Bisexuality

Paddy The Pirate

Hi Everyone, I haven't posted here much before. Is is just me or is there a general belief in most people that bisexuality doesnt exist? I seem to be told by a lot of people that bisxuality is my 'choice' and that I'm only confused. Should I feel wronged by this or am I just being selfish? I believe in my sexuality and I know for certain that I'm not gay or straight.
Anyway, to close, is it just me who has seen this sort of thing, or who is bothered by it?
Ronan

Links234

Yes, I think you should feel wronged by people being judgmental about your sexual orientation. No, you certainly are not being selfish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
It's very presumptuous of people to assume that the way they experience their sexuality is the same as how every else experiences it.

Paddy The Pirate

I feel that many people are waiting for me to tell them i'm gay, many believe that bisexuality is just a ''stepping stone'' of sorts to coming out as gay, not all people, but many around me anyway

diddlybit

No, you're absolutely right. A lot of people just see it as a tranisition to true queerdom, "Bi now, Gay later." Some others I find, dismiss it because a) they cannot understand it or b) or threatened by it. People assume your sexuality (when in a partnership) is derived from the gender of the person that you are with. When I dated men, some people accused me of being a "tourist", when I date women, people think that I just won't commit to lesbianism.

It's really, really annoying especially when this opinions come from someone in the gay community. But then, even my sis, who I would consider to be enlightened, now refers to me as a lesbian even though I could be blue in the face telling her otherwsie. It comes across to me as extremely arrogant when people assume that they can better describe your sexuality than you can.

Aishae

bisexuality is very real and i suspect if more people would admit to their leanings towards the same sex - as well as the opposite - we'd see more of it around too.

i hate that theory that bisexuals are just confused people - cockteases for example. im sure there are a few people who come out as bi before theyre sure themselves - but thats no different than someone coming out as gay before theyre sure or someone assuming theyre straight (and who in time realise theyre gay)

the world has gotten past the whole 'everything is about adam and eve, working 9-5 and making babies' thing - but some are slow to catch up.

Morag

Yes there are people who believe that bisexuality it a myth or a lie we tell ourselves.
There are people out there who are unaccepting of bisexuality and are frankly biphobic.
I don't know if it comes from jealousy, as there is a chance we may settled down in a relationship with a member of the opposite gender and then 'pass' as being hetro.

Bisexual erasure is something which pushes us to be 'gay' or 'straight' to pick sides
and it's unfair in many ways.

Your not alone a lot of people experience this, it was one of the main topics of discussion when Robyn Ochs ran a workshop for the Bi Irish group in Outhouse.

Aishae

i identify as lesbian myself and thats 99 percent a true reflection of it. but its not completely impossible id settle on a guy - just really really unlikely. so in a sense i guess i should consider myself bi but lesbian reflects who i am better.
as sharrow said theres pressure to decide gay / straight. without an inbetween. and id say thats one of the reasons many people who probably are more bi than straight / gay chose one or the other.
doesnt make it right though. people should be free to say they are whatever sexuality they like - bi included. cos as has been said: we know ourselves better than anyone else

Aard

Who cares what they think! They're hardly gonna dictate who you are and aren't attracted to.

KnifeWRENCH

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

Is is just me or is there a general belief in most people that bisexuality doesnt exist?

"Yes. But only in the case of men. No such thing as a bisexual man; they're all gay and too scared to come out as gay.
Conversely, every woman in the world is bisexual. Shur that's why they're always scoring each other on nights out........"

^ The above was the general gist of the answer to the following question: "What stereotypes of bisexuality exist?", that was asked at a bisexuality talk that UCC LGBT soc did a few months ago. And, unfortunately from my experience, that genuinely is what a lot of people believe about bisexuality. It's the sexual orientation for cowardly gay guys and slutty women. :rolleyes:

People don't believe me when I tell them I'm bi. Admittedly, I do generally prefer guys to girls but I wouldn't identify as gay, just as I wouldn't identify as straight. I don't even particularly like identifying myself as bi; identifying yourself as a label annoys me. I don't know why everyone has to just put themselves in a box. Some people identify as bi before later coming out as gay, and I find it sad that these people felt like they had to pick an identity when they really weren't sure of themselves. And a lot of people out there are unsure, yet society dictates we're either gay, straight or 50:50 and thus we're all expected to neatly place ourselves in one of those three boxes. Similar story with gender; society will tell you you're either male or female, and God help you if you have gender dysphoria, because having two nice convenient boxes is easier than considering other possibilities.

Eugh, labels. Fúck 'em.

So after that rant, to sum up: yes, the perception that bisexuality is either made up or just for easy, slutty people is definitely there. Even among the LGBT community itself. I wouldn't get worked up about it, OP. Just ignore the asshats who say this stuff and move on. Don't feel like you have to justify your sexual orientation to anyone.

Asry

There really is a lot of erasure going on regarding this. It's like the 'straight community' (whatever that is) doesn't want to recognise this unless it's a few famous teenagers trying to be cool. And the 'gay community' - speaking from my own experience here, the only discrimination I've ever encountered was at their hands (apart from my mom's :rolleyes:).

I've been called things in my time on the 'gay scene' that don't bear repeating [I should note that my favourite was 'day walker'].

I'm tired of telling both straight and gay people that I've been like this always and always will be. Bring me back to Ancient Greece! :cool:

baby and crumble

Asry wrote:

I've been called things in my time on the 'gay scene' that don't bear repeating [I should note that my favourite was 'day walker'].

All I could think of when I read that was like it's a really bad insult from a vampire!

You know, I would identify primarily as a lesbian. But having said that there are a few male celebs I wouldn't kick out of bed. I think they way I think about it in my head is that I could understand a physical attraction to a man, but I couldn't picture myself in a relationship with one. So in some ways I guess I'm bisexual, but I know that any lasting relationships I have will be with women.

My GF is bi, and I struggled with that for a long time when we were younger. I felt so threatened by her being attracted to men. Part of it was my own arrogance (I can be extremely arrogant, it's a failing...) and thinking "well she wouldn't leave me for a woman, obviously, but I can't give her what a man can..." so I used to freak out about it, and honestly I was kinda mean about it too. It threatened who I was, and who we were as a couple, so I reacted against it.

But now, as I've grown up and gotten a bit older, I see that life isn't black and white. What you know as a truth one day can be shattered into pieces the next. This is who she is, and she describes herself as gay, but that encompasses bi for her. And it really aggravates her when people only view her as a lesbian because she's with me. it's like people only looking at the colour of your skin, or your religion or whatever else. It's not the full picture.

I do think that some of the more hardcore lesbians I've met are dismissive of men, and therefore of people who are attracted to them. Just my opinion though...

Morag

You might find this helpful

Getting Bi in a gay/straight world.

It was put together by BiPhoria which is a group for bisexual people around Manchester and those who think they may be bi.
http://www.biphoria.org.uk/

"Getting Bi in a Gay/Straight World". It is a pocket guide to coming out and staying out as bi.

Asry

All I could think of when I read that was like it's a really bad insult from a vampire!

Ha! I know! It's fairly awesomely tacky. And I do love tacky.
:cool:

Asry

also, the whole 'pansexual' and 'omnisexual' thing make bisexual people sound like rampant dinosaurs! Rampaging through the wilderness, eating everything they can, NOT JUST plants or animals but BOTH :eek::eek::eek:

Paddy The Pirate

Sharrow wrote: »

You might find this helpful

Getting Bi in a gay/straight world.

It was put together by BiPhoria which is a group for bisexual people around Manchester and those who think they may be bi.
http://www.biphoria.org.uk/

"Getting Bi in a Gay/Straight World". It is a pocket guide to coming out and staying out as bi.

Thanks for that, will read through it now, thanks everyone !

Asry

I'm reading it now, Paddy; it's pretty cool I wish I lived in Manchester!

stephen_n

The idea of sexuality being fixed is far less likely than it being fluid perhaps the people who feel the need to question or define your sexuality for you maybe do so because they are not as secure in there monosexuality as they like to pretend! I'm attracted to people there particular anatomy is of no consequence to that! Bisexuality exists in nearly all animals on the planet so why would it not exist in humans?

Goodshape

I agree with stephen_n... would honestly find it harder to believe that there is such a thing as 100% gay or straight. Nobody can be that rigid, surely. I doubt a clean-cut 50/50 is that common either.

Don't want to drag things into a nature / nurture debate but regardless of what sets you out initially, defining oneself in absolute terms isn't "natural". That part is society pressures and also just convenience; if you're 70/30 then sure, identify as the 70%. But don't pretend the sight of the other sex is going to result in an automatic gag reflex.

Obviously enough there's a lot of the "straight community" who just aren't comfortable with anyone questioning their sexuality. I'd wager a lot of gay people who spend their time on "the scene" or surrounded by other gay people are similar in that they let their sexuality define them to the point where a reminder that things aren't so black and white is an uncomfortable thing.

I hate the thought of defining people by their sexuality, and despise the idea that anyone needs to "pick sides" like it's a ****ing football game. Can't really get my head around a mentality like that.

babyface11

Ive been bi since i was 14 its nothing to be ashamed about when i told my mum she was really helpful!

AndrewJD

stephen_n wrote: »

The idea of sexuality being fixed is far less likely than it being fluid

Is it? Evolutionarily it makes no sense. There's no advantage for mammals to be attracted to more than one sex. In fairness, there's no advantage to them being attracted to the same sex, but you can understand how much easier it is to follow the wrong gender attraction pathway than to shunt your way down the middle. I agree with your main point, I just don't agree with your leading statement

Goodshape wrote: »

I agree with stephen_n... would honestly find it harder to believe that there is such a thing as 100% gay or straight. Nobody can be that rigid, surely. I doubt a clean-cut 50/50 is that common either.

Don't want to drag things into a nature / nurture debate but regardless of what sets you out initially, defining oneself in absolute terms isn't "natural". That part is society pressures and also just convenience; if you're 70/30 then sure, identify as the 70%. But don't pretend the sight of the other sex is going to result in an automatic gag reflex.

Obviously enough there's a lot of the "straight community" who just aren't comfortable with anyone questioning their sexuality. I'd wager a lot of gay people who spend their time on "the scene" or surrounded by other gay people are similar in that they let their sexuality define them to the point where a reminder that things aren't so black and white is an uncomfortable thing.

I hate the thought of defining people by their sexuality, and despise the idea that anyone needs to "pick sides" like it's a ****ing football game. Can't really get my head around a mentality like that.

I agree and disagree. I agree that for a good few people, having to select a label is against how they feel their sexually represents itself to them. But I don't feel that. It's easy for most straight people to say they're straight. It's easy for most gay people to say they're gay. If you fit into both categories, you are by definition attracted to both sexes [or all sexes] and are bisexual [or pan, if you're pedantic about semantics]. As a society we use labels all the time because they're convenient. Knowing my friend is straight allows me to talk about guys, or if she has a boyfriend, or knowing she'd rather go to Alchemy rather than The George. Same for any other label. It's all about context. Coming from my (probably biased) point of view, I can't see why if you are attracted to both sexes in some meaningful way (I'm sort of attracted to girls, but I know it's never going to happen that way) you can't say you're bisexual. I just don't buy into this labels are evil mentality.

Aishae

Aishae wrote: »

i identify as lesbian myself and thats 99 percent a true reflection of it. but its not completely impossible id settle on a guy - just really really unlikely

This is also true at the opposite end of the scale. I am in a relationship myself with two girls... a truple rather than a couple I guess. Before they met each other neither was into girls at all, just us guys. They still arent and have had no attraction to other girls before or since, just each other.

So just like you but at the opposite end of the scale they are 99% straight but clearly its also not impossible for straight people to find someone of their own sex that just lights up all the important lights.

baby and crumble

Reading people talking about labels... it's funny, because so many of the gay community absolutely thrive on labels. But the labels that suit.

Maybe I can illustrate my point better. Take, for example, Glee. I don't know how many people watch it, but there was an episode this season where a guy who has been gay from the start, and very confident about it, kissed a girl drunkenly at a party. He then starts to question whether he might be bi or not, because he quite enjoyed it. At the end of the episode he kisses her again, while sober and says "Wow. Yeah. I'm definitely gay! Thanks for clearing that up!"

Now, the community was in uproar in the US about how that trivialized bisexuality, or how could a person possibly know he was gay not bi after just 2 kisses? Or conversely how could 1 drunken kiss make you question your gay identity. But hey, let's be honest here- how many of us remember feeling, at the moment of our first gay kiss "holy crap this makes total sense now" ?!!!??

it's like in the gay community people can understand fluidity and experimenting and people being with both genders, so long as it's moving towards the gay end of the spectrum. So someone going down the percieved straight>experimentation>bisexual>gay route. But any deviation in that is seen as weird. So you go from straight>gay>bi? No, wrong answer. Go from Straight>bi>straight? Wrong answer.

It's frustrating, and I'm not even somebody that kind of thing happens to!!!

Lia_lia

About the labels thing...

People often ask me whether I'm gay/straight/bi...I just can't answer it! I'm 22 now and have been with girls and fellas since I was 15 but never really gave myself a label. It's not that I am uncomfortable with it or anything, I just never really found it important. Any friends that I have who are lesbians tend to stick in a little group together and they seem find the idea of someone being bisexual somewhat strange, that's why I tend to stay away from them. But maybe I've just had bad experiences.

stephen_n

AndrewJD wrote: »

Is it? Evolutionarily it makes no sense. There's no advantage for mammals to be attracted to more than one sex. In fairness, there's no advantage to them being attracted to the same sex, but you can understand how much easier it is to follow the wrong gender attraction pathway than to shunt your way down the middle. I agree with your main point, I just don't agree with your leading statement

I think your applying far to much logic to evolution, the basic drive for sex especially in males does not recognise the sex of the object, it is just a need to be met. Take for instance the most ardently heterosexual males who become contingently homosexual when the need prevails i.e. incarceration etc etc... Evolution relies on pretty blunt instruments when it comes to procreation, it's very much a case of hit as much as possible and hope for the best. This is why a dog will hump your leg, a male dog a teddy bear and hopefully the odd bitch along the way to propagating the species. Relationships and the choices we make towards them are a far more complicated but are not an agent of evolution or necessary for it's purposes. So on one hand we have evolution and pure sexual attraction which seems to most defenitely be fluid given the prison example and also countless examples that exist throughout other mammals v's the social constructs of monogomy and a fixed attraction which actually serve no purpose in evolution whatsoever.

AndrewJD

stephen_n wrote: »

I think your applying far to much logic to evolution, the basic drive for sex especially in males does not recognise the sex of the object, it is just a need to be met. Take for instance the most ardently heterosexual males who become contingently homosexual when the need prevails i.e. incarceration etc etc... Evolution relies on pretty blunt instruments when it comes to procreation, it's very much a case of hit as much as possible and hope for the best. This is why a dog will hump your leg, a male dog a teddy bear and hopefully the odd bitch along the way to propagating the species. Relationships and the choices we make towards them are a far more complicated but are not an agent of evolution or necessary for it's purposes. So on one hand we have evolution and pure sexual attraction which seems to most defenitely be fluid given the prison example and also countless examples that exist throughout other mammals v's the social constructs of monogomy and a fixed attraction which actually serve no purpose in evolution whatsoever.

I seem to recall reading (and in fairness I can't remember where to be able to quote it) that the humping mechanism was as much a social dominance technique as it was sexual. It was applied to men prison as well, because realistically there are millions of men who don't have sex for years and years without resorting to homosexuality. You don't see priests running around humping table legs. In a testosterone filled prison scenario however, your social position is everything, and so the majority of men will use the "dominant" position in anal sex for willing or unwilling partners as a primitive method of social dominance over that person.

Putting that aside, you're premise is correct. My point however applied here is that animals having sex with teddy bears are still inherently heterosexual. They have no specific desire for the same sex, they still want the opposite, but primal instinct is demanding seed to be dispersed. A much smaller fraction of animals would show the sort of attraction that really applies here. Like the penguins that raised a baby together a year or so ago. Penguins are one of the few species that demonstrate a sort of monogamy (I believe it breaks down a bit after the chick is born). Raging hormones probably shouldn't be confused with homosexuality. There still is no real premise to say that sexual fluidity is any more likely than sexual stability.

ColmDawson

I, too, have had people (generally gay men) tell me rather patronisingly that I am merely on my way to being entirely homosexual. It's not much more than an annoyance to me, but I imagine it could be quite hurtful to some.