Thrash talk - how much of it is a wind up ?

HellsAngel

Watching MMA Live I see former good friends Jon Jones and Rashad Evans are thrash talking ( or bitch talking as I prefer to call it ). Personally I see it as just like the sort of clowning about you get in WWE. Now there have been times when two fighters genuinely hated one another, Chuck Liddell v Tito, Marcus Davis v Dan Hardy, Koscheck v Daley etc

But most of the time, surely it's just a wind up and also to help to put bums on seats etc ?

" Jon Jones 'hates' when people mention Rashad Evans " http://www.mmamania.com/2011/3/9/2040340/jon-jones-hates-when-people-mention-rashad-evans-who-has-nothing-to

MrStuffins

Well your link is a bit old. I understand why he hated it, hell, I hated it! BEcause people were looking past Shogun and talking about a Rashad fight when Shogun was still champion and Bones was the young pretender!

Now, I havent seen MMA Live, but I know why Rashad is pissed off. See, even when Rashad was on TUF he had a bit of an ego, he was showboating etc. So now he's become a big star! He was unbeaten and became world champion having never lost a fight! he was a cog in one of the biggest and close-knit fight teams in the world Team Jackson and he was a big enough star to be able to dodge fights in order to get a title shot!

Now, his title shot disappeared and was given swiftly to his younr protegé. He mustnt have liked that very much! Also, he feels he is as big or if not bigger than his fight team and they shouldnt be training the world champion since he wants to win back the belt!

No matter what side of the "Team mate vs Team mate" argument you fall on, it's obvious that all of these things have turned Rashad's world upside down. After all, he's a full time fighter. Fighting is his life!

I can understand why Rashad would feel anomosity and I believe that if this continues to be the case then Bones will start to feel anomosity back!

MrStuffins

Another quick point i'd like to make is that sometimes trash talking is fake. Like, take Nick Diaz! he's the kind of fighter who has to get into the mindset of hate for each fight.

I doubt he ever really means it though. I've seen him switch from extreme hate to complete respect as soon as the final bell rings. It's just the fighter's mindset!

Zero-Cool

MrStuffins wrote: »

take Nick Diaz! he's the kind of fighter who has to get into the mindset of hate for each fight.

I doubt he ever really means it though.

What!! He's a straight up gangsta outta Stockton son :pac: Really hope Dana takes Nick back and makes him fight Miller, actually, he should have Nick be a TUF coach against Mayhem! ah, an ideal world.

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

Now, his title shot disappeared and was given swiftly to his younr protegé. He mustnt have liked that very much!

It wasn't given to Jones all that swiftly, he was second choice.
The first ws rampage, setting up Rampage Evens rematch.

I imagine Evans would of rathered that route

Mellor

HellsAngel wrote: »

But most of the time, surely it's just a wind up and also to help to put bums on seats etc ?

" Jon Jones 'hates' when people mention Rashad Evans " http://www.mmamania.com/2011/3/9/2040340/jon-jones-hates-when-people-mention-rashad-evans-who-has-nothing-to

As for thrash talk, some times they genuinnely hate each other. Most of the time they don't. But i wouldn't call it a wind up, that makes it sounds as if they are taking the piss. Which isn't the case. It's all part of getting into somebodys head, makign them second guess or even change their game plan. it's very much a part of fight prep for some fighters, I honestly don't have a problem with it.

i think you might be mis-understanding the point of the article. There is no trash talk there, at that point, jones hadn't fought Rua at that stage, lookign past him to Evans would of been very stupid.

t-ha

What is this 'thrash' talk of which you speak?

MonkeyBalls

Sometimes it's real, for sure. e.g. Bisping vs Rivera

drayme

HellsAngel wrote: »

Watching MMA Live I see former good friends Jon Jones and Rashad Evans are thrash talking ( or bitch talking as I prefer to call it ). Personally I see it as just like the sort of clowning about you get in WWE. Now there have been times when two fighters genuinely hated one another, Chuck Liddell v Tito, Marcus Davis v Dan Hardy, Koscheck v Daley etc

But most of the time, surely it's just a wind up and also to help to put bums on seats etc ?

" Jon Jones 'hates' when people mention Rashad Evans " http://www.mmamania.com/2011/3/9/2040340/jon-jones-hates-when-people-mention-rashad-evans-who-has-nothing-to

99% of it.

Just business. Very few people pay to watch Fighter A vs Fighter B on a national level.

vangoz

MonkeyBalls wrote: »

Sometimes it's real, for sure. e.g. Bisping vs Rivera

Rivera's was just a wind up, but Bisping was genuinely p1ssed. a la spitgate.

As far as Diaz's trash talk goes, its complete legit, he didnt get into fisty cuffs in the hospital for show?

Think fedor is the biggest trash talker of all:rolleyes:

el dude

Almost all of it.

Mellor

MonkeyBalls wrote: »

Sometimes it's real, for sure. e.g. Bisping vs Rivera

Rivera was the biggest of example of fake of all time, he start calling out and abusing Bisping simply to hype the fight.
He got personal and pissed of bisping, but thats expect giving he was speaking about his family imo

drayme

drayme wrote: »

99% of it.

Just business. Very few people pay to watch Fighter A vs Fighter B on a national level.

There is a story at http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/05/11/ufc-to-offer-bonuses-to-fighters-for-tweeting/ saying how Dana White yesterday told fighters that they will offering $5,000 bonuses each quarter for fighters who gain the most twitter followers, who increase their percentage of followers and who write the most creative tweets.

Score one for sports entertainment.

HellsAngel

drayme wrote: »

Score one for sports entertainment.

" Dana White yesterday told fighters that they will offering $5,000 bonuses each quarter for fighters who gain the most twitter followers," My suspicions confirmed.

Mellor

What suspicions?
Are you serious saying this is purely down to WWE type stuff.

lol, understand business much.

First of all, a tiny percent of tweets are trash talk, most are news relates or general chat. Twitter is a huge, and free marketing tool. If fighters actively tweet, they are passively advertising UFC. All advertings is good for the UFC, more followers = more fans = money money for the UFC. Very clever from Dana imo

drayme

Mellor wrote: »

What suspicions?
Are you serious saying this is purely down to WWE type stuff.

lol, understand business much.

First of all, a tiny percent of tweets are trash talk, most are news relates or general chat. Twitter is a huge, and free marketing tool. If fighters actively tweet, they are passively advertising UFC. All advertings is good for the UFC, more followers = more fans = money money for the UFC. Very clever from Dana imo

I understand the business more than most MMA is about selling personalities and fueds. I am not saying it is purely that but it is the main reason for it rather than corporate branding.

RoryMac

Think people are reading too much into the twitter trash talk, most of the fighters i follow use it to advertise walkout tees, seminars. Some seem to like interacting with fans while some are just mouths, twitter just gives them another outlet to hear themselves talk.

I like a bit of trash talk especially when it backfires on a guy like it did Rivera

Ush1

MrStuffins wrote: »

Well your link is a bit old. I understand why he hated it, hell, I hated it! BEcause people were looking past Shogun and talking about a Rashad fight when Shogun was still champion and Bones was the young pretender!

Now, I havent seen MMA Live, but I know why Rashad is pissed off. See, even when Rashad was on TUF he had a bit of an ego, he was showboating etc. So now he's become a big star! He was unbeaten and became world champion having never lost a fight! he was a cog in one of the biggest and close-knit fight teams in the world Team Jackson and he was a big enough star to be able to dodge fights in order to get a title shot!

Now, his title shot disappeared and was given swiftly to his younr protegé. He mustnt have liked that very much! Also, he feels he is as big or if not bigger than his fight team and they shouldnt be training the world champion since he wants to win back the belt!

That's not what happened. Certainly according to Rashad and a few others(Keith Jardine etc..).

From the beginning Rashad did not want Jones on the team as he knew he would have to fight him eventually. He maintains Greg Jackson has publicly lied about it.

MrStuffins

Anyone who thinks Dana encouraging fighters to tweet equals WWE has no idea of business or no idea of anything quite frankly! Ridiculous!

drayme

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anyone who thinks Dana encouraging fighters to tweet equals WWE has no idea of business or no idea of anything quite frankly! Ridiculous!

It is closer to sports entertainment than pure sport.

MrStuffins

drayme wrote: »

It is closer to sports entertainment than pure sport.

It's closer to my very fond of Twitter 15 year old sister than pure sport, that doesn't mean Brock Lesnar is doing his Junior Cert this summer!

Who said it had anything to do with sport anyway? How could someone tweeting improve performance? Since when is Dana White an athlete? The point is it's about BUSINESS!!!! And Dana White s a very smart businessman!

DeVore

Talking up a fight has been around since Mohammed Ali ffs... and the man did it better than most I have heard since. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsAC4lhbE0g

DeV.

drayme

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's closer to my very fond of Twitter 15 year old sister than pure sport, that doesn't mean Brock Lesnar is doing his Junior Cert this summer!

Who said it had anything to do with sport anyway? How could someone tweeting improve performance? Since when is Dana White an athlete? The point is it's about BUSINESS!!!! And Dana White s a very smart businessman!

Stop trying to be funny and give an actual answer.

DeVore wrote: »

Talking up a fight has been around since Mohammed Ali ffs... and the man did it better than most I have heard since. :rolleyes:

When was Ali incentivised by his promoter to do so though? Ali was going into business for himself there.

DeVore

Yeah.... im sure the promoters hated it. :rolleyes:

DeV.

MrStuffins

drayme wrote: »

Stop trying to be funny and give an actual answer.

What are you on about? What answer? if you asked a question, there would be an answer! But so far all you've done is said "Sports Entertainment".

Again, you obviously have no clue of a lot of things. Firstly, Business! Secondly, the fight game!

If you don't see social networking as a great business opportunity, then God help you!

To compare tweeting to "Sports Entertainment" is just retarded! There's nothing funny about that statement, I hope it fits your criteria :rolleyes:

drayme

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah.... im sure the promoters hated it. :rolleyes:

DeV.

Why are you creating strawmen here? Here is a difference between tacitly endorsing it and further & further implicitly endorsing it.

This was in the news today:

Regarding Shane Carwin on twitter noting that Paul Heyman is going to work with him on promos, this is not a deal with UFC, but the production company that does the Countdown special and Spike TV hired Heyman to help with the Countdown show for UFC 131. His role was to help Brock Lesnar promote the fight, and with Lesnar pulling out, they asked him if he'd instead work with Carwin, which he's doing. It's not a UFC hire.

Mellor

drayme wrote: »

Why are you creating strawmen here? Here is a difference between tacitly endorsing it and further & further implicitly endorsing it.

You asked if his promoters asked him to do it. they may or may not have but I guarantee you if they didn't want it happening it wouldn't have