me feel kinda stupid!

But the main reason I was trying to come up with a way without mentioning babies is because since the last miscarraige it is a topic that has now become unmentionable.

Yes, we were living at home (no birth control tips please, I know them all but sometimes things just fail!! Even twice!)

We def both want to build a house that's what put us (& our parents, hence why we are being encouraged to stay with his family and save like mad) off renting it's just dead money you never see again.

Dont get me wrong I dont want a baby now, I'm up to my eyes with work for the next few years but then hopefully I should be able to work from home.

It would be great to just magically transplant the idea in his head, bypassing any painful conversation!

Actually it's no wonder men always say they can't figure out what woman want!!

It seems to me you would both be better off living together and renting. You can most certainly save while renting and paying for a roof over your head is not "dead money" :rolleyes: You could also plan children that way without having to obsess over owning a house & site.

trio

This "renting is dead money" attitude often leads to such frustration and unhappiness.

It seems really prevalent in Dublin, where you end up living with the parents for years and years and it leads to so much aggravation. The intense feelings of claustraphobia in the parents house, the burden of conforming to house rules, the questions about where you are at all times, the expectation of having to be at home for dinner cos she's made a portion for you, the inability to really buy any homeware at all cos you've no where to store it.....

It just feels like arrested development. And for people who are ready (like you are) to move on to the next stage of life, it can be really stressful.

We rented for years - it was great. We had so much independance and if we didn't like a place? We just got a different place the next year! It was fun. And yes, we managed to save a deposit.

Sure, you tend to watch your money very carefully, but if you both set up one standing order for your rent and another for your savings account, you don't have to think about it, and by the end of the year you'd be suprised how much you'd both have saved between ye.

Anyway, I don't know if it would be feasible, but it would put the pressure of you to have to wait until the house was complete before you get pregnant. You'd have some private space, even if you were renting it. Cos I do agree that if you want your own house built first, then realistically you will be in your thirties, which plainly doesn't suit you at all.

LadyRussell

Sounds like you've been there before trio?!
We're in Galway, out in the country, house is reasonably spacious but I tel ya sometimes it feels like we r all living in a sardine can!
About two months ago I found somewhere 4 us to rent, was about to drop over deposit but his mam talked me out of it.
She is a wonderful woman and means well but she always thinks she knows best! Frustation isn't the word!

It's true though, you don't need to own a house to have a baby.

mood

OP it would be extremely foolish to buy a site with no planning permission. You could spent 100k on a site and NEVER get planning permission! I would be worth spending more if it meant you could definitely build on the site and not throw A LOT of money down the toilet.

LegacyUser

When you are posting text speak on a public forum, you have to assess whether you are approaching the issue in a mature way at all.

neuro-praxis

LadyRussell I mean this with your best intentions at heart. You do not, from your posts, sound mature. I know you have been together a long time, but if you are trying to manipulate your partner into agreeing to something for motivations other than what you are saying to him, you are really not ready to be planning a family with this man.

There are more than religious reasons to be married, too, you know. A civil ceremony is an option, offers you both a lot of security and doesn't even need to be a particularly public affair. If you and your partner do not marry, do you realise that he will not even be a legal guardian of your child, unless you obtain a court order stating that he is?

My suggestions are to speak frankly with your partner about your desires and hopes for the future. If he does not share the same values as you then you need to ask yourself are you willing to compromise or not. Do remember though that many women who experience something as sad and traumatic as a miscarriage often feel a hurried desperation to have a child as soon as possible afterwards. This is natural but perhaps you are not in an ideal position for this just now.

Secondly, you are not really living as adults. You are allowing his family not only to subsidise your living costs while both working but also to manipulate your decisions. It might be time to grow up, cut the apron strings and get on with your lives yourselves.

The best of luck to you.

LegacyUser

LadyRussell wrote: »

But the main reason I was trying to come up with a way without mentioning babies is because since the last miscarraige it is a topic that has now become unmentionable.

Do you mean he doesn't want to talk about it or it is too painful for you?

I assume the pregnancies weren't planned as you mention above that contraception sometimes fails. Is this an issue for him?

LadyRussell

I apologize for the 'text speak', but I have never used a forum before, I didn't realize it was considered immature.
I type fast when I'm at work!
That did hurt though, but I guess from reading my post I do come off rather casual and immature.
Nothing could be further from the truth, I run a section of my family's business on my own and in the next couple of months I should hopefully have my own online business up and running.
We contribute to the household bills, pay for and do all our own cooking.
My partner does ALL the washing, even his sister's when she comes home from college!
Ok, so neither pregnancies were planned but that doesn't mean they weren't very much wanted, in fact my partner was the one who grinned ear to ear when he saw the test turn positive!
I know it's what he wants but as I said it is a sore subject that I can only type about and he knows better than to mention it.
I don't want to wait until my thirties.
I have no intention of doing it now but I just think it needs to be planned and I can't seem to get him interested in looking for a site.
Which only cost approx. 15,000 for an acre without planning permission where we live.
(The perks of living in the middle of nowhere!)
I already have half of that, so my plan isn't as crazy as it may sound.

Yes it is extremely painful, I can't bear to be near other people's babies.
There is a presence missing when we are on our own together.
Anyway, I have no intention of having a baby now, (I'm 24 ffs!!)
But I do think if I want to do it in the next 4/5 years, a bit of planning is essential.
So that's why I'm trying to find a way to get him interested in buying a site but without any mention of the real reason why there is such a rush on to do it.
It is a REALLY strong urge to ignore!!
It's a hard feeling to describe, but just a very strong ache to reproduce.

mood

OP what if you buy a site and NEVER get planning permission for it?
It would be better to save more and buy a site with planning permission.

You need to talk to your boyfriend. But you are both still very young, You can have a baby before buying/building a house. Loads of couples do it.

LadyRussell

Oh sure I agree about the planning permission but when you buy land in the area your family are from, they look more favorably on granting pp.

I know we are young but that's my point, it isn't for now, it is for sometime in the next 4/5 years.

I will be nearly 30, I don't think that is too young to have children.

But it needs some planning now that's what my post was about.

mood

I know a couple who bought a site with planning permission 12 months before they got married. Why do you feel a need to do it so early? You can't railroad you boyfriend into this. You need to sit down and talk and come to a compromise.

LadyRussell

Because land is going for next to nothing at the moment in our area.

I don't want to build a house now, we can't afford that, but we can afford to buy a site without planning permission wait a few years and then apply for planning permission.

Being from the area, having family living in the area for generations, and owning the site for a few years before you apply is the best way to get pp.

It is normally outsiders who buy sites with pp, but I don't know a single family member or local who ever paid for a site with pp.

mood

But just because you ready for this doesn't mean it the right time for your boyfriend. You can't disregard his feelings. The best think you can do is talk to him. Why is that so hard to do?

HavingCrack

LadyRussell wrote: »

Because land is going for next to nothing at the moment in our area.

I don't want to build a house now, we can't afford that, but we can afford to buy a site without planning permission wait a few years and then apply for planning permission.

'Being from the area, having family living in the area for generations, and owning the site for a few years before you apply'

It is normally outsiders who buy sites with pp, but I don't know a single family member or local who ever paid for a site with pp.

Lady Russell, I pretty much never post in this forum but I really feel the need to respond to what you just said. I have a bit of background in planning and I can tell you that 'Being from the area, having family living in the area for generations, and owning the site for a few years before you apply' is not criteria for getting planning permission. Honestly, I don't know any planner officer who would say anything like that. One off rural housing is not looked favourably upon by a lot of councils at the minute. Also, it won't be "locals" deciding whether you can build there or not, it'll be whichever council planning department you fall under and you might get an awkward planner. I'm not saying you won't get planning permission, but you seem very misinformed regarding planning law.

spinandscribble

OP I can tell you from experience (not my own, people i've known) that is a myth regard PP, especially nowadays.

I think your bf's right, there is no need to rush, you need to stop putting the horse before the cart. Land prices are not going to rise for a long time yet. Try living together without the parents for awhile if you feel you need to progress in the relationship.

Mighty_Mouse

First off, your anxiety & frustration is palpable.
Your stress levels are jumping off the screen.
Take a breath, is this a good way to tackle problems which will continue to arise in life?

We have already decided not to get married, we are not religious

Why mention it?
Is the house/baby another form of security?
Is it relationship security you seek? If so there are many alternative arrangements to the standard catholic wedding cermony.

So at the moment we are both living with his family..........We can't afford to rent and save,.....................I tel ya sometimes it feels like we r all living in a sardine can!
About two months ago I found somewhere 4 us to rent, was about to drop over deposit but his mam talked me out of it.
She is a wonderful woman and means well but she always thinks she knows best! Frustation isn't the word!

Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Are you enjoying your life today?
Do you look forward to coming home in the evening?
Your home is one of THE most important parts of your life.
If its not working change it asap.
Move and find another way.
Houses, land, mortgages, insurance, car loan, retirement, investment..................................................are important issues which should support your life not create misery.
The quicker you resolve the problems you are having in your day-to-day living the happier you will be.

But he says, "sure what's the point, I'm not really worried about that now there is loads of time to find a site"

He's 25 years old. You cannot railroad him into the life you want now.
Most men do not start to consider settling down until late 20's.

I do NOT want to be an old mum,

You're 24 years old.

I have already had two miscarraiges, shouldn't that scream alarmbells that maybe I don't have the best fertility and time is a ticking.......
without mentioning babies is because since the last miscarraige it is a topic that has now become unmentionable.................Yes it is extremely painful, I can't bear to be near other people's babies.
There is a presence missing when we are on our own together.

It's a hard feeling to describe, but just a very strong ache to reproduce.

You need to resolve this pain. Whether you realise it or not it is dominating every aspect of your thinking.
Go to the doctor immediately and resolve all fertility issues. See a consultant. Get a proper diagnoses.

There should not be unmentionable topics between partners. You need to talk openly and honestly together about everything.

You are living your life in the future.............. you will be happy if you can only just get past the next bend in the road .................if only you can get a site, if only you can get planning permission, if only you could build a 1,2,3,4,5,6 bedroom house, if only you can get a car, new car, big car, safe car,......... if only you could earn more,....... move job increase salary,......... if only you could holiday more,............. if only you could have 1,2,3,4,5 children,......... if only you could get them into good schools, colleges...........................

If you live your life stressing about the future you will live unhappily.
Make a plan to achieve what you want. Follow it & enjoy the rest of your life happily.

Slow down. Enjoy your 20's. Open up tell you partner how you feel. Let him honestly tell you he does not feel ready just yet. Maybe he will in a couple of years.

Move out, find somewhere cheap to rent & make a home for yourselves.
Consider whether the level of relationship security you have at the moment is sufficient. Stop panicking about the sites & houses. Make a realistic plan & work towards it slowly. Maybe take a look at a couple of sites as your savings accumulates.
Be patient with your bf. Don't try to transplant ideas into his head or railroad him into having to feel your stress towards life.

LadyRussell

Thanks Mighty Mouse,

Although your reply made me cry at first, (well actually all of the replies did!)
It feels like everyone is ganging up on you and ripping your ideas to shreds.

When you obbess over a plan you can't see any faults whatsoever with it!
Until they are pointed out to you.

But it's not really about a house, I just really want a baby.

That's a really important point, that life happens while you are making plans.

mood

LadyRussell wrote: »

Thanks Mighty Mouse,

Although your reply made me cry at first, (well actually all of the replies did!)
It feels like everyone is ganging up on you and ripping your ideas to shreds.

When you obbess over a plan you can't see any faults whatsoever with it!
Until they are pointed out to you.

But it's not really about a house, I just really want a baby.

That's a really important point, that life happens while you are making plans.

OP I know you much be in bits after two miscarriages. Maybe you could do with seeing a counsellor.

You need to talk to you boyfriend as well. Having a baby should be his decision as well.

I also think you two should live on your own. Have the two of you ever lived on your own? If not how can you be sure building an house and having a baby would be the right thing to do!

LadyRussell

We did live on our own for about 2 years near Dublin, but we had to move back to Galway about 6 months ago for work.

He makes ALOT less now than he was 2/3 years ago, like less than half!

It is either rent or save, not possible to do both. But I did hear recently somewhere that paying rent each month can be viewed the same as saving regularly by a bank.

kathy2

Hi

You dont want to hear this but the guy doesnt want to marry you and the BS about you not caring about marriage is rubbish.

Move on fast 10 years is way to long to spend with some one who doesnt want to marry you.

If he doesn't want to marry you he doesnt love you its actually that simple sorry

fghijkl

kathy2 wrote: »

Hi

You dont want to hear this but the guy doesnt want to marry you and the BS about you not caring about marriage is rubbish.

Move on fast 10 years is way to long to spend with some one who doesnt want to marry you.

If he doesn't want to marry you he doesnt love you its actually that simple sorry

Oh ffs did you even read her initial post properly ? :rolleyes:

We have already decided not to get married, we are not religious and feel we are perfectly content and happy that getting married couldn't possibly make us any happier than we already are.

Some people are not religious. Some people do not believe in marriage at all. A stupid piece of paper is not a validation of someones love for you. I know people who have been together for 20/30 years and have never married and they are happier than a lot of married people i know.

In fact there is a lot to be said for not getting married for one people tend to be less complacent and actually work at their relationship because they don't have that legal tie and can walk away whenever they want, they work harder to keep the relationship strong. So get down off your high horse, you sound incredibly jealous tbh.

Marriages break down every day of the week, people get divorced, in the grand scheme of things that piece of paper means nothing. If two people love each other and are prepared to work at their relationship then it will last. If they don't, then it won't last. End of, regardless of whether 2 people are married or not. Marriage is not a magical spell that will keep people together forever. Grow up.

mood

And not many people want to get married at 24/25.

It's not an issue for the OP.

Firetrap

You do need to talk to your boyfriend. You're stressed to the high heavens over all of this which isn't helping. I also think that you should have another think about renting. I know you want to buy a site etc. but in the meantime you're living in his folk's house. What sort of a life is that?

Mighty_Mouse

When you obbess over a plan you can't see any faults whatsoever with it!

Tunnel-vision.
Happens to anybody and everybody who has determination to achieve.
The problem with tunnel vision is it often fails to understand that life is not a puzzle in which the pieces can be rammed into place through force of will.

But it's not really about a house, I just really want a baby.

Ok, well do you need to build a house to have a baby?
IMO you only need a safe warm home.
You may not be in a situation to build your dream manor, but you could certainly make a home?

He makes ALOT less now than he was 2/3 years ago, like less than half!

Is it feasible to build a house on 50% wages when your so broke you have to live with his parents? Would the bank be willing to give you a residential property loan in your current situation?

But I did hear recently somewhere that paying rent each month can be viewed the same as saving regularly by a bank.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Banks are not interested in giving loans for the irish residential property market at the moment. Lending conditions are the worst in 20 years.

I think you need to arm yourself with more information on everything.
- Fertility - get a check up & proper diagnoses
- Mortgage - phone any mortgage broker any discuss your situation.

That's a really important point, that life happens while you are making plans.

Thank John Lennon!

Mighty_Mouse

If he doesn't want to marry you he doesnt love you its actually that simple sorry

Really? You truely believe that if a man states he does not wish to have a RC church marriage on religious grounds he lacks commitment?

bubbaloo

OP - I think Mighty Mouse has said it all really.
There are two issues here.
The real issue that is affecting all other thoughts is that you want a baby. The m/cs have affected you emotionally and mentally and you think the answer is to get pregnant and have a baby.
The issue of the house and the planning permission is completely separate but you think you need to have this sorted before you can consider having a baby, so you're rushing into everything in the hope of speeding up the journey to the end product (a baby).
Contrary to what someone else said, 2 m/cs is very much a sign that you may have fertility issues and you should get that looked into before you consider getting pregnant again. However, that does not mean you need to do that now. In my opinion, you need to deal with the affect of the 2 m/cs before you consider anything.........houses, pregnancy or anything else.
As MM said, slow down, enjoy your life for now and do not run head first into anything, because in my experience, the things you rush into are the very things you end up regretting.
I wish you the best of luck.

LegacyUser

bubbaloo wrote: »

Contrary to what someone else said, 2 m/cs is very much a sign that you may have fertility issues and you should get that looked into before you consider getting pregnant again.

I know someone who had 2 m/cs and has been told it's common and not to worry. However, if there is a third tests will be done. That said I would still contact the hospital to see if you can discuss it with the doctor you were under. If nothing else you will be more informed and/or you mind put at rest.

seamus

bubbaloo wrote: »

Contrary to what someone else said, 2 m/cs is very much a sign that you may have fertility issues

Actually I said it's "not necessarily" a sign of any problem. Cos it's not. Estimates say that roughly half of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, affecting one in four women during their lifetime. The vast majority of these are very early stage miscarriages, so two early-stage miscarriages do not indicates fertility problems, it could merely be bad luck.
Two later-stage miscarriages (after 3 months) would be more indicative of a problem, but since she would likely have seen a specialist before these miscarriages, she would have been referred on elsewhere if they though there was an actual problem.

In any case, the OP is still young. If she's worried, then like the poster above me says, a trip to a doctor can put her mind at rest. But most likely she will be told not to worry about it and that no tests will be done until/unless she has further difficulty getting pregnant.

LadyRussell

Jesus kathy2 that was a bit harsh!

The only reason I mentioned us not getting married at the start was to get across the point that we are in a very secure relationship.

Originally it was him who used to always plan when we would get married, but I was the one who made him sit down and think about why he feels it necessary for us to marry?

He now realises that we already are "married to each other" and don't need to prove our level of commitment to anybody.

Also, the idea of weddings is very unappealing to both of us, considering there is now a wedding version of "come dine with me", the whole thing seems to have lost all meaning.

We just feel it is more special NOT to get married, and when we are still together in 50/60 years time it will be because we both want to be.

Although I never realised that you would need a court order to make him the legal guardian of his own kids!

For me throwing on a pair of jeans and going shopping for a couch together is far more meaningful and romantic than getting dressed up and reciting vows and promises to each other!

Actually, what a hippocrate I have been!
The way I have been obsessing over the perfect dream house in the country is no different than other people obsessing over the perfect wedding day.

Haha! How enlightened I feel, thank you strangers on the internet!

It was Eddie Hobbs, on some money show a few weeks ago, who was talking about how paying rent each month can be viewed in the same light as your ability to save each month.

bubbaloo

seamus wrote: »

Actually I said it's "not necessarily" a sign of any problem. Cos it's not. Estimates say that roughly half of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, affecting one in four women during their lifetime. The vast majority of these are very early stage miscarriages, so two early-stage miscarriages do not indicates fertility problems, it could merely be bad luck.
Two later-stage miscarriages (after 3 months) would be more indicative of a problem, but since she would likely have seen a specialist before these miscarriages, she would have been referred on elsewhere if they though there was an actual problem.

In any case, the OP is still young. If she's worried, then like the poster above me says, a trip to a doctor can put her mind at rest. But most likely she will be told not to worry about it and that no tests will be done until/unless she has further difficulty getting pregnant.

No offense but I just read back over your post and you didn't say "not necessarily"! Anyway, having been through 2 m/cs myself and 7 years of hell to have my little boy I can tell you that for me, 2 m/cs was very idicative of a big issue that thakfully, could finally be resolved. I do agree that one m/c is common and not necessary indicative of an issue but if it happens twice I would think differently.
Anyway, as you say the OP is young and has plenty of time to think about how they wish to proceed in that regard.

seamus

bubbaloo wrote: »

No offense but I just read back over your post and you didn't say "not necessarily"!

You're right, I must have said it somewhere else, apologies.

bubbaloo

seamus wrote: »

You're right, I must have said it somewhere else, apologies.

No prob! Thanks for the apology!

LegacyUser

LadyRussell as someone who is planning to have children I would suggest that you read a Family Law book before going down the "romantic" route of no legal commitment.

Believe me as a woman when I say I am very, very glad I read a Family Law book prior to legally marrying as there was a very big financial difference in how I was treated when securing my children's property and maintenance and another young woman who was in court the same day as me. She ended up with just "romance" and unpaid bills.

Good luck as I think you may need it.

No legal commitment sounds all very well until your partner is dying in hospital and you're not allowed to see him or make any decisions...