Emissions fail / Piston Ring replacement or Engine replacement on Mondeo 1.8

masterj

Hi Everybody,

Need some help making a decision on my mondeo 1.8, recently failed the nct on emissions.

Turns out the piston rings are fecked. Car is driving fine as far as I can see, apparently is burning alot of oil causing the high emissions. Strange thing is though the oil light has never come on (but bulb could be also fecked!). Mechanic that checked it reckoned it was driving with very little oil due to the burning.

I have the following options:

(1) try to repair the engine - not sure of the cost (probably 700-800?)

(2) buy secondhand engine and fit - engine cost + around 700 labour - not sure how much for secondhand engine and then I have the risk of not knowing its history.

(3) buy reconditioned engine from ford and fit - engine cost is around 2k I believe and labour around the 700 mark

Car is 03 and about 60K miles so still has a few years in it I reckon. Problem was most likely due to poor servicing on my part of the pervious owner's part.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

masterj.

Neilw

If it's burning oil you would have had to add some oil, how often have you done this or have you checked the oil at all?

Waiting for an low oil level light to come on is asking for trouble

Nissan doctor

Its highly unlikely that there is an issue with the piston rings on a mondeo with only 60k on it.

Any idea what tests he carried out to determan it was the rings?

masterj

Hi,

"If it's burning oil you would have had to add some oil, how often have you done this or have you checked the oil at all?

Waiting for an low oil level light to come on is asking for trouble"

Totally agree on the oil light! That is the bit that has me puzzled, I never added oil regularly but then I never regularly checked it, only before long trips (then then I would have added oil because it was low alright).

Most of the time it was doing very low mileage. Is it fair to say it could have been low on oil but always had enough to keep working away. Or if it did have a piston ring problem would it have burned through all of the oil and then I would have been in serious dodo!

"Its highly unlikely that there is an issue with the piston rings on a mondeo with only 60k on it.

Any idea what tests he carried out to determan it was the rings? "

It may be relevant but I think the car was lying up for a bit before it was sold to me, so previous service history is unknown, mechanic said poor service service history and/or wrong oil could have caused this problem? Then to be honest I was driving it straight after being lying up without doing oil or anything (because it had apparently got a full service and had just passed the NCT).

In terms of the tests - (definitely open to correction here) - could he have removed a spark plug and seen oil pooling at the bottom of the engine (where it should not have been). Mentioned putting a screwdriver in there and oil being on it - that was the giveaway (?)

Thanks for the replies to date.

nobody3

It'll be that low mileage on a 2003 car. Low mileage on an old car is always a warning sign, and unless there's a full service history best to stay clear of them in future.

Your options all depend on what you think the future of the car is!

Change rings, your min in around the 700euro mark because of labour, the rings will be cheap. However if the mechanic finds wear on the bores then the engine will have to come out, and the bill will skyrocket from there.

Secondhand replacement. You'd have to be pretty sure of the engine you'd bought. Did that route once myself and got burned :mad:

Recondition your own engine or by new replacement? Based on the age of the car you're probably looking at spending what the car is currently worth. :eek:

If you really like the car, and intend to keep it as long as possible it might be worth the investment. Otherwise look at selling as is, and use the proceeds and the money you were going to spend on repair to buy something else.

Henry Ford III

Get a proper compression test done.

masterj

"Get a proper compression test done."

Hi Henry,

Forgive my ignorance - what will the compression test tell me - will it confirm the leak on the psiton rings?

Is it a specialist job or would any mechanic be able to do it for me?

Cheers,

masterj.

Dartz

If it's a genuine low-miler, it might only have been taken on short journeys and the like, never getting up to temperature... especially if it's also been run easy.

Just a thought.

kona

masterj wrote: »

"Get a proper compression test done."

Hi Henry,

Forgive my ignorance - what will the compression test tell me - will it confirm the leak on the psiton rings?

Is it a specialist job or would any mechanic be able to do it for me?

Cheers,

masterj.

There are usually 3 piston rings, the bottom is the oil control ring and the top 2 are compression rings. Piston rings are spingy and need to be compressed when you insert them down the Bore,they move against the bores instead of the piston.

A compression test will tell you if your engine is down on compression, in theory it should be very even across all 4 cylinders. It will point to a problem, then you need to do a leakdown test where air is pumped into the cylinder and then you search for where the leak is. If there is oil in your cylinders, you could have valve stem oil seals needing attention, piston rings or Head gasket. All are fairly major surgery on a engine.

TBH oil on a piston wouldnt make me conclude piston rings, if these are gone, your going to have issues with the pistons as the Blow by leaks down to the ringlands, This can cause the piston to crack and break up. The only way to diagnose this is to remove the piston and inspect them. If your rings are worn IMO you will need the bores honed, this will require a complete strip down.
Easy way to see if the pistons are totally shot, is to open the oil filler cap and feel for any back pressure, there should be very very little on a healthy engine!


Unless your car is suffering from pre detonation or overheated big time, I would be very very suprised if rings are gone at 60K.

Nissan doctor

A compression test is not going to tell you anything if the car is still starting a driving fine.

Its a leakdown test that you would need to have done as the rings would first lose their ability to hold cylinder pressure, not make it, if they have an issue.

masterj

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the replies - from what I can read here it looks like there is a fairly big question as to whether there is a problem with the piston rings at all so I will be looking for a second opinion.

To cover a few of the points above:

No overheating problems - temperature is always fine, even after long trips of 250 miles or so. I am not topping up oil along those trips, before or after. I now know I should be checking oil more regularly but before this I was not obessing about it at all and the car was running grand.

Followup question for nissandoctor please:

"Its a leakdown test that you would need to have done as the rings would first lose their ability to hold cylinder pressure, not make it, if they have an issue."

If the rings were broken / worn for a long time would I be seeing any other symptoms other than the high emissions on the NCT. That is the only reason I am on this line of investigation at the moment.

What were the actual results of the emissions test?

masterj

Hi RoverJames,

Here are the numbers from the nct results:

Low Idle
CO 2.58%
HC 884 ppm

High Idle
Lamba 0.85
CO 5.15%
HC 989 ppm

No idea myself what they mean but the guy in the NCT centre said they were exceptionally high and reckoned there might be some thing serious up with the engine (or just a lamba sensor).

Mechanic that looked at the pistons replaced the lambda sensor and said it made no difference at all.

Nissan doctor

masterj wrote: »

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for the replies - from what I can read here it looks like there is a fairly big question as to whether there is a problem with the piston rings at all so I will be looking for a second opinion.

To cover a few of the points above:

No overheating problems - temperature is always fine, even after long trips of 250 miles or so. I am not topping up oil along those trips, before or after. I now know I should be checking oil more regularly but before this I was not obessing about it at all and the car was running grand.

Followup question for nissandoctor please:

"Its a leakdown test that you would need to have done as the rings would first lose their ability to hold cylinder pressure, not make it, if they have an issue."

If the rings were broken / worn for a long time would I be seeing any other symptoms other than the high emissions on the NCT. That is the only reason I am on this line of investigation at the moment.

A car that is starting on the button, idling perfectly, not using any excess oil, not loosing any power or suffering any flat spots under load and doesn't have any smoke on start up or when driving will not have any broken or damaged rings.

I think you need to ask your mechanic how exactly he is diagnosing the problem. Did he actually check the function of the lamda sensor or just change it because they can effect emissions?

There are several things that could cause the readings you have. The high HC levels could be caused by poor spark plugs(old, fouled, wrong type) or a vacum leak amongst other things.

The High CO could be a failed or dirty lamda, but could also be as simple as a leaking exhaust gasket.

end a eknny

these 1.8 engines or dirt and if you buy a second hand one (which will be difficult in itdelf) it will quite lightly be dirt these engines usually pack up after 100k

masterj

Hi NissanDoctor,

Thanks for the tips to date - one very last point to make and then I'll leave ya alone!

"A car that is starting on the button, idling perfectly, not using any excess oil, not loosing any power or suffering any flat spots under load and doesn't have any smoke on start up or when driving will not have any broken or damaged rings."

Only other issue is that on 90% of ignition starts the car needs the accelerator pressed to give it some fuel. Rarely it starts on just the turn of the key, most times it needs the pedal.

I asked another mechanic about that and he said it was common enough on the modeo but it always niggled me to have such an obvious issue. He said it was something along the lines of the fuel needing to stay in the fuel line after shutdown of the car. So he suggested pressing accelerator after stopping the engine to prime it for the next start.

(that could all be nonsense obviously!)

So would the need for the accelerator pedal on ignition give any further pointers?

Definitely going to get a second opinion on this so thanks again for the pointers - would be great if I can rescue the car for just another year or two.

kona

masterj wrote: »

Hi RoverJames,

Here are the numbers from the nct results:

Low Idle
CO 2.58%
HC 884 ppm

High Idle
Lamba 0.85
CO 5.15%
HC 989 ppm

No idea myself what they mean but the guy in the NCT centre said they were exceptionally high and reckoned there might be some thing serious up with the engine (or just a lamba sensor).

Mechanic that looked at the pistons replaced the lambda sensor and said it made no difference at all.

You are running very very rich, it looks like there is so much petrol going in that its not fully combusting. when was the car serviced last? Leads, plugs, filters? Also does the Mondeo use a EDIS module? perhaps this has packed in? DO these engines need valve clearances adjusted? or is it automatic?

masterj

Hi Kona,

Current theory is that it is so rich because oil getting burnt at the same time (due to oil entering the combustion chamber).

Mechanic reckons the oil ring on the pistons may be faulty because oil is getting into the cylinder and the piston is covered in oil. (apparently) There should be no oil in there and that is the source of the problem.

No idea on your EDIS point - would need to do a bit of googling to figure it out. Car was serviced in november by a different mechanic and I have to take his word that filters/plugs where checked/replaced at that time.

Engine is manual - no idea on your question on valve clearances.

kona

masterj wrote: »

Hi Kona,

Current theory is that it is so rich because oil getting burnt at the same time (due to oil entering the combustion chamber).

Mechanic reckons the oil ring on the pistons may be faulty because oil is getting into the cylinder and the piston is covered in oil. (apparently) There should be no oil in there and that is the source of the problem.

No idea on your EDIS point - would need to do a bit of googling to figure it out. Car was serviced in november by a different mechanic and I have to take his word that filters/plugs where checked/replaced at that time.

Engine is manual - no idea on your question on valve clearances.

The oil would show up as a Hydrocarbon , HC the Lambda .85 means your running rich, AFR is 14:1 the lambda = 1, so .85 means your rich. The CO is quite high too which indicates a rich mixture too.

The EDIS module is the coil pack on ford engines, If your not getting a good spark this will cause high emissions.
As Nissan Doctor said, If you rings were gone you wouldnt need a NCT to tell you something was wrong.

If your running rich, there may be a buildup of carbon on the piston, through a spark plug hole this can look like oil.

If your valve clearances are off, it will affect your cam timing and so you may have a greater valve overlap, basically when inlet and exhaust are both open.

From what you have said it doesnt look like rings.

Mikethenovice

Hi,

Hope I'm not hijacking this thread...

My 2001 1.8 petrol (Zetec) Mondeo failed the NCT test today. Same results as above.

At low revs
CO 2.01%
HC 875ppm

Lambda 0.95

My wife brought the car to the NCT and I think the guy told her that he didn't run the high rev test as it would damage his sensor....

Car has 138K miles on it and I have owned it since 2002 with regular services all along.

For the last 18months or so the car have been burning oil. On a 300 mile round trip (on Motorway - high speed) it will burn 2 or 3 litres of oil!

Other than that it is running fine! It was serviced last week in prepration for the NCT and the mechanic told me he was worried about emissions (he could smell them)... He reckons it is an oil ring problem.

Question is - is it worth spending €1000 to get the rings changed (and the cylinders honed) or is it dead money....

I'd be happy to get another couple of years out of an otherwise good car...

Thanks for any advice
Michael

Bigus

Failing on emissions is a Very common problem on petrol Mondeos. This rules out buying a second hand engine because it'll be the same.

A bit of a long shot but because yours is low miles i'd try a good engine flush which if you're lucky might clear varnish and gum off the rings and possibly solve your problem. your mechanic could do a before and after emissions test.

Mikethenovice

Hi,
Thanks for the comment but the car has 138,000 miles on it. Not low milage?

masterj

Hi Mike,

Just to let you know that I have made my mind up to look at either scrapping the car or trading it in. The value of the car does not justify putting in a secondhand engine and the official ford reconditioned engine to also way too expensive.

Very unhappy because like you the car is driving perfectly, probably heavy on petrol and oil but otherwise would do me for another year or two. No chance of passing NCT so time to put it to bed.

Most opinions seem to agree that the 1.8 petrol engines on the mondeo have this problem, even if you have looked after it.

masterj.

alias no.9

masterj wrote: »

Only other issue is that on 90% of ignition starts the car needs the accelerator pressed to give it some fuel. Rarely it starts on just the turn of the key, most times it needs the pedal.

I asked another mechanic about that and he said it was common enough on the modeo but it always niggled me to have such an obvious issue. He said it was something along the lines of the fuel needing to stay in the fuel line after shutdown of the car. So he suggested pressing accelerator after stopping the engine to prime it for the next start.

It sounds like your mechanic trained a long time ago and hasn't really kept up with technology. I'm open to correction but I would expect the Mondeo to have a 'Fly by Wire' throttle, and it definitely has Electronic Fuel Injection, this being the case, then pressing the accelerator after stopping the engine will do absolutely nothing.

illegalpower

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondeo

Have a read of this. Check mark3 under the engine section paragraph 2.

Unfortunately, there was a design flaw with the new 1.8 and 2.0 L petrol units with the butterfly valves in the inlet manifold, which could cause severe engine damage when they failed. The plastic components of the butterfly valves wear out too quickly and when loose enough can result in them falling apart and releasing metal and plastic parts into the engine cylinders, potentially causing severe engine damage (How to Diagnose) The part was uprated by Ford in late 2002 to early 2003 and this prevented the problem from occurring in later engines.

Dont know if this any help but we had an 01 mondeo 1.8 zetec mondeo in work and this happened to it. When i was ringing scrapyards at the time they all said they were full of 1.8zetec mondeos with the same problem and didn't want any more. Yours seems to have a fair whack of milage and i would have thought that the problem would have arisen by now

Mikethenovice

Thanks Illegalpower.
That may be the source of the trouble. Bits in the chambers could be the issue. Even if the problem is "only" an oil ring the costs of repairing the oil ring and these inlet flaps will be quite high. Might have to bite the bullet and buy something else....

Leonard Hofstadter

If a swirl flap had broken off, you'd know by now.

The engine won't work if it injests one of these.

Mikethenovice

Thanks Captainspeed.

In 2009 the car passed the NCT with low emissions. Now they are high (HC 875, CO 2.01%) when idling. in the meantime it has started drinking oil. So I'm assuming oil ring problem (but I know nothing about car engines!).

If it is an oil ring, local mechanic says around €1000 to hone the barrels and change all the rings and then these flaps will need to be done...

If I thought I'd get 2 more years from the car I'd probably pay the money but I'm not sure it'd be worth it. Something else will probably go....

Car has 138,000 miles on a pertrol engine. I assume it must be close to end of life?

Michael

masterj

Hi Mike,

That was exactly my logic, you could pay 1000 and then something else could go on you.

Given that the value of the car is between 2-3k (in my humble opinion) it is probably not worth the risk?

masterj.

Mikethenovice

Hi Masterj,

I don't think I'd get 2K for a 10 year old 1.8 Petrol Mondeo with 138,000 miles on it.... I think you said you habd 60K on yours (a lot less the 138K)

My reasoning is that I need to spend at least 10K to bump me up the years to 2006/2007 and to get someting decent (I'm not going to purchase a 10 year old car). Even then I have a 4-5 year old car that will have ongoing maintenance requirements/costs...

10K is a lot more than 1500 (to fix current problems) so I'd be happy to spend less and keep current car running.

Main issue is my wife... She has wanted me to change the mondeo for years and if i spend 1500 and it breaks again I'll hear nothing but "I told you so" for the next year!!!

Today we go wind of the inlet issue. There are probably loads more issues waiting to get us....

Bringing it to another garage tomorrow for a second opinion.

Michael

nomdeboardie

Another hijacker here – hope I’m not doing the zombie thing, but I’m another Mondeo emissions victim :mad: and I had been following the thread previously. Briefly:

-- 10-year-old 1.8L Zetec with only 50K miles :eek:
-- “Check Engine” light came on last summer and Garage1 said emissions were off and engine was burning oil, “probably piston rings”. They seemed to have lost the emissions printout(!), so I don’t know details. Turned off warning light.
-- I monitored oil “usage”: ~1L in 1000 miles.
-- Light came on again a few months later. November, Garage2: Got oil changed. Diagnostics = “inefficient catalytic convertor”. (+ Turned light off; came on again a couple of months later)
-- I monitored oil “usage” again: no drop in level at all over 1500 miles! :)
-- While getting some other work done a few weeks ago Garage2 tested emissions = failing so badly not possible to generate printout; problem inc that lambda was off (I don’t know which direction). Mechanic said smell indicated oil being burnt.
-- Used Dipetaine Fuel Treatment as a last hope in run-up to NCT
-- Light came on again a few days ago. Got it turned off and diagnostics now indicate EGR (engine gas recycling system?) in addition to cat
-- NCT today: failed on high idle CO (only)
Low idle CO = 0.18 vol% (0.5 allowed),
Low idle HC = 133 ppm (0 allowed, but “not applicable”, so not failed on that)
High idle lambda = 1.01 (0.97-1.03 acceptable)
High idle CO = 0.66 vol% (0.3% allowed) => FAIL
High idle HC = 171 ppm (200 allowed)

Other than that, the engine seems to run fine, except that I have had trouble starting on a few isolated occasions (“ticking sound”, had to try second/third/fourth time before turned over). Observing exhaust, I do not see or smell anything alarming (but I know little about cars).
Since it doesn’t actually seem to be burning measurable amounts of oil(?), I’m thinking the following might be the best bet before scrapping the car:
(1) Check/replace EGR thingy
(2) Get garage to retest emissions. If still bad…
(3) Replace cat (maybe with cheapest available, rather than new Ford part)?
If this worked and could be done within the restet window I’d get a 2-year cert

Any thoughts welcome!

end a eknny

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Another hijacker here – hope I’m not doing the zombie thing, but I’m another Mondeo emissions victim :mad: and I had been following the thread previously. Briefly:

-- 10-year-old 1.8L Zetec with only 50K miles :eek:
-- “Check Engine” light came on last summer and Garage1 said emissions were off and engine was burning oil, “probably piston rings”. They seemed to have lost the emissions printout(!), so I don’t know details. Turned off warning light.
-- I monitored oil “usage”: ~1L in 1000 miles.
-- Light came on again a few months later. November, Garage2: Got oil changed. Diagnostics = “inefficient catalytic convertor”. (+ Turned light off; came on again a couple of months later)
-- I monitored oil “usage” again: no drop in level at all over 1500 miles! :)
-- While getting some other work done a few weeks ago Garage2 tested emissions = failing so badly not possible to generate printout; problem inc that lambda was off (I don’t know which direction). Mechanic said smell indicated oil being burnt.
-- Used Dipetaine Fuel Treatment as a last hope in run-up to NCT
-- Light came on again a few days ago. Got it turned off and diagnostics now indicate EGR (engine gas recycling system?) in addition to cat
-- NCT today: failed on high idle CO (only)
Low idle CO = 0.18 vol% (0.5 allowed),
Low idle HC = 133 ppm (0 allowed, but “not applicable”, so not failed on that)
High idle lambda = 1.01 (0.97-1.03 acceptable)
High idle CO = 0.66 vol% (0.3% allowed) => FAIL
High idle HC = 171 ppm (200 allowed)

Other than that, the engine seems to run fine, except that I have had trouble starting on a few isolated occasions (“ticking sound”, had to try second/third/fourth time before turned over). Observing exhaust, I do not see or smell anything alarming (but I know little about cars).
Since it doesn’t actually seem to be burning measurable amounts of oil(?), I’m thinking the following might be the best bet before scrapping the car:
(1) Check/replace EGR thingy
(2) Get garage to retest emissions. If still bad…
(3) Replace cat (maybe with cheapest available, rather than new Ford part)?
If this worked and could be done within the restet window I’d get a 2-year cert

Any thoughts welcome!

it seems to be an ongoing problem indicating different faults which all seem to boil down to a smoky engine. i would be able to help with a used cat. what part of the country are you in

Technoprisoner

i havent read the whole thread but id be a bit dubious about the rings needing to be replaced...the only real way to confim the rings are gone is by doing a leak down test...90% of mechanics wouldnt even know what that is lol....could be so many other things like valve stem oil seals or if its turbo charged the seals going on the turbo or something as simple as the crank casae breather being blocked...so if i was you id get a second opinion

end a eknny

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i havent read the whole thread but id be a bit dubious about the rings needing to be replaced...the only real way to confim the rings are gone is by doing a leak down test...90% of mechanics wouldnt even know what that is lol....could be so many other things like valve stem oil seals or if its turbo charged the seals going on the turbo or something as simple as the crank casae breather being blocked...so if i was you id get a second opinion

it wouldnt be a turbo and very much doubt that the breather is blocked i would also doubt that the mileage on the clock is correct

dr.fuzzenstein

kona wrote: »

There are usually 3 piston rings, the bottom is the oil control ring and the top 2 are compression rings. Piston rings are spingy and need to be compressed when you insert them down the Bore,they move against the bores instead of the piston.

A compression test will tell you if your engine is down on compression, in theory it should be very even across all 4 cylinders. It will point to a problem, then you need to do a leakdown test where air is pumped into the cylinder and then you search for where the leak is. If there is oil in your cylinders, you could have valve stem oil seals needing attention, piston rings or Head gasket. All are fairly major surgery on a engine.

TBH oil on a piston wouldnt make me conclude piston rings, if these are gone, your going to have issues with the pistons as the Blow by leaks down to the ringlands, This can cause the piston to crack and break up. The only way to diagnose this is to remove the piston and inspect them. If your rings are worn IMO you will need the bores honed, this will require a complete strip down.
Easy way to see if the pistons are totally shot, is to open the oil filler cap and feel for any back pressure, there should be very very little on a healthy engine!


Unless your car is suffering from pre detonation or overheated big time, I would be very very suprised if rings are gone at 60K.

A1!

nomdeboardie

end a eknny wrote: »

it seems to be an ongoing problem indicating different faults which all seem to boil down to a smoky engine. i would be able to help with a used cat. what part of the country are you in

Thanks. Dublin, though

couldntthink

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i havent read the whole thread but id be a bit dubious about the rings needing to be replaced...the only real way to confim the rings are gone is by doing a leak down test...90% of mechanics wouldnt even know what that is lol....could be so many other things like valve stem oil seals or if its turbo charged the seals going on the turbo or something as simple as the crank casae breather being blocked...so if i was you id get a second opinion

What kind of mechanics do you know? 90% of people who know anything about cars would know there is no such thing as a 1.8 turbo petrol mondeo, so ease up on the mechanic bashing when you clearly haven't a clue.

Back to the OP. The rings are unlikely to be bad enough to cause such emissions without causing very obvious problems such as plumes of smoke out the back. Inlet flap problems would not cause this either, if they were giving trouble there would be a very loud ticking noise from the engine. I've changed several and it is a very noticeable noise.

You need to stay away from the guy who said to prime the accelerator, he is a clown. Those kind of guys make me wonder why I bother sticking up for our trade.

you also need to stay away from the guy who quoted 700 euro labour to fit a new engine, he is a chancer.

Obviously it is hard to diagnose a fault like this over the net, but every problem has a cure. You need to bring to a garage with an emissions testing unit, otherwise they are shooting in the dark. There are several "cowboy" ways of getting emissions down. Such as fitting two cats, letting un metered air into the engine. However your figures are extremely high. Get someone with a proper diagnostic kit to check the readings of the lambda probes to determine if the cat is operating correctly. Put in genuine plugs, check exhaust system for leaks.

What area are you in? Maybe someone on here could recommend a good garage. I know a really good one in galway for emissions related nct failures if it's any use.

jetfiremuck

You could try running a heavy weight oil 90w rear axle oil. It may be viscous enough to reduce blowby. Worth a shot before replacing disposing of car.

Nissan doctor

jetfiremuck wrote: »

You could try running a heavy weight oil 90w rear axle oil. It may be viscous enough to reduce blowby. Worth a shot before replacing disposing of car.

Whatever life is left in the engine will be snuffed out pretty quickly by doing that!

couldntthink

jetfiremuck wrote: »

You could try running a heavy weight oil 90w rear axle oil. It may be viscous enough to reduce blowby. Worth a shot before replacing disposing of car.

No.

Mikethenovice

Couple of comments....
FYI - Mine is the 1.8l Zetec with 139K miles (should be genuine as I have owned the car since it was 1 year old in 2002 (unless Ford Garage clocked it in 2002). 2001 car...
Problem is failed NCT - Emissions figure above somewhere but around 800 CO when idling.

Car has being burning oil for 18months. On a 250 mile round trip (on Motorway) it burns a couple of liters of oil.

1/ Original mechanic has no emission kit but could smell oil and warned me that it would probably fail the NCT before it actually did. He rang around and got the opinion that there was a 9/10 chance that changing the oil rings would fix the issue - common ford problem. €1500 is to fix... (around 700 parts - rest is labour)

2/ Second opinion from garage with emissions equip. Same diagnosis. Oil rings. €2000 + vat to fix

3/ Went to ford garage to look at 07/08 Mondeo as a replacement. was honest with the salesman that the old one had failed the NCT so I was changing it and his first comment was "Cat problem?"....

Can purchase a 01 Mondeo with NCT till 2013 for about €2000 on buy and sell so doesn't seem to make sense to fix it...

Sad to see it go. Really like this car. If I had 50K - 60K genuine miles on the engine (as some of the people above do) I would definitely fix it.

Michael

jetfiremuck

Drain engine oil. Run heavier grade oil and a can of bardhal.Take the car for a 15 mile spin at 2500 rpm. Heavier oil will not hurt the engine.

Nissan doctor

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Drain engine oil. Run heavier grade oil and a can of bardhal.Take the car for a 15 mile spin at 2500 rpm. Heavier oil will not hurt the engine.

Heavier engine oil won't, using a 15w40 instead of a 10w40 but you suggested using 90w gear oil!

A basic understanding of oil clearances within an engine would tell you the outcome of using such a thick oil.

Technoprisoner

couldntthink wrote: »

What kind of mechanics do you know? 90% of people who know anything about cars would know there is no such thing as a 1.8 turbo petrol mondeo, so ease up on the mechanic bashing when you clearly haven't a clue.

Back to the OP. The rings are unlikely to be bad enough to cause such emissions without causing very obvious problems such as plumes of smoke out the back. Inlet flap problems would not cause this either, if they were giving trouble there would be a very loud ticking noise from the engine. I've changed several and it is a very noticeable noise.

You need to stay away from the guy who said to prime the accelerator, he is a clown. Those kind of guys make me wonder why I bother sticking up for our trade.

you also need to stay away from the guy who quoted 700 euro labour to fit a new engine, he is a chancer.

Obviously it is hard to diagnose a fault like this over the net, but every problem has a cure. You need to bring to a garage with an emissions testing unit, otherwise they are shooting in the dark. There are several "cowboy" ways of getting emissions down. Such as fitting two cats, letting un metered air into the engine. However your figures are extremely high. Get someone with a proper diagnostic kit to check the readings of the lambda probes to determine if the cat is operating correctly. Put in genuine plugs, check exhaust system for leaks.

What area are you in? Maybe someone on here could recommend a good garage. I know a really good one in galway for emissions related nct failures if it's any use.

well in fairness if you had of gave me a chance to explain myself you nmight have found i thought it could of been a 1.8tdci !!! so you can get down of your high horse now...oh and what the hell would fitting genuine plugs do ??

end a eknny

Technoprisoner wrote: »

well in fairness if you had of gave me a chance to explain myself you nmight have found i thought it could of been a 1.8tdci !!! so you can get down of your high horse now...oh and what the hell would fitting genuine plugs do ??

no 1.8 tdci in 2003

Waterford26

Lads..u wouldnt believe what happened to me. A month ago i bought mazda6 1,8 (ford engine) with only 67k miles on it. Oil and filter was changed immediately but after 100miles the oil was on minimum and i saw quite dark smoke behind the car during acceleration couple times.. that's pretty bad. My mechanic checked the pressure in cylinders.. all was around 16,5bar(12 to 17bar is ok). But micro camera shows some oil on the top of the all pistons. He decided to change the valve stem oil seals.. only seals cost me 140e(set with some other gaskets) and another 200e for work. But this didnt help either so that car was sold.
Yesterday i took some cash and went to dublin. I found there nice mondeo 03, 1,8 zetec.. 117k miles on clock.. nct till 2/13 and taxed till 4/12 ..price 2350.. i took it of course. And what happend? I bought the car with exactly the same problem as before. Just checked all gasket and piston rings on ebay.. around 160e all together. Mechanic will charge me 300e(very friendly price). Whole engine will be rebuild so I hope that will help.
I've had mondeo before( 1,6 year 1998) which was an excellent car.. no problem with NCT.. flyed through on first time.
Dont want to looking for another car again
will let u know what the result after.

misiu3103

hi couldntthink
Can you help me with my problem i have a mondeo o4 lx 1,8 petrol and a change a 2 lambda sensors and the cat for new and my emissionns is still very high

low idle 700 rpm co 1,72% limit ,3%
hc552ppm

high idle lambda 0,79 not between ,97 and 1,3
co 7,59 vol % above ,2%
hc 951

couldntthink

Technoprisoner wrote: »

so you can get down of your high horse now...oh and what the hell would fitting genuine plugs do ??

Obviously you know very little about anything car related, especially Ford petrol engines. I like being on my high horse looking down at you on your donkey.

jetfiremuck

misiu3103 wrote: »

hi couldntthink
Can you help me with my problem i have a mondeo o4 lx 1,8 petrol and a change a 2 lambda sensors and the cat for new and my emissionns is still very high

low idle 700 rpm co 1,72% limit ,3%
hc552ppm

high idle lambda 0,79 not between ,97 and 1,3
co 7,59 vol % above ,2%
hc 951

Get a bottle of redex carb cleaner liquid. Red liquid see thru bottle. Connect 6mm hose into vac port on throttle body or vacuum line to fuel pressure regulator. Run engine at 2k rpm. The engine will draw in and burn the redex. Itll smoke like crazy and will probably stall. Let engine sit for 1/2 hr. Reconnect removed hoses and take car for a good run. Itll burn/ blow the carbon out. Then Change oil and filter. Put 90w oil in. Cheapest way in my opinion. Ive done it many times. 90w will not hurt the engine,

misiu3103

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Get a bottle of redex carb cleaner liquid. Red liquid see thru bottle. Connect 6mm hose into vac port on throttle body or vacuum line to fuel pressure regulator. Run engine at 2k rpm. The engine will draw in and burn the redex. Itll smoke like crazy and will probably stall. Let engine sit for 1/2 hr. Reconnect removed hoses and take car for a good run. Itll burn/ blow the carbon out. Then Change oil and filter. Put 90w oil in. Cheapest way in my opinion. Ive done it many times. 90w will not hurt



Thanks for advice but the engine is to exchange. Was already connected to the computer and it was examined,is getting oil alot and cheaper is exchange den fix it.
But thanks a lot for advice

Leonard Hofstadter

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Get a bottle of redex carb cleaner liquid. Red liquid see thru bottle. Connect 6mm hose into vac port on throttle body or vacuum line to fuel pressure regulator. Run engine at 2k rpm. The engine will draw in and burn the redex. Itll smoke like crazy and will probably stall. Let engine sit for 1/2 hr. Reconnect removed hoses and take car for a good run. Itll burn/ blow the carbon out. Then Change oil and filter. Put 90w oil in. Cheapest way in my opinion. Ive done it many times. 90w will not hurt the engine,

This post is proof that the internet is not always a factual source of information.

90W oil:eek::eek:? And what's worse is that you were already told by one of the forum's most knowledgeable posters about why 90W oil is not a good idea and then go and proceed to "advise" another poster to use it:eek::rolleyes:!

To everyone with a car burning oil - do NOT put 90W oil into it. Most cars use 10W oil - something like 15W is ok in order to reduce oil consumption (15W will slow it down a lot), but 90W is exceptionally think oil and is only to be recommened if you want to make sure you kill off your engine!