Everyones Insurance to be loaded ...

listermint

So with the news of multiple and many tolls coming, there is new news of an impending smash to the finances of irelands daily motorists.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/insurance-levy-to-pay-for-euro620m-quinn-loss-2629163.html

For those in the cheap seats

Consumers will be hit with a levy on their car and house insurance to make up for a shortfall of €620m from the collapse of Quinn Insurance, the Irish Independent has learnt.

Anglo Irish Bank and US insurance giant Liberty Mutual have agreed to buy the beleaguered insurance company, but are not willing to take on all the losses on its books.

The Government will now have to make up this shortfall and will do so by imposing a levy -- expected to be between 1pc and 2pc -- on every single non-life insurance customer in the country.

That is sure to spark anger among consumers who are already reeling under a swathe of taxes and levies.

The money from the levy will go into what is known as the Insurance Compensation Fund. The fund is to make sure customers of all insurance companies get paid, even if their own particular insurer gets into financial difficulty.

This fund was used twice in the 1980s when AIB's insurance arm, ICI, got into trouble and two years earlier, in 1983, when insurer PMPA collapsed -- a move that infuriated insurance customers.

The Irish Independent has learnt the true cost of the collapse of Quinn insurance now stands at €620m. Administrators to Quinn Insurance are finalising an application asking the Government to pay for this shortfall.

Sources last night said customers could be paying for the Quinn collapse for several years because the shortfall is so large.

The application from the administrators, Grant Thornton, will be made shortly to Finance Minister Michael Noonan. He is likely grant it despite an expected public outcry.

The High Court and Central Bank will also be informed and asked for approval.

The administrators declined to comment on the figures last night.

Under legislation set up in the 1980s to deal with failing companies, the Finance Minister of the day is allowed impose a levy so the Insurance Compensation Fund has enough resources to deal with whatever insurance claims it is facing.

The minister can impose the levy on the whole insurance industry. The industry then passes it on to the customers. But the minister can only deduct 2pc of the companies' profits each year. This means it could take a few years to fully deal with the problems left behind by Quinn Insurance.

The Irish Independent has also learnt that Quinn Insurance will shortly publish its 2010 results, showing yet another year of losses.

While the administrators have stabilised the business, it is expected to report losses of €120m. Its balance sheet is in an even worse condition.

The Quinn Insurance company itself will be run now by Liberty, with Anglo taking its place in the background. It is not clear what products and prices Liberty will be offering, but due to its large scale, the US company is expected to be competitive.

Quinn Insurance's problems began in 2010 after Financial Regulator Matthew Elderfield became concerned about the financial health of the firm.

Mr Elderfield said the firm breached crucial financial ratios and its subsidiaries had entered a series of guarantees for debts held at the Quinn Group, a cements and plastics business.

Since then the regulator has been investigating these issues. However, there has so far been no update on this probe.

This time last year, former Finance Minister Brian Lenihan insisted a second levy would not affect all health insurance customers if Quinn suffered the same fate at ICI.

"There is no call on the need for a levy at this stage," he said at the time. "When the administrator has conducted a review of the company he will be in a better position to know how to proceed."

- Emmet Oliver Deputy Business Editor

Feck this, im walking

L1011

time to consider going to one car - although the proposed levy would only be about 20 quid...

Wolverine_1999

Why or how can they expect over 3 million people to make up for the complete stupidity of a few?

€620 Million should be coming out of Quinn's pockets passed on the following generations until they have paid back their own debt.

BlackWizard

Agree with the above. A % of Quinns operating profits should be used to pay off a debt restructuring deal which could be done over a period of 20 years.

But in the meantime, someone has to pay for this debt restructuring.

The idea of us(irish insurance customers) paying for it and Quinn never having to pay it back is pretty pathetic.

I wonder how much they will buy Quinn for?

Edit: Never mind, I was thinking in reverse. Ignore the previous edit

Gophur

If there are 2 million Insurance policies in the State, then the levy would amount to €310 per policy. It would then depend on what length of time this money would be expected to be generated to determine the size of the levy for each policy.


How galling to see all the demonstrations at Quinn HQ in Fermanagh, given their Govt and their taxes will not be bailing out SQ the gambler, but ours, in the ROI, will.

Cookie_Monster

Socialisation of all debt seems to be the new way
Welcome to communist Ireland

Words can't describe how angry this makes me.

stevenmu

When the group went into administration I'm pretty sure that they said the insurance part was actually very profitable, it was the rest of the group that was screwed.

Are we actually being asked to pay an insurance levy to bail out the rest of the Quinn group, or have the administrators screwed up the insurance arm as well?

Gophur

stevenmu wrote: »

...........
Are we actually being asked to pay an insurance levy to bail out the rest of the Quinn group, or have the administrators screwed up the insurance arm as well?

Sean Quinn screwed up the Insurance Company. All the talk about how profitable it was has now been exposed as just waffle.

Cookie_Monster

stevenmu wrote: »

When the group went into administration I'm pretty sure that they said the insurance part was actually very profitable, it was the rest of the group that was screwed.

It was very profitable but only because it was ignoring all the capital requirements and so forth that the industry is supposed to stick to. When you can record all the capital you are supposed to be holding as a legal reserve as profit you're laughing.

mickob16

Im really starting to hate this bloody country.The mind boggles that a company agrees to buy another but refuses to take on the debts so the solution to this is feck it, the people can pay it....whats another €620m.

So the new owners can start making profit straight away and not be liable to contribute at all:D:Dwhy wouldnt they snap it up.

Guy:Incognito

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Socialisation of all debt seems to be the new way
Welcome to communist Ireland

So new it was done twice in the 80's eh?

JimmyCrackCorn

1. 1100 For car insurance before the new tax
2. Road TAX
3. Universal Social charge
4. PAYE
5. PRSI
6. VAT on all products
7. Import Duty
8. Massive tax on fuel
9. NCT

How much Tax is enough. This is taking the piss. :mad:

Atlantic Dawn

In any other civilised country the company would be boycotted and let die off if their government tried to pull this €600 million swindle.

Guy:Incognito

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

In any other civilised country the company would be boycotted and let die off if their government tried to pull this €600 million swindle.

Not nessecarily. I dont have any figures but they employ quite a lot of people do they not? How much would statutory redundancy ( I assume they'd be entitled?) and putting every one of them on the dole cost the country?

Might be working out financially better for everyone to keep the company going.

Eric Cartman

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

In any other civilised country the company would be boycotted and let die off if their government tried to pull this €600 million swindle.

ive come up with a new slogan for ireland "it doesnt matter if your a company, scrounger or an illegal immigrant - weve got lots of free money for you , come and get it"

an absolute disgrace, if we had have just sat back and told every company in trouble to f*ck off and let them fail wed be in a far far better position

who_ru

the more i think about the future in this country the more i feel like leaving.

i am 39yrs old, don't own property, no kids.

why stay and bleed slowly more & more each year to pay for the mistakes of others who never shared any of their profits with us when they were making them?

it really is back to the future now, back to the 80s when i grew up and most people were pretty poor, their kids emigrated, statues were moving, and living in ireland was pretty awful.

Owen

I wonder if I stop paying back my business loan will the Government cover it and let me off scott free. Probably not.

ShadowHearth

So wait. What's the point selling company after all dept will be payed out? I don't get it...

So we will make the company profitable, get all depts sorted. So them some US company can just take it and have profit...


For how much is it even sold so?!


Holy ****, it's just freaking unreal... When is the beard tax coming so?!

challengemaster

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I wonder if I stop paying back my business loan will the Government cover it and let me off scott free. Probably not.

You made the small mistake in that you didn't make it big enough. If you'd taken out a few hundred million, you'd be sorted!

PCPhoto

Cartman .... valid point ... I wonder how many ministers have financial dealings in the past with the "owners" of all those companies who went to the wall ...I mean were bought up by US.

It surprises me that the government just doesn't default .... crash the country and we start fresh - cut ourselves out of the Euro and live in our own little bubble, no future bailouts required if we mess up its the people responsible who will be held accountable.

Why cant we have proper transparency and accountability !!! .... if someone in government messes up ...out they go !! will teach the rest of them to make sure they don't make a f*ck up and cost the taxpayer money.

a certain former minister for health should have been sacked six times over - but due to government spin she blames the HSE, the HSE blames her ....but she's supposed to be in charge and oversee the HSE...so should have been untimately responsible.

Change the constitution, change our judicial system, change our social welfare system.... crash the country so we can build again.... build properly learning from the mistakes and irradicating the generations of nepotism in all sectors of society....

- No more hidden expenses,
- No more hidden taxes,
- Flat rate 35% tax on everyone who holds an Irish passport and/or Irish address (and resides for more than 3months a year)
- Reduced social welfare for those with REPEAT/MULTIPLE criminal convictions
- Reduced childrens allowance for Muliple births
- Limit capacity to claim multiple benefits (ie. if you claim SW and Childrens allowance you are deducted 25% from each and percentage increases the more kids you have)
- if someone in government is caught breaking the law - and convicted - immediately forced from their job and minimum 5year ban from political life.

Randomly assess claimants of social welfare....if they fail they are cut off or face penalty of 4weeks no payments.

clear out the middle management of the HSE, employ more frontline staff in the HSE and Gardai (20,000+), ensure proper enforcement of traffic laws and other laws.

Create honesty amongst business - no hidden charges/fares ...price advertised must be the price of product.

Oh the list goes on and on....

PCPhoto

ShadowHearth wrote: »

So wait. What's the point selling company after all dept will be payed out? I don't get it...

So we will make the company profitable, get all depts sorted. So them some US company can just take it and have profit...


For how much is it even sold so?!


Holy ****, it's just freaking unreal... When is the beard tax coming so?!

my guess is shortly after they bring in the "razor tax" .... for those that do shave !! and for equality purposes tax on beards for those that don't - even some women get caught for the razor tax.

Owen

All joking aside, people aren't aware that we're already paying a 2% levy into a fund, which hasn't existed for quite some time.

I was a customer of Carole Nash's bike insurance about 10-12 years ago, when they had their insurance underwritten by a UK company called Independent Insurance who went bust. At the time, calls were made for the Government to use the fund set up for that purpose, a fund every insurance policy pays 2% into. Only problem was that the Government had done away with the fund, all the money in the fund, and kept the levy for revenue purposes. Another FF moment of wisdom.

But do you think they'll use this 2% for the Quinn money? Like hell they will. We'll just have to pony up yet more money for other's mistakes.

Stinicker

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

1. 1100 For car insurance before the new tax
2. Road TAX
3. Universal Social charge
4. PAYE
5. PRSI
6. VAT on all products
7. Import Duty
8. Massive tax on fuel
9. NCT - Now €50 a year if >10 yrs old
   
10. VRT
11. Road Tolls to private companies
12. Ripoff Trains leaving no option but to drive €72 Cork - Dublin FFS!

How much Tax is enough. This is taking the piss. :mad:

FYP!

mb1725

Wolverine_1999 wrote: »

Why or how can they expect over 3 million people to make up for the complete stupidity of a few?

€620 Million should be coming out of Quinn's pockets passed on the following generations until they have paid back their own debt.

That's how it would be for you or me!

alexmcred

As Paint Doctor said we already pay a Levy that was set up when The Insurance Corporation of Ireland collapsed (a subsidiary of AIB) so where has all the money collected since 1985 been burned?

And of course when this "levy" goes on there is a snow balls chance in hell of it coming off

Guy:Incognito

alexmcred wrote: »

As Paint Doctor said we already pay a Levy that was set up when The Insurance Corporation of Ireland collapsed (a subsidiary of AIB) so where has all the money collected since 1985 been burned?

The levy was changed in the early 90's (93 or 94 iirc) and just goes to general government coffers.

Owen

It was changed, but it was a mystery until the collapse of Independent Insurance in the late 90's. I remember the Joe Duffy show going on about it.

shamwari

So the financial raping of the Irish tax payer has plumbed new depths eh? It's sickening. :mad:

I think its about time that the persecution of every sector of Irish society ended, and the prosecution of those responsible for this mess begins.