Isn't this illegal?

johnos1984

I spotted these on another thread here

http://www.pittman.ie/Products/Permanent-Adhesive-Warning-Sticker-Please-refrain-%28250roll%29__753700.aspx

Now while useful for causing some annoyance the first thing that struck me is that if somebody stuck something to your glass using permanent adhesive and you were therefore unable to remove it and were then involved in an accident because your view was blocked by the product which you couldn't remove wouldn't the company producing the product as well as the user be liable for damage and injury caused?

Drummerboy08

I'd imagine the onus would be on the driver to remove the sticker properly before driving the vehicle.

I don't think there's anything illegal about it, sure the city clampers do it all the time.

CiniO

Is it not up to the driver to make sure he has proper visibility before driving?

MagicSean

It would be criminal damage.

johnos1984

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd imagine the onus would be on the driver to remove the sticker properly before driving the vehicle.

I know what you mean but the way I'm looking at it is that the company is producing a product which CANNOT be removed and is using that as it unique selling point.

Therefore if it cannot be removed how is the driver supposed to do that.

AFAIK the clamping companies have stopped using stickers like that and just fit ones which can be pulled off easily by the driver

johnos1984

CiniO wrote: »

Is it not up to the driver to make sure he has proper visibility before driving?

Yes but the point is they cannot remove the sticker therefore how are they meant to drive the car away from where it is causing a nuisance safely

It just seems the company is producing a dangerous product with little benefits

mickdw

While the company using those would not be liable for accident caused due to lack of visibility etc, as this is the drivers responsibility, Im sure they could be sued for damage to the actual car this was applied to. Im sure they wouldnt like a few bills for replacement windscreens. The fact that those stickers are being advertised and purchased on the basis of having a PERMANENT adhesive only strengthens the argument for any person seeking compensation as this would show that there was a clear intension to cause damage from the outset.

Just for those in the cheap seats........

This warning notice sticker uses a PERMANENT adhesive which is almost impossible to remove from the glass by the driver. The annoyance to the driver is the deterrent to future illegal parking


Definitely seems illegal.

johnos1984

It seems illegal to me as well.

Anyone can buy these stickers and make themselves traffic warden of the local car park and go around sticking them on the windows of cars.

As the company advertises them as impossible to remove, both they and the person using them would be liable for any damage caused and I would expect that they could be sued in the event of an accident.


I would say it is the company who would ultimately be at fault as they are producing something which is clearly dangerous to use

robtri

dont see why it would be illegal.......

mickdw

So if you come along and park somewhere you shouldnt, would it be ok for an enforcement officer to come along, break your windows and then say "let that be a lesson to ya"

JabbaTheHut

In the obnoxious parking thread, one poster said they got one stuck on their car, and it damaged the paint. They didn't say how they got it off. I'm sure he'll tell us how; He's a mod here

johnos1984

mickdw wrote: »

So if you come along and park somewhere you shouldnt, would it be ok for an enforcement officer to come along, break your windows and then say "let that be a lesson to ya"

Or for the neighbourhood crank who has no authority to plaster your windows and paintwork with stickers which are nearly impossible to remove.

I'm sure the same affect could be gotten with stickers that can easily be removed as most likely the person doesn't realise they have parked where they shouldn't.

I see a lot of people getting done parking in places where they are actually free to do so but where the local insane resident takes it upon themselves to spread butter/grease on the windscreen or the other favourite of letting the air out of your tyres because they assume they are not allowed to park there.

Believe me if I saw someone approach my car with one of these I don't think any amount of digestive aids would help them pass the impossible to digest remove adhesive

limklad

CiniO wrote: »

Is it not up to the driver to make sure he has proper visibility before driving?

Yes is it It is very dangerous otherwise.

zuroph

go to local harware store, and look for a spray called multisolve, its in a blue can, you spray it on, leave it 4 minutes or so, and you can peel the sticker off in one go. great stuff.

johnos1984

zuroph wrote: »

go to local harware store, and look for a spray called multisolve, its in a blue can, you spray it on, leave it 4 minutes or so, and you can peel the sticker off in one go. great stuff.

Did you drive there

zuroph

roll the window down

once got stickered in estate i was living in, and they had sticker on side window, which i dont mind, but one on the windscreen. I gave em hell on the phone and threatened legal action, they came down and cleaned it off for me.

limklad

As for Permanent Sticker. It should be Illegal to place on any part of the Glass of a Vehicle and for the rest of the Vechicle it should be illegal if if it cause damage to the Vehicle on removal.

I am not against Parking Stickers, Only the Permanent stickers.

Permanent stickers do not work for the idiots who poorly park their vehicles in areas to block others.

johnos1984

zuroph wrote: »

they had sticker on side window, which i dont mind, but one on the windscreen. I gave em hell on the phone and threatened legal action, they came down and cleaned it off for me.

Thats what I'd be more worried about than a side window TBH.

The fact anyone can buy these and stick them where they want is the problem.

Yours would of been from some sort of management company or clampers who could be contacted. These are anonymous

n97 mini

k_mac wrote: »

It would be criminal damage.

It would not, as it's not permanent.

If someone stuck this on your car and you felt damage was done you would have to prove it in court, as it's civil, not criminal. Highly unlikely a judge would support you, especially if you were parked somewhere you shouldn't be.

Irish_Elect_Eng

limklad wrote: »

I am not against Parking Stickers, Only the Permanent stickers.

I think that the confusion here is over the definition of permanent, the term means that the glue sets and requires a solvent or other removal method, that is compared to temporary or re-usable adhesives that are easy to remove or re-place.

Personally I would prefer the sticker as a warning over being towed or clamped.

Usually not a problem for me thought as I try to be considerate when parking.

CiniO

johnos1984 wrote: »

Yes but the point is they cannot remove the sticker therefore how are they meant to drive the car away from where it is causing a nuisance safely

First of all, it's drivers problem here. No matter who placed the sticker, the driver is not allowed to drive if it obstructs his view. It doesn't matter that sticking it was illegal.
The same if someone smashed his windscreen with a hammer would be illegal, but it's driver of the car who can't drive it with smashed windscreen.

Secondly - they are not permanent. With a lot of time and patience, you probably can remove it.

It just seems the company is producing a dangerous product with little benefits

I can't see any fault at producers side.
Obviously sticking it to random car's window is illegal.
But there are millions of products, which are sold legally, and can be used illegally.
F.E. you can completely legally buy something like that: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M-CORRECTOR-mileage-correction-tool-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414e50adf2QQitemZ280486784498QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools
A mileage correction tool. Most likely it will be used for illegal purposes, but selling it is legal.
The same with stickers.

johnos1984

CiniO wrote: »

Secondly - they are not permanent. With a lot of time and patience, you probably can remove it.

So if I return to my car on a cold, wet stormy night I should spend hours removing it possibly damaging my car in the process all because I may of parked in an illegal spot?

I imagine most of these get bought by cranks with nothing better to do with their time.

CiniO wrote: »

I can't see any fault at producers side.

Then why the need for permanent adhesive? If it was to discourage parking then there is no reason for it to be permanent.

CiniO wrote: »

But there are millions of products, which are sold legally, and can be used illegally.

Aye but this is being sold as a permanent reminder not to park there which I would consider vandalism.

****My original point was that it is dangerous to attach a permanent sticker to a window of the car knowing that it cannot be removed at the side of the road. I would consider this a major contributing factor in any car accident which may follow****

Yes the driver is not meant to drive with an obstructed view but surely there is a part to be played by the company in supplying a safe product which I do not consider this to be. If it is being used as described then it is an unsafe product.

CiniO

johnos1984 wrote: »

So if I return to my car on a cold, wet stormy night I should spend hours removing it possibly damaging my car in the process all because I may of parked in an illegal spot?

I imagine most of these get bought by cranks with nothing better to do with their time.



Then why the need for permanent adhesive? If it was to discourage parking then there is no reason for it to be permanent.


Aye but this is being sold as a permanent reminder not to park there which I would consider vandalism.

****My original point was that it is dangerous to attach a permanent sticker to a window of the car knowing that it cannot be removed at the side of the road. I would consider this a major contributing factor in any car accident which may follow****

Yes the driver is not meant to drive with an obstructed view but surely there is a part to be played by the company in supplying a safe product which I do not consider this to be. If it is being used as described then it is an unsafe product.

That's true. Probably it's bought by people who has nothing better to do with their time.
And I absolutely agree with you that it's pure vandalism.
Anyway.
If you are a victim of vandalism, that doesn't give you permission to drive with obstructed view. So yes - if you come back to your car and find a sticker, you should spend few hours to remove it, or get someone to do it, and obviously report the incident to the guards. But don't drive with the sticker.

And as I said before - I absolutely agree that sticking it to the cars is pure vandalism, although I can't see anything wrong with selling it.

johnos1984

I agree about driving it without removing it is a bit thick but there is a reason packets of peanuts contain the following warning, "May contain nuts". people are a bit thick

CiniO wrote: »

I can't see anything wrong with selling it.

Its is being sold as a permanent product to be affixed to a car window that isn't see through.

It seems dangerous as it cannot be removed. A reminder is all well and good but not something permanent.

Absurdum

if someone stuck one of those things on my car I would be very tempted to park my boot on their face, but I wouldn't because two wrongs don't make a right

zuroph

they're usually place on rear drivers side window, not hindering view in any way.

Nissan doctor

I'd imagine that no-one would have to worry about how difficult they are to remove if you just didn't park illegally.:rolleyes:

Gary ITR

JabbaTheHut wrote: »

In the obnoxious parking thread, one poster said they got one stuck on their car, and it damaged the paint. They didn't say how they got it off. I'm sure he'll tell us how; He's a mod here

If you're referring to me I had just asked a hypothetical question

johnos1984

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I'd imagine that no-one would have to worry about how difficult they are to remove if you just didn't park illegally.:rolleyes:

Thats great but as long as things are clearly marked.

As said a many times above what happens if someone parks legally and the neighbourhood crank puts one on your window

SV

It's almost impossible to remove spray paint too.
However a good paint renovator and some elbow grease will have it removed rather quickly.



Can guarantee the Gardaí would want a word with you if you sprayed something on someones car though!
Should be no different for this.

Tigger

I was in a summer camp on ucd campus back in the 80's. The father had to come collect me because I'd been hurt falling off a bmx . Bad enough that I needed to go, but home not enough that I needed a doctor. So he stopped outside loads if buildings in and out in and out ( ucd is confusing enough these days with signs etc but it used to be really hard to find which grey annomonois building was which) so finally he finds me ( again mobiles etc make this stuff much easier nowadays but he'd have gotten a call at work and driven straight in no real clue where to go once he'd arrived on campus.

So he collects me ( now it was summer and apart from at the start an end of the camp day there wouldn't have been any cars on the campus all day) and when he comes out some d1ckhead has stuck a big please do not park here sticker accross the windscreen so he has to try to get it off using his work clock card and the water from the squirts.

Now my father is a stupidly non violent man, at the time he had been doing kempo for the fitness and he ran 10k at a good level most weekends and he'd be 16 stone odd. To this day I'm fascinated as to what would have happened to the sticker man if he'd been there.