Are Track PBs More Legitimate than Road?

ecoli

Came across an debate on another thread and it got me thinking. Is running a PB on track more legitimate given the more uniformed distance (elevation difference, race line, accurately measured courses)?
Some people would say its easier to run on track because it is completely flat others might feel that it is mentally tougher doing continuous laps (have slipped up myself in this regard)
What do people think?

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

Came across an debate on another thread and it got me thinking. Is running a PB on track more legitimate given the more uniformed distance (elevation difference, race line, accurately measured courses)?
Some people would say its easier to run on track because it is completely flat others might feel that it is mentally tougher doing continuous laps (have slipped up myself in this regard)
What do people think?

Yes 100% in my books.

woodchopper

5k and 10k yes the track is more legit. However, I would think that many athletes would prefer to run 10 mile/ half marathons on the road. Although 10k on the track is mental and physical torture so it can be easier to run a faster 10k on the roads providing the course is accurate.

Timmaay

I would guess that on a proper road race course (ie offically measured using the Jones method as required for AAI permit events) a PB on this is as legitimate as the track.

The track is different I know, but it purely mental I think! 1st things 1st, if you are doing a 5k or 10k on a track, then 99% of the time the average standard will be considerably higher then a road race, so if you normally run 18mins, and are in the top 5% on normal road races, you could well be close on being last on a track 5k, with the very strong possibly of getting lapped, which has to take its toil on you mentally! Then there is the whole debate about the track being "tougher" before you have even stepped onto it, so some runners have already wrote off pulling a good time on the track before they have even ran the race, which is crazy!!


Following on from the other debate I was having on another thread that I take it your talking about Ecoli, does anyone know if there a limit to the net downhill allowed on road courses, for the AAI permit?, And with the debate about the Boston marathon also at the minute, what about point to point road races that there could possibly be very favorable wind conditions on also, is there any restriction like this with the AAI system?

ecoli

Timmaay wrote: »

I would guess that on a proper road race course (ie offically measured using the Jones method as required for AAI permit events) a PB on this is as legitimate as the track.

The track is different I know, but it purely mental I think! 1st things 1st, if you are doing a 5k or 10k on a track, then 99% of the time the average standard will be considerably higher then a road race, so if you normally run 18mins, and are in the top 5% on normal road races, you could well be close on being last on a track 5k, with the very strong possibly of getting lapped, which has to take its toil on you mentally! Then there is the whole debate about the track being "tougher" before you have even stepped onto it, so some runners have already wrote off pulling a good time on the track before they have even ran the race, which is crazy!!


Following on from the other debate I was having on another thread that I take it your talking about Ecoli, does anyone know if there a limit to the net downhill allowed on road courses, for the AAI permit?, And with the debate about the Boston marathon also at the minute, what about point to point road races that there could possibly be very favorable wind conditions on also, is there any restriction like this with the AAI system?

.

AAI permit as far as i know has no bearing on the elevation of the course. I think this only comes into play in terms of record purposes etc which would probably be in line with the IAAF rules (1m per km raced)

TheRoadRunner

woodchopper wrote: »

5k and 10k yes the track is more legit. However, I would think that many athletes would prefer to run 10 mile/ half marathons on the road. Although 10k on the track is mental and physical torture so it can be easier to run a faster 10k on the roads providing the course is accurate.

Don't know of many 10 miles or half marathons run on the track.

In answe to ecolis question I'd think the track times are more legit when comparing PBS. A friend of mine has a sub 14 min 5k pb from a ridiculous downhill course in the states. He's never broken 16 mins on the track or any other road 5k he has ever run

I haven't got the mental strength for laps on the track. Doing multiple laps on the road can even deck my race up.

Timmaay

I'm getting off topic here I know, but anyway,

From talking to a friend a few weeks ago who does the Jones measurement of courses (which actually is a lengthy process, its certainly not just lets run around the course with a trundle wheel!), anyway, he said on average anyone he knows who is an offical course measurer usually leaves 1m extra in length per km!! So for say a 10k most officially measured routes could actually be 10010m long! This is because it is difficult to accurately measure the course, and if a say an Irish record was set at a 10k race, and following this the AAI came out and remeasured the course, and it was only 9999m long the record might not stand :eek:!

I wounder if anything as such is done with an athletics track when it is built? Or is a 10k bang on the 10000m on a track!

(ok I'm bored today, I'll admit the above probably isn't worth thinking about, 10m is only what, 2seconds on your 10k time, which is nothing!!)

BeepBeep67

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm getting off topic here I know, but anyway,

From talking to a friend a few weeks ago who does the Jones measurement of courses (which actually is a lengthy process, its certainly not just lets run around the course with a trundle wheel!), anyway, he said on average anyone he knows who is an offical course measurer usually leaves 1m extra in length per km!! So for say a 10k most officially measured routes could actually be 10010m long! This is because it is difficult to accurately measure the course, and if a say an Irish record was set at a 10k race, and following this the AAI came out and remeasured the course, and it was only 9999m long the record might not stand :eek:!

I wounder if anything as such is done with an athletics track when it is built? Or is a 10k bang on the 10000m on a track!

(ok I'm bored today, I'll admit the above probably isn't worth thinking about, 10m is only what, 2seconds on your 10k time, which is nothing!!)

Could be wrong but I think a running track is measured 30cm from the inside of the track, so theoretically you could run shorter, but in reality during a race you never would. Leaving Garmin inaccuracies aside, and I would expect a Garmin to measure a 400mt lap short as the data points would keep cutting the corner, I got 1.71 for my mile last week.

shels4ever

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Could be wrong but I think a running track is measured 30cm from the inside of the track, so theoretically you could run shorter, but in reality during a race you never would. Leaving Garmin inaccuracies aside, and I would expect a Garmin to measure a 400mt lap short as the data points would keep cutting the corner, I got 1.71 for my mile last week.

Yep your bang on there 30cm from the kerb, but if anyone can ran a race on that line or inside it they would want to be very very small

robinph

Wikipedia wrote:

The world track record for men is held by Kenenisa Bekele of Ethiopia in 26:17.53, posted at Brussels, Belgium on August 26, 2005. The 26:44 10K road race mark by Leonard Komon of Kenya was set in Utrecht, The Netherlands on September 26, 2010.

So 30'ish seconds quicker on the track.

Track is the more standard environment between different races, with only weather conditions and altitude being the variables from one event to another. Tarmac is a less forgiving surface to run on than the track, the route on the road is going to be a few meters longer than the track race even if you take the shortest line, more likely to get some sharper turns and little ups and downs even on the best road course. If there is dodgy weather on a road course it's more likely to be more exposed than in a stadium as well, or at least doing unexpected things with gusts of wind.

I though that running a mile on the track was far too long though, no way I'd consider doing a 10km. :eek:

RoyMcC

robinph wrote: »

So 30'ish seconds quicker on the track.

I though that running a mile on the track was far too long though, no way I'd consider doing a 10km. :eek:

Me neither, and 10k's my favourite distance. It's not the boredom though, it's the reality that you're sure, as an ageing, crap runner to be lapped time and time again. In a road 10k there's usually someone even slower and neither have you got an audience throughout to watch you struggle.

A mile's OK, never been lapped yet

Timmaay

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I haven't got the mental strength for laps on the track. Doing multiple laps on the road can even deck my race up.

robinph wrote: »

I though that running a mile on the track was far too long though, no way I'd consider doing a 10km. :eek:

Ha, stop scaring me, I have my 10k track debut next Friday at the intervarsities in Belfast! I couldn't even keep track of the number of laps I did on a 5k last week, and ended up crossing the finishline thinking I had another lap to go!!

But very interesting point about the WR for 10k Robin, is that purely due to the road being an unforgiving surface and possible headwind effects etc, or could some of it be due to a lower standard in roadraces (for example how does the prizefund in a 10k roadrace stack up against a top track event , how often did the likes of Bekele do 10k road races!)

robinph

Well big names do run road courses, these being some times from the Great Manchester Run.

MEN
2010 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 28:02
2009 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 27:39
2008 Gunther Weidlinger (AUT) 28:10
2007 Micah Kogo (KEN) 27:21
2006 Zersenay Tadesse (ERIT) 27:36
2005 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 27:25
2004 Craig Mottram (AUS 27:54
2003 Paul Tergat (KEN) 28:48

Not sure how good the Manchester course is, but it can't be that rubbish if the likes of Geb keeps on turning up. Just roads are slower.

The road record being set in The Netherlands probably means that was a fairly flat course though.

BeepBeep67

My track 5k PB is 15:48 and road 16:15, within the same month way back when. I think it's easier to hit a rhythm on the track and stick to a plan, more variables on the road as Robin says.

woodchopper

Timmaay wrote: »

Ha, stop scaring me, I have my 10k track debut next Friday at the intervarsities in Belfast! I couldn't even keep track of the number of laps I did on a 5k last week, and ended up crossing the finishline thinking I had another lap to go!!

10k on the track is like doing a long run around a small pitch. Mental torture. Good luck in Belfast!

thirstywork2

Track PBs are More Legitimate than Road !!!