Cost of Developing Database-Driven Websites?

Newsite

Hopefully this question is not too vague, but I'm wondering what the ballpark figure is for the development of a database driven website, for example a listings site like donedeal.ie, except with far fewer listings? Not looking for info on building a classifieds site but mine would be similar - it would contain a set of listings and profiles and users of the site would contact the people who submitted those listings.

Is 10-11k a reasonable figure for this type of site? Or maybe too much..? Bandwidth would be under 100mb a month - certainly for the first few months/to start with anyway - and would be coded in asp.net or Ajax with a SQL server.

Scotty #

You could pay anything between €500 and €50,000.

€10K, if you are starting from scratch and do not already have a recognised brand is too much to risk IMO. These type sites are very hard to be successful with. They're two a penny at the moment and competition is fierce. You would need a big marketing budget to really make a go of it.

A CMS like Joomla has several Ad/Classified extensions available and can run a pretty good site with a bit of customisation and design know how.

No doubt you've had plenty of offers by PM. Good luck!

nick10

Working last 13 years in ASP.net and PHP, my own experience is not to prefer joomla when it comes to getting sites done like donedeal, Joomla is a good open source system, I agree, but when it comes to customization and Optimization its very limited. The real problem begins when you want the site to be upgraded and customized to your requirements... I would recommend to go with customized Development rather than Joomla. Think Wise!!! Smarter Coding means Smart working sites and smart working sites with good marketing give you back Return On Investment !! Think Smart!!.... I know some one who can help with this and in a reasonably good price. PM me and i will send you the details.

Scotty #

I understand that Nick. I'm just giving an example of a cheap option.

nick10

I understand that Scotty, i know you intend to help and I do appreciate it, but giving a right direction always helps, as i mentioned earlier joomla is an excellent platform, but has its limitations, A person wishing to invest time and money during these recessions times do really need some well coded site that is SEO compatible and can beat the competition from any angle and the codes has to be well structured and flexible enabling addition of features which should meet the marketing strategies which change time to time and at low cost... and a custom developed site doesn't cost a fortune Scotty, i can get you some good contacts of couple of companies who does customized development and who has good experience in developing Classified and enterprise sites like daft,donedeal, banking sites etc and in an affordable price..

conor.hogan.2

An asp developer not recommending any free alternative, nonsense this is 100% perfect advice OP.

Your website is likely to be massive considering it is so local, so you need a custom built expensive asp site and not perfectly good free alternatives.

SEO, really? really? Build a good site, search engines will find it. Are you gonna say it needs to be 3d next?

Newsite

Thanks for the replies so far. It only occurred to me last night - the quoted cost isn't 10k - it's 8k. The 10k includes VAT..

So 8k...I guess it's probably the going rate, in and around. I wouldn't know how to code myself and I reckon you probably get what you pay for, so I'm not sure what Joomla would be like tbh...

My philosophy when it comes to web dev and design is to invest at the start and it pays dividends and repays you over time - I guess it depends on your point of view though!

Newsite

Just looking to get some estimates for sites like the below if you could please guys?

daft.ie
irishjobs.ie

(think those two, except with far lower bandwith). Any estimates?

Thanks - appreciate it.

Scotty #

Joomla was not a actually a suggestion! I was just giving an example of the minimal budget option.

Whether €8K is good value or not depends on what you are getting for your money. What kind of design, what functionality, what after sales support... and so on.

But building the site is the easy part. The hard part is getting traffic and generating revenue. What is your advertising budget?

conor.hogan.2

Why asp?

Newsite

It won't necessarily be in asp, it could be in Ajax either (just quoting someone else here, I know nowt about either of them).

Well, the guys looking after it for me have over 10 years experience, well established, have built hundreds of sites and seem to know their stuff. There will be after-sales support too and 2 weeks design work...they've built sites for some big names too.

Any thoughts on costs for the two sites I mentioned above?

stevenmu

€10k (VAT inc) sounds pretty reasonable for a site like this (and the others mentioned).

That amounts to maybe 20 man days max for design, build and testing, and I'm guessing hosting is thrown in since you've mentioned bandwidth, and of course after-sales/support. That would be cutting it fairly thin on a project like this, and I'd expect they'll be using some kind of existing existing framework.


-Make sure you get a detailed description of all of the deliverable to ensure all your required functionality will be included.
-Check if you'll get to review and approve the design before moving past the deign phase
-Since they'll probably be using either 3rd party frameworks, or reusing bits from their own internal code base, check that you'll have rights to the source code. If not you'll be tied to them for future upgrades, fixes etc.
-Check exactly what is and isn't covered by after-sales. e.g. you might expect that if you're not happy with some design aspect or how some feature works it'll be covered, but it probably won't be. It'll probably just cover bug fixes. (but sometimes a limited amount of development time may be included to change design or add new features etc)
-Don't forget you'll have to handle the day to day administration, check that they've allowed for that and will also either provide some training or documentation.

Feckfox

stevenmu wrote: »

€10k (VAT inc) sounds pretty reasonable for a site like this (and the others mentioned).

That amounts to maybe 20 man days max for design, build and testing, and I'm guessing hosting is thrown in since you've mentioned bandwidth, and of course after-sales/support. That would be cutting it fairly thin on a project like this, and I'd expect they'll be using some kind of existing existing framework.


-Make sure you get a detailed description of all of the deliverable to ensure all your required functionality will be included.
-Check if you'll get to review and approve the design before moving past the deign phase
-Since they'll probably be using either 3rd party frameworks, or reusing bits from their own internal code base, check that you'll have rights to the source code. If not you'll be tied to them for future upgrades, fixes etc.
-Check exactly what is and isn't covered by after-sales. e.g. you might expect that if you're not happy with some design aspect or how some feature works it'll be covered, but it probably won't be. It'll probably just cover bug fixes. (but sometimes a limited amount of development time may be included to change design or add new features etc)
-Don't forget you'll have to handle the day to day administration, check that they've allowed for that and will also either provide some training or documentation.

I agree with this if you are an existing business putting out a new product but if this is a standalone business you're starting by yourself I would try do it as cheap as possible.

jmcc

Scotty # wrote: »

Joomla was not a actually a suggestion! I was just giving an example of the minimal budget option.

While Joomla is quite a usable CMS, a database-driven website is a completely different animal. In a well designed db driven site, each SQL query has to be designed to minimise the effect on the db as the db is going to have many simultaneous users.

Whether €8K is good value or not depends on what you are getting for your money.

Agreed. Most web developers have no idea about how to properly design a scalable db backed website.

But building the site is the easy part.

For small sites perhaps. But doing it right the first time, especially on a db backed site is a bit more difficult.

Regards...jmcc

nick10

stevenmu wrote: »

€10k (VAT inc) sounds pretty reasonable for a site like this (and the others mentioned).

That amounts to maybe 20 man days max for design, build and testing, and I'm guessing hosting is thrown in since you've mentioned bandwidth, and of course after-sales/support. That would be cutting it fairly thin on a project like this, and I'd expect they'll be using some kind of existing existing framework.


-Make sure you get a detailed description of all of the deliverable to ensure all your required functionality will be included.
-Check if you'll get to review and approve the design before moving past the deign phase
-Since they'll probably be using either 3rd party frameworks, or reusing bits from their own internal code base, check that you'll have rights to the source code. If not you'll be tied to them for future upgrades, fixes etc.
-Check exactly what is and isn't covered by after-sales. e.g. you might expect that if you're not happy with some design aspect or how some feature works it'll be covered, but it probably won't be. It'll probably just cover bug fixes. (but sometimes a limited amount of development time may be included to change design or add new features etc)
-Don't forget you'll have to handle the day to day administration, check that they've allowed for that and will also either provide some training or documentation.

What stevenmu and Feckfox said is Right!! you will need a good professional advice on this and a good research before you invest, nowaydays its hard to find good companies who design sites based on customers requirements, doing sites in aligning with current market competetion and ofcoures considering customer's budget etc and there arent many companies out there who does this ...

Dymo

Just make sure you know what your doing, its easy to pump money in to the developing of the website getting people there is the hard part and then you have to convince them that your product/offering is the best available, think about the competition who have hundreds of thousands invested.

I'm not saying don't do it, just to get someone you know and trust to advise you. 10K is a lot of money for a website that could be as popular a €100 website. Commercial website business's take just as much work as a business on a high street.

Newsite

Dymo wrote: »

Just make sure you know what your doing, its easy to pump money in to the developing of the website getting people there is the hard part and then you have to convince them that your product/offering is the best available, think about the competition who have hundreds of thousands invested.

I'm not saying don't do it, just to get someone you know and trust to advise you. 10K is a lot of money for a website that could be as popular a €100 website. Commercial website business's take just as much work as a business on a high street.

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice and to Dymo as well - wise words. To anyone who PM'd me (there weren't actually many) - I already have a development team, but thanks for the messages. I was really just looking to gauge people's opinions on the price.

In response to your post Dymo, I don't want to reveal what I'm working on on such a public forum, but I will say that it isn't a product - it is a service that doesn't have any competition at present and I've seen a gap/niche waiting to be filled. The offering exists in other countries but not in Ireland yet. I probably could get the site done cheaper elsewhere, but I would rather invest in a company who have a strong track record and lots of experience as the website is fundamental to the whole model.

I have experience in online marketing and that is how the venture will get 'out there' - my main thing will be getting the numbers engaging with the site but I feel this should be ok - not least as it's risk free and 'everything to gain' for anyone availing of the service.

Scotty #

Newsite wrote: »

I have experience in online marketing and that is how the venture will get 'out there' - my main thing will be getting the numbers engaging with the site but I feel this should be ok - not least as it's risk free and 'everything to gain' for anyone availing of the service.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on!

Liam Byrne

Newsite wrote: »

It won't necessarily be in asp, it could be in Ajax either (just quoting someone else here, I know nowt about either of them).

ASP and Ajax are not comparable, so if you're unable to distinguish between those make sure you trust your developer 100% and/or get additional advice.

As for the price, it all depends on the features and functionality.....a "database driven" site could easily be done for 2.5k, but it depends on what your requirements are and how easy it is to update.

Newsite

Liam Byrne wrote: »

ASP and Ajax are not comparable, so if you're unable to distinguish between those make sure you trust your developer 100% and/or get additional advice.

As for the price, it all depends on the features and functionality.....a "database driven" site could easily be done for 2.5k, but it depends on what your requirements are and how easy it is to update.

Cheers Liam....to take a random example of a database-driven website - let's say irishjobs.ie - how much would a website like that cost to build, roughly? (Starting off you'd be talking about far less bandwidth than a site as big as that one, obviously).

Also - edit - sorry it's asp.net not asp.

Scotty #

Newsite wrote: »

let's say irishjobs.ie

Websites don't cost anything to build. There are no raw materials needed and there is nothing tangible. Therefore, the cost depends on what value the developer places on their time and expertise. One web developer may have already created something similar and already have a system more or less ready to go. Anothe might be starting from scratch and charge more. Some might be really busy and charge more for new work and another could have no work on and really need the work so charging less. There are budget options and there are over the top merchants.

There are people who would charge you less than €2000 for irishjobs.ie and there are people who would charge €20,000+. The finished product could be very similar. But you're not paying for the site. You're paying for the developers time.

So what you are really asking is how much would YOU charge for irishjobs.ie and everyone will give you a completely different answer, but most won't answer at all on a public forum.

jmcc

Scotty # wrote: »

Websites don't cost anything to build. There are no raw materials needed and there is nothing tangible.

With all due respect, this is the kind of argument I see when people are talking about large scale database backed websites from a web developer point of view. A large scale, or indeed scalable, database backed website needs proper planning and that means properly specifying the hardware. Such issues as available memory and hardware redundancy become more important as the size of the site increases and the traffic on the site increases. With small (<1G databases) these issues generally don't appear unless the developer has done a really bad job of optimising queries and designing the web pages. It means being able to select the hardware options on dedicated or custom hosting that will make the site work well. And it also means having hot spares and development versions of the site offline.

Designing a good, scalable and easily updated database backed website is a skill that is, to be diplomatic about it, beyond that of most web developers working with small web databases because the database is the website.

There are people who would charge you less than €2000 for irishjobs.ie and there are people who would charge €20,000+. The finished product could be very similar. But you're not paying for the site. You're paying for the developers time.

There are people who think that they can do sites like irishjobs.ie for 2K Euro. What most of them do not understand is that database backed websites are very much like icebergs in that only a small part of the site is visible. And many web developers assume that this small visible section is the only part they will be doing for that 2K Euro.

So what you are really asking is how much would YOU charge for irishjobs.ie and everyone will give you a completely different answer, but most won't answer at all on a public forum.

Just on Google, Irishjobs.ie has 1.3 million pages in the index. With actively updated content, the search engine spiders are going to be spending some time on the site and this would have to be included in the initial design specification because the search engine spiders could account for hundreds of thousands of pages a day.

But if it is only a small website, with no scalability, then the 2K Euro might be enough to get some web developers to build a solution using off-the-shelf Open Source software.

Regards...jmcc

Liam Byrne

Newsite wrote: »

Cheers Liam....to take a random example of a database-driven website - let's say irishjobs.ie - how much would a website like that cost to build, roughly? (Starting off you'd be talking about far less bandwidth than a site as big as that one, obviously).

Also - edit - sorry it's asp.net not asp.

You'd need to know what the backend does as well as the front-end.

e.g a database site with a comprehensive edit facility would be far more time-consuming to build than one which did a CSV import or was administered using phpmyadmin

So you have 4 levels
1) what a user sees
2) what a logged-in member sees
3) what a premium member sees
4) what an admin sees

Add in the multitude of options available to develop "cool" interface options (e.g posting updates via AJAX, etc) and you're basically asking what price is a two-litre car.

A premium one with all bells & whistles will cost far more than a basic entry-level.

So it's not about comparing, it's about what YOU want and need.