NTA approves Innovative New Approach to Dublin Bus Fare Structure.......NOT !

AlekSmart

Just when we might have been forgiven for seeing the NTA as a breath of fresh air in Public Transport regulatory terms,along comes this.........

http://nationaltransport.ie/downloads/Dublin_Bus_Fares_Announcement.pdf

"Ah sure lad's with the oul petteril going up,they won't mind payin a few bob more for them pre-paids"

It's now obvious that Official Ireland will have nothing whatever to do with discounting or making off-bus transactions any more attractive as a tool to improve the useability of Bus travel.

Roll on the Irish version of "Smart"(ish) Integrated Ticketing.....they will probably charge a premium to those willing to abandon cash !!! :mad:

monument

They increased pre-paid ticket prices last September, only 8 months ago.

devnull

I stopped getting the bus because network direct made my life hell. Instead of dealing with the actual problems and bottlenecks, once again Dublin Bus starts to tackle the symptom (declining revenue) rather than the actual problem which is causing it.

Once again the travel 90 ticket has now been made unattractive for people who take two journeys of £1.85 each day, a repeat of the mistake the last time they increased the travel 90 ticket to make it 18.50 which made it unattractive for users of the then £1.80 cash fare.

Once again Dublin Bus decided that despite the fact we are seeing increases in cash fares, which one would hope results in greater encouragement of switching to smartcards, Dublin Bus raises the prices of smartcards a few days later. The Annual and monthly tickets are already much higher than they are in many other operators in the UK and abroad.

Unfortunately looking through what I have just typed, the words "once again" seem to be all too prevelient, here once again we see the same mistakes of the past, over and over again. It's like a stuck record and it's about time Dublin Bus had some serious changes, with some new ownership and new direction, or it seems we will keep repeating the same mistakes of the past.

Why should we move forward when we can stay stuck in our old stubborn ways for years on end and not resolve the problems. It really annoys me that such company can live in the past for so long, lately it seems there is only two tricks they have in their arsenal, cut routes or rise fares.

The company is deperately crying out for someone with a vision, and imagination with new ideas to drive it forward. Lets hope the upcoming new CEO of the CIE companies is someone with a proven record in transport, rather than the same old people who have served the company for x amount of years.

Aard

In Soviet Ireland, prepaid is more expensive than cash!

These people (a) have never used a bus, and/or (b) have never left the country. How hard is the concept?! Do people really need to be hired in a relatively new quango with relatively high salaries with apparently relatively low intelligence in order for a city bus service to be fixed? Ffs, it's hilarious. And AlekSmart, that "quote" you gave was too accurate for comfort!! :P

Ah, Ireland, with its Irish problems and Irish solutions.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

In Soviet Ireland, prepaid is more expensive than cash!

Ah, Ireland, with its Irish problems and Irish solutions.

I'll readily admit it's a depressing prospect alright.

If I was in a position of Authority I'd have "supported" the Travel 90 ticket by reducing it's price to €18.00 and marketed the ass of it

The current 50/50 split between cash and pre-paid modes is unsustainable if there is to be a serious attempt to introduce a Smart Card reigeme.

However,a quick perusal of the NTA's release here...

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/NTA_Consideration_Dublin_Bus_Fare_Increase.pdf

....will reveal that the NTA itself does not fully understand the basis behind the Travel90 product.

"10 journey Travel90 Adult Tickets will cost €19 or €1.90 per 90 minute journey"

Whilst it may appear churlish to correct this,I would expect an outfit with the remit of the NTA to fully understand the distinction between a 90 Minute Bus journey,and the actuality ability to make any number of Bus journies within 90 Mins of first validation.....It's an important distinction and cuts to the core of the marketability of the Travel90 product.

Sigh......:o

antoinolachtnai

Well, strictly speaking, a journey starts when you leave your starting point and ends when you get to your destination. It might involve a number of vehicles or modes.

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, strictly speaking, a journey starts when you leave your starting point and ends when you get to your destination. It might involve a number of vehicles or modes.

Yep agreed Antoin,but for the purposes of this thread we are talking of the current Dublin Bus Travel90 ticket offering.......I'm afraid the level of Integration you speak off is not yet with us...

Cookie_Monster

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well, strictly speaking, a journey starts when you leave your starting point and ends when you get to your destination. It might involve a number of vehicles or modes.

while true, the statement;

"10 journey Travel90 Adult Tickets will cost €19 or €1.90 per 90 minute journey"

IMO that would read to a normal person not familiar with the tickets as a single 90 min bus journey. They need to be as clear as day in making sure people know the tickets are valid for as many buses as they wish within the 90 min and that the 90 min only has to cover the start of the final journey, not all of it.

AlekSmart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

while true, the statement;

"10 journey Travel90 Adult Tickets will cost €19 or €1.90 per 90 minute journey"

IMO that would read to a normal person not familiar with the tickets as a single 90 min bus journey. They need to be as clear as day in making sure people know the tickets are valid for as many buses as they wish within the 90 min and that the 90 min only has to cover the start of the final journey, not all of it.

Agreed Cookie,but this is not "Normal Persons" we are talking about here,this is the National Transport AUTHORITY.

What is particularly depressing for me,is the reality that neither the Public Transport Providers nor their regulatory agency appear to be following broader developments,let alone staying ahead of them,as evidenced from this today.....

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-face-triple-whammy-of-hikes-in-tax-tolls-and-petrol-2629166.html

There we have it,the main competing mode for Public Transport witnessing a very significant rise in operation costs,yet all we in Public Transport can do is increase our fares ahead of the competition.

Even taken on it's own,the Travel90 represents a potentially huge viable and attractive alternative to ever more expensive Private Car use,but,it needs to be marketed as does the remainder of the pre-paid range,with specific attention paid to the availability of non-consecutive period tickets as a flexible alternative to using one`'s car every working day.

Even persuading 10,000 people to leave their car at home for 1 day per week would make a huge dent in the current public vs private bias,yet it's not something deemed worth going for......Initiative anybody...??

Carawaystick

I thought there had to be 5 working days of notice for a price hike, Today's a public holiday, the 1st May is Sunday, so Saturday doesn't count.

As outlined on page three of http://nationaltransport.ie/downloads/revised_schedule_2011_dublinbus.pdf

:mad:

mgmt

Carawaystick wrote: »

I thought there had to be 5 working days of notice for a price hike, Today's a public holiday, the 1st May is Sunday, so Saturday doesn't count.

As outlined on page three of http://nationaltransport.ie/downloads/revised_schedule_2011_dublinbus.pdf

:mad:

I don't think prepaid tickets prices need to preapproved.

The standard cash fares for both companies are currently approved by the Minister for Transport. Prepaid ticket prices do not require ministerial approval. An indirect result is that discounts for prepaid tickets relative to cash tickets are less than in many other cities. As a result cash paying passengers make up the majority of fares for each company, resulting in cash handling costs and increased dwell times at bus stops.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/final%20report%20bus%20review%20220109.pdf

Dwell time causes journeys to be 20% longer on Dublin Bus.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71816738&postcount=59

LXFlyer

I think that they do now since the NTA came into being.

the groutch

how do they expect people to stop using cash if they increase the travel 90 above the 8-13 stage fare?

yes I know it offers transfers within the 90 minutes, but alot of people who used it for single journeys instead of having to carry cash, are less likely to do so now. also the 30 rambler has almost no savings for those doing 2 x €1.85 journeys.

thins will only lead to more people paying cash, and slowing down journey times

dowlingm

If the NTA is to be allowed regulate fares, it should be allowed to regulate them all and not this ridiculous "Minister regulates the ones the papers will write about" nonsense.

AlekSmart

the groutch wrote: »

how do they expect people to stop using cash if they increase the travel 90 above the 8-13 stage fare?

yes I know it offers transfers within the 90 minutes, but alot of people who used it for single journeys instead of having to carry cash, are less likely to do so now. also the 30 rambler has almost no savings for those doing 2 x €1.85 journeys.

thins will only lead to more people paying cash, and slowing down journey times

Absolutely 100% On the Money....I find it unbelievable that both Company and Regulatory Authority as well as Government cannot grasp this element of the equation...

For me,this issue is about utilising the only REAL way we possess to attract new business to Public Bus Services....I'm not for a moment suggesting Car Drivers stop using their vehicles but using the bus for even one day per week would take a massive chunk out of our Carbon Footprint etc etc....:)

Is there NOBODY at the top administrative level prepared to take another look at this ???

antoinolachtnai

It comes down to the money Alek. They have run out of money and the government won't give them anymore. They are trying to find a way of getting it off the customers without too much fuss.

What they do here doesn't matter that much - what really matters is how the integrated ticketing wallet is priced is what will really matter.

Aard

If they wanted less fuss, they could have just simplified the fare structure (1-5 stages / 6-12 stages / 13+ stages) and made the Travel 90 equal to €1 less than 10 times the 6-12 fare. Even if they had to raise the T90, they could still wind up with something like €1.50 / €1.90 / €2.30 / €18.00.

I don't see how raising prepaid is causing any less fuss. They should be encouraging prepaid as much as possible: it is essentially people giving them money way before they have to provide the service. This is where the money is to be made, not in ensuring a tiny cash fare.

Also, they sell Rambler and Travelwide tickets. They cost roughly the same, and have roughly the same function. Simplifying these would inevitably lead to money saved.

antoinolachtnai

In terms of little fuss, they seem to have gotten very little press coverage on this increase or the last prepay increase, compared to the last one.

The big strategic play is really on how they price the integrated ticket product. If they come up with coherent pricing for that, that's the main thing. This isn't a particularly strategic issue.