Tri Cycle - getting my time down

connundrum

At the end of last year (my first year of training and some comps) I'd my pace down to 2mins 30sec per km over 20/30km. I was relatively happy with that.

Since starting up again a few weeks ago, I'm at approx 2.40 and am finding it very hard to get the pace down.

Is there any gym work/specific drills I can do to speed up the improvements?

Ideally I'd want to get down to 1.45/1.50.

Cheers

MrCreosote

What do you do at the moment?

I'd do lots of hills if you can. You can never do enough hill work!

kennyb3

With an average speed of around 24km/ph, you just need more time on the bike - simple as. You should be able to get to an average of around 30km/ph without any real structured training. So if i was you id put more time into the bike rather than getting overly hung up on drills and intervals etc

couerdelion

Do you cycle by yourself? What kind of distances do you do?

I always find that I cycle faster as part of a group rather than on my own, but the group rides help my fitness so that when I do have to cycle by myself I'm much faster than I would have been.

Also, is 1:45/1:50 a realistic time for you? It's >25% increase on a time you were happy with last year and an increase from around 15mph to 20mph.

connundrum

Thanks thus far,

Yes, do have my own bike and currently its 3 rides per week of between 20km - 40km depending on time available.

The pace that I was happy with last year was poor, and I realise that but gave myself a break as it was the first year back after aaaages off the bike.

I really am determined to get down to below 2mins p/km.

I guessed that the majority of responses would be to get more time on the bike, and I'll have to restructure a few things to make this possible. I do however find it easier to get to the gym than out on the bike as the bike is stored away from my house (due to space constrictions).

Any gym specific exercises would be appreciated.

(and I will get out on the bike more

MrCreosote

If you're doing 80-100k on the bike you should be able to get that time down.

Here's what I would do (not an expert by any stretch of imagination)-

1: keep up the 3 days/week on the bike
2: get a bike set-up done, add a set of clip-on aero-bars if you don't have them (I'm assuming you're on a road bike)
3: Throw in a few faster intervals on the rides like 5 min fast/ 5 min slow or 30s max efforts every few minutes, or hills
4: Leg strength work in the gym maybe twice/week- squats, "invisible chairs", one leg bodyweight squats- that sort of thing
5: Core strength and flexibility for that dynamic aero position- planks and so on

shotgunmcos

What is your cadence like? Going faster is simple, there are 2 ways

Pedal faster: cadence drills = segments of fast-very fast pedalling (100-120spm)
Pedal harder: power drills = segments of pushing big gears (50x12 or 53x13) or going up hills in the big ring with a minimum cadence of 60

Focus one session per week specifically on cycling harder intervals, focus another on cycling longer than 40k with a good fresh cadence

If you want to hit 30kmh for sessions then plodding along at 25kmh forever will not get you there (sorry kennyb3 - time on the saddle alone does not necessarily make you faster!). You will have to do some work at and above 30kmh progressively until you can hold it for 5k, 10k, 15k etc...

Group rides are good but its easy to get pulled along. A tip I could give for the group rides is to allow yourself to fall 2-300m off the back before a hill and then push hard to catch the group again.

Best of luck

Oryx

I have the same, eh, conundrum, so the replies here help me too.

Last year I got on the bike having never really ridden a bike before, ever. Nope, not even as a kid. Got to similar speeds as you. Ive turboed regularly all winter, but the gains Ive made have been small. Moving from 2.30 to 2.20. My personal limiters are: lack of actual skills (aero bars are still a long way off, even the drops are difficult), being unable to make gains downhill as Im scared, and lack of power on steeper uphills.

Its all stuff Im working on, Im introducing hill reps, longer rides, and pushing the skills a bit. 1k intervals on the flat are another thing Ive been told to try. I dont ride with a group, as Id feel too intimidated, and Im a bit of a training loner, but I reckon thats one of the best ways to improve, having listened to those that do go out in a group.

kennyb3

I agree somewhat with some of what is said above and prob should have qualified my answer in that you should do one long cycle and one faster cycle (5min intervals or 10km TT) at least and whatever else you can fit in. I didnt mean just constantly cycle along at one speed - i dont think anyone does that.

However and i dont mean to be disrespectful but an average of 24km/ph over a short distance is quite slow and suggests a lack of a base of any sort and just a general lack of cycling. I wonder OP did you keep the cycling up over the winter. Also when did you start back?

On that basis i wouldnt be suggesting doing any work in the 50*12 or big gears like that as you might do your knees or back in.

Id keep the big ring work for when you ve a good few weeks of 80-100km/pw in the legs and body.

I'd also stay away from group rides as sitting shielded from the wind might not be the best use of your time.

If you ve limited time (3 - 5 hrs as suggested by your posts), then obviously you have to try get the most out of it but i honestly think you'd improve quickly by just riding a bit more - up your long bike to 50k plus and riding hard twice a week and a couple more easy rides.

there are loads of ways to do this - commuting to work, getting up earlier at the weekends, getting a decent set of lights and going out late.

Can you store the bike in the back of the car? A mates house nearer by than present? A shed (get a good lock)?

nerraw1111

cheers for the tips, also looking to build up some speed.

I've a choice of training in the Phoenix Park or doing Howth Head. Should I be training differently given the locations? Presume PP would be best for intervals and pushing big gears given the relatively car free roads?

And perhaps Howth head for hill climb?

connundrum

kennyb3 wrote: »

However and i dont mean to be disrespectful but an average of 24km/ph over a short distance is quite slow and suggests a lack of a base of any sort and just a general lack of cycling. I wonder OP did you keep the cycling up over the winter. Also when did you start back?

On that basis i wouldnt be suggesting doing any work in the 50*12 or big gears like that as you might do your knees or back in.

Id keep the big ring work for when you ve a good few weeks of 80-100km/pw in the legs and body.

Feel free to disrespect I completely gave up the ghost around November '10 and dug the bike out from under a mound of crap about 3 weeks ago.

As I said earlier, I do realise that I've not given it much time yet - but am looking for tips to get me into the +/- 2 min zone quickly. I will of course be wary of injury and won't go hell for leather just yet.

kennyb3 wrote: »

If you ve limited time (3 - 5 hrs as suggested by your posts), then obviously you have to try get the most out of it but i honestly think you'd improve quickly by just riding a bit more - up your long bike to 50k plus and riding hard twice a week and a couple more easy rides.

there are loads of ways to do this - commuting to work, getting up earlier at the weekends, getting a decent set of lights and going out late.

Can you store the bike in the back of the car? A mates house nearer by than present? A shed (get a good lock)?

Looks like no more sleep ins so

BTW this is all leading to 70.3 Galway so all advice is most welcome.

Daz1214

i was the same, when i started cycling in january my times were around 2mins36 per km but i found as a i got fitter and leg muscle developed more i got quicker and you will notice your times coming down, im currently doin 20k at 1min58 regularly...pratice makes perfect

tunney

I stopped reading after I realized the OP was using minutes per km as the unit for speed. Hurts head when talking about cycling.

Going to assume the thread panned out as :
Mcos - harder, faster more reps
Another - just ride
Mloc - cutting comment but probably informative.

I've no idea if the OP is cycling fast or so but I'd love to run at that pace. Given I've no idea of where there are nor where the want to go I'll keep my advice to myself and go marvel at the number of animal related threads on the first page and then go watch Telly.

tunney

I stopped reading after I realized the OP was using minutes per km as the unit for speed. Hurts head when talking about cycling.

Going to assume the thread panned out as :
Mcos - harder, faster more reps
Another - just ride
Mloc - cutting comment but probably informative.

I've no idea if the OP is cycling fast or so but I'd love to run at that pace. Given I've no idea of where there are nor where they want to go I'll keep my advice to myself and go marvel at the number of animal related threads on the first page and then go watch Telly.

Nwm2

connundrum wrote: »

At the end of last year (my first year of training and some comps) I'd my pace down to 2mins 30sec per km over 20/30km. I was relatively happy with that.

Since starting up again a few weeks ago, I'm at approx 2.40 and am finding it very hard to get the pace down.

Is there any gym work/specific drills I can do to speed up the improvements?

Ideally I'd want to get down to 1.45/1.50.

Cheers

Given that this is specifically for triathlon, you need to be good at time trialling - ie steady power output for 20/40km while still having enough to do a fast 5/10k run. Your training needs to get that steady power output up.

#1 Forget about speed as a measure

#2 Buy a heart rate monitor

#3 Do a 1 hour cycle test as follows:
- 20 min warm up
- 40 min at the max speed you can cycle steadily for 40 mins (don't start out too hard, keep it steady, but be fairly wrecked at the end)
- Your lactate threshold heart rate (LTHR) is the average heart rate for that 40 mins

#4 Workout time: do 3 quality bike sessions per week, 1-1.5 hours long as follows:

Warm up, do 2 or 3 x 8 mins at 95-100% LTHR, 2 mins rest between sets

(if doing only 2 x 8 mins, then make sure you do 1 or 2 x 15 mins at 88-94% LTHR in order to fill the 1-1.5 hrs).

Add on 1 min per week ( ie 8 mins -> 9 mins -> 10 mins etc). This is hard work, but will pay off big time.

Come back in 6 weeks with your new speed.

woody1

here is the crux of the problem then i suppose
to get your ( my ) cycle time down you need to be on the bike from the sounds of it from 3 to 4 1/2 hours a week
but you also want to be doing a bit on your running i dunno 2 hours presuming its a 5 k run
and swimming , ive no idea i dont swim but im assuming at least another 2 hours min

i guess until the kids grow up or im prepared to get out of bed at 6 in the morning im just gonna have to be happy with my current speed cos i aint got that kind of time to improve it

i added a nice bit to my speed last year doing a 12k loop around the area i live in as hard as i could maybe twice or 3 times a week.. worked for me last year cos i was going from a non existent base.. il have to do something similar this year but i dont see it making the same difference this year

Nwm2

woody1 wrote: »

here is the crux of the problem then i suppose
to get your ( my ) cycle time down you need to be on the bike from the sounds of it from 3 to 4 1/2 hours a week
but you also want to be doing a bit on your running i dunno 2 hours presuming its a 5 k run
and swimming , ive no idea i dont swim but im assuming at least another 2 hours min

i guess until the kids grow up or im prepared to get out of bed at 6 in the morning im just gonna have to be happy with my current speed cos i aint got that kind of time to improve it

i added a nice bit to my speed last year doing a 12k loop around the area i live in as hard as i could maybe twice or 3 times a week.. worked for me last year cos i was going from a non existent base.. il have to do something similar this year but i dont see it making the same difference this year

The 2 or 3 x 8 mins I quoted earlier is the key part of the workout. Even if all you do this bit, and you end up with three 45 min cycles per week it will still be better than not doing it. Essentially it is working harder than you have been up to now, for controlled periods. Working with your heart rate monitor will make sure you are working hard.

Depending on your limiters (ie how strong are you on the bike vs run vs swim?), remember that the bike leg will be half of your triathlon, not a third, so typically on average more time is spent biking than on the other 2 sports.

woody1

yeah it looks like a good plan, easy to follow and with the heart rate monitor you have a definite effort level, and you wont just be arsing round on the bike at your own pace, or what you think a hard pace is

im not knocking it in any way, just thinking aloud about how difficult it can be to do enough training of any kind ( running, cycling or whatever ) to see an improvement rather than just getting the odd 20 mins here 30 mins there an hour or 2 at the weekend junk session in, but thats for a different thread..

im out for one of my 30 minute ballbusters later..il bring the hr monitor and see if i can start applying some of your advice to my sessions ..
really have to start applying a little intelligence to the training..

EC1000

The OP need not worry. Quick check of the calculator shows 2m30sec per km equals 24kph. Thats the fastest I've ever heard of on a tricycle