Should manufacters be encouraged to upgrade

opinion guy

So I was thinking today of how technology in cars is moving on - particularly with regard to efficiency and emissions. But I can't help but feel its mostly just marketing to shift new motors.

And well scrapping old motors to shift new ones is very environmentally unfriendly.

It occurs to me - should our governments not be encouraging the car manufacturers to adapt a new model of business - one where upgrades to cars are made an attractive prospect to the manufacturers. The governments could do this by tax incentives etc etc for upgrades to cars rather than replacements.

For example - Stop Start technology is creeping into many cars now. Wouldn't it be nice if you could retrofit your 2006 model with this tech ?
Laser spark plugs when they are available could be retrofitted to older cars.
Mr Fusion could be stuck in your 1980 DeLorean when the food blender/ nuclear fusion tech matures.

Wouldn't this be a more efficient way of bringing new tech to the market ?
Obviously manufacturers would charge for this. It could be a new income stream for them. You could but the "efficiency upgrade pack" for your 2007 Golf etc. Check our car into VW garage. They install the new tech - VW supply the kit - garage and manufacturer earn some cash, mother nature has less Co2 to absorb.

Obviously this would have huge implications for car design - but since car design is already becoming modular/plug and play - at least behind the scenes -example the same chasis being used for cars across Audi/VW/Skoda/Seat etc this would almost be an easy step for manufactuers to take.


Anyhow - just a thought. What do people think ? Would you pay 500EUR, 1000EUR to get laser sparks plugs in when they are available ?

Big Nasty

People wouldn't bother

Manufacturers want to sell new cars not keep old cars on the road

Owen

The problem is that Stop Start for one, is actually only a tiny, teeny little part of fuel efficiency in the cars that use it. In BMW's world, it only contributes .7% to fuel efficiency (Or was it 7, but .7 rings in my head from the presentations I'd to sit through) - the other stuff was revised aerodynamics - undertrays, etc - low rolling resistance tires, lighter weight body panels and on and on. Stuff that you can't really retrofit.

Manufacturers should be able to upgrade the engines themselves. ECU's should be reprogrammable with plenty of extra memory for when models get revised. The various guises of the 320d & 520d engines had only minor changes between models - larger injectors, remaps. That's the sort of stuff they should offer as upgrades rather than people blowing 15k to go from an 11D to a 12D. Having said that, the type of people who are into plate vanity, would probably change even if the car was the same ...

opinion guy

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The problem is that Stop Start for one, is actually only a tiny, teeny little part of fuel efficiency in the cars that use it. In BMW's world, it only contributes .7% to fuel efficiency (Or was it 7, but .7 rings in my head from the presentations I'd to sit through) - the other stuff was revised aerodynamics - undertrays, etc - low rolling resistance tires, lighter weight body panels and on and on. Stuff that you can't really retrofit.

Manufacturers should be able to upgrade the engines themselves. ECU's should be reprogrammable with plenty of extra memory for when models get revised. The various guises of the 320d & 520d engines had only minor changes between models - larger injectors, remaps. That's the sort of stuff they should offer as upgrades rather than people blowing 15k to go from an 11D to a 12D. Having said that, the type of people who are into plate vanity, would probably change even if the car was the same ...

Oh yeah I wasn't picking stop start as being a great thing - I know it doesn't make much difference btu was just picking an example.

Saw an add for some new car I can't remember that can block off its own front grill for efficiency when it doesn't need the air intake. That sounds like a great idea.

Seems like there are lots of little ideas that will all start to add up. Wouldbe nice to be able to add them to my beast at some point

lomb

There is NO market for used cars. Example bought a golf new for 25500 cash in mid 2006, today lucky to get 7 grand thats 18500 gone in 5 years when if the life of a car is 10 years it should be worth 12750.

Everyone wants new cars, I also dont think the above car is any use. Although theres only 60k miles on it it feels worn out unlike my 03 MKIV with moe miles which feels almost as tight as new. Today manufactures want to build cars that fall apart or are unusable economically every 7 or 8 years I think.

Upgrades are pointless, most people wont even pay out for proper maintainance here. Rather just a new car when things start breaking.

EPM

Unless you can change the number plate too Irish buyers won't be interested. Manufacturers wouldn't want the hassle of developing these features for a retrofit or the warranty implications. Also, a lot of people barely service their motors so I doubt they'd look into upgrades.

opinion guy

lomb wrote: »

There is NO market for used cars. Example bought a golf new for 25500 cash in mid 2006, today lucky to get 7 grand thats 18500 gone in 5 years when if the life of a car is 10 years it should be worth 12750.

Everyone wants new cars, I also dont think the above car is any use. Although theres only 60k miles on it it feels worn out unlike my 03 MKIV with moe miles which feels almost as tight as new. Today manufactures want to build cars that fall apart or are unusable economically every 7 or 8 years I think.

Upgrades are pointless, most people wont even pay out for proper maintainance here. Rather just a new car when things start breaking.

Fair points.
But thats a quirk of the current marketplace. It likely won't be like that forever.

maidhc

lomb wrote: »

Today manufactures want to build cars that fall apart or are unusable economically every 7 or 8 years I think.

New cars are so good compared to old cars. A modern car can do 200k with routine maintenance, and 3-400k is easily achievable if people actually keep the car long enough. It isn't long ago when a complete engine rebuild would be needed every 60k.

You can upgrade cars if you want. I have seen cossie engines in MkII escorts, and if you go to tbe trouble any engine can be fitted to any car. Doesnt make financial sense though given the economies of scale in new car manufacture.

dr.fuzzenstein

Porsche tried it in the early 70's with their "Langzeitauto", a car that was designed to last a long time (as the name suggests) and that engine, suspension and other components where modular and easily removable.
All the panels where bolt on and could be replaced with a spanner, anything else was also easily removable, replacable and upgradeable.
So you would replace bits of the car, but keep the basic shell.
New components would be upgraded and uprated as time goes by, so you would always be bang up to date.
This would save untold millions of tons of steel a year, along with coal and electricity in manufacturing body shells.
The greens should have loved it, except they didn't exist back then and now (at least the Irish Greens) would rather everyone buys a car, drives it for 10 years, has it crushed and buys a new one.
It never made it past the concept stage, because politicians in Germany thought it would spell disaster for the coal and steel industry, potential customers hated it, because newer and shinier is always better (i.e. an 11 reg Micra is ALWAYS better than an 05 reg BMW), as mentioned above the Green lobby nowadays would hate it because they hate cars in general and old cars in particular and besides, when has anything that was practical, economical, workable, genuinely beneficial to the environment and logically though out ever worked?
People want new and shiny, it never stood a chance.

opinion guy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

"Langzeitauto"

Lol - gotta love German marketing.
Makes me thing of the slogan on Rittersport bars - "Quadratisch. Praktisch. Gut." ("Square. Practical. Good.")

an 11 reg Micra is ALWAYS better than an 05 reg BMW

lol

dr.fuzzenstein

opinion guy wrote: »

Lol - gotta love German marketing.
Makes me thing of the slogan on Rittersport bars - "Quadratisch. Praktisch. Gut." ("Square. Practical. Good.")

Wow, haven't heard that in a long time.

Daegerty

You could just do a DIY conversion to electric and be done with it

Voodoomelon

Just as an example, BMW already offers retrofit kits for lots of models. Features like PDC, reversing cameras, fridges, Individual items etc. It costs an absolute packet though.

Mycroft H

Reminds me of a old VW advert






For those that cant read the bottom

How to make a '54 look like a '64


Paint it.

See it looks like next year's model. And next year's model looks like last year's model. And so it goes.

VWs always look the same because we change the car to make it word better, never to make it look different.

So the people who bought '63 VWs aren't nervous about what '64s will look like. And neither are we.

We've made over 5 million Volkswagons and we're still making changes.

Not enough to make you run out and buy a new one every year.

But enough to notice the differences when you do. 114 changes for '64 alone.

In the meantime, no matter what year VW you own, you can always get parts easily, many of them are interchangeable from one year to the next.


So if you like, you can keep your old VW running forever. Just spray it every few years. Old paint rides again.

Funny how times have changed.........

opinion guy

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Just as an example, BMW already offers retrofit kits for lots of models. Features like PDC, reversing cameras, fridges, Individual items etc. It costs an absolute packet though.

Didn't know that!

unkel

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Porsche tried it in the early 70's with their "Langzeitauto", a car that was designed to last a long time (as the name suggests) and that engine, suspension and other components where modular and easily removable.
All the panels where bolt on and could be replaced with a spanner, anything else was also easily removable, replacable and upgradeable.
So you would replace bits of the car, but keep the basic shell.
New components would be upgraded and uprated as time goes by, so you would always be bang up to date.

New to me, interesting concept!

A quick google shows me that the project was launched in '73 and that a long term car should last at least 20 years and 200k miles. Have you any further links worth reading?

opinion guy

unkel wrote: »

New to me, interesting concept!

A quick google shows me that the project was launched in '73 and that a long term car should last at least 20 years and 200k miles. Have you any further links worth reading?

I wonder how long they actually lasted!

challengemaster

Then there's also the insurance twats to deal with. You can imagine the field day they'd have with retrofitting any serious amount of tech?

Premium++;

dr.fuzzenstein

unkel wrote: »

New to me, interesting concept!

A quick google shows me that the project was launched in '73 and that a long term car should last at least 20 years and 200k miles. Have you any further links worth reading?

I found one or two articles, all in German, I only remembered this because I have a "Science of the Future!" type book from 1978 which contained that article.
Well, an article on the future of the car, the conclusion was that saving materials, recycling, economy, safety and efficiency would be important.
The book is actually pretty much on the money in some respects, with just the occasional howler (Millions or people living in space stations by 2008 anyone?) and here's some of the info:
The project is indeed from 1973, the car was supposed to last 20 years/300000 km which at the time represented a 30% saving in energy and 65% in material.
There seemed to have been some worries also that you would buy your Langzeitauto, only for Porsche to say "nah, fcuk that, can't be arsed" and not continue to offer upgrades and spares in the future.
That is a fear I can understand, if you where dependent on the good will of a car manufacturer to keep you in parts for 20 years you need some good faith in them alright!;)

Eric Cartman

a lovely idea , there is technically 1 car like this - the landrover defender, buy the parts and make an 89 look like a 2006 one ,

wouldnt work in ireland though, nobody even puts any extras on cars here, letalone upgrades