McLaren MP4-12C - a landmark achievement

pburns

OK, this has been bothering me a bit and the Veyron thread reminded me. There has been feck all discussion on here about the McLaren MP4-12C. Maybe that's because it hasn't been on TG yet with Stiggy smoking the rear tyres and Clarkson reaching for ever more ridiculous puns.

But the new McLaren...well firstly it's more 458 competitor than outright hypercar. Looks are subjective but it's fair to say it doesn't have the have the visual appeal of the Ferrari. And with that very Ron Dennisish model name there are whisperings it might be a bit...sterile...

But this is a car that has cracked the holy grail. Basically, thanks to what Evo magazine calls 'the most comprehensive re-think of car suspension' since the early Citroens, it rides better than most executive saloons. It handles - by all accounts - the way you'd expect it to handle. Only better. That - to me - is phenomenal. It is the first road car built with a carbonfibre superstructure. Chris Harris calls it 'the best sports car - perhaps the best road car of any description I have ever driven'.

Folks this is a landmark car...

AugustusMinimus

pburns wrote: »

OK, this has been bothering me a bit and the Veyron thread reminded me. There has been feck all discussion on here about the McLaren MP4-12C. Maybe that's because it hasn't been on TG yet with Stiggy smoking the rear tyres and Clarkson reaching for ever more ridiculous puns.

But the new McLaren...well firstly it's more 458 competitor than outright hypercar. Looks are subjective but it's fair to say it doesn't have the have the visual appeal of the Ferrari. And with that very Ron Dennisish model name there are whisperings it might be a bit...sterile...

But this is a car that has cracked the holy grail. Basically, thanks to what Evo magazine calls 'the most comprehensive re-think of car suspension' since the early Citroens, it rides better than most executive saloons. It handles - by all accounts - the way you'd expect it to handle. Only better. That - to me - is phenomenal. It is the first road car built with a carbonfibre superstructure. Chris Harris calls it 'the best sports car - perhaps the best road car of any description I have ever driven'.

Folks this is a landmark car...

I can't workout where they got the name from. Having 4 wheels is about as much as it has in common with an actual MP4/12. And the MP4/12 wasn't exactly the greatest McLaren ever.

jozi

I like it, I wasn't aware of all it technical advances but you have to kinda expect that from mclaren I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvi21SFsf5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2JVR0mAzjQ

unkel

Electronics and drivers aids are the way forward. Embrace! :pac:

I like the way the car behaves completely differently based on the settings of a couple of basic dials, as shown in the EVO vid

I'd love to see a head-to-head test with a 458. And not one done by a British magazine

PrettyBoy

Meh. Chris Harris said the Ferrari is better.

I'm sure its an amazing car but keep in mind that we have to put up with the British press nonsense when it comes to motoring. It's the same story every time Aston Martin releases a new model - it's automatically a Ferrari-killing, sub-zero, British masterpiece that shows the world that the UK can make the best cars in the world. The only difference this time is that the McLaren is actually a decent car, unlike any recent Aston Martin.

ottostreet

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I can't workout where they got the name from. Having 4 wheels is about as much as it has in common with an actual MP4/12. And the MP4/12 wasn't exactly the greatest McLaren ever.

I think the MP4/12 was the first McLaren after the 'older' era that achieved success. I (in my own head) would view the 12 as being the first incarnation of modern McLaren, what with the new title sponsor and new livery after 23 years or so with Marlboro.

MP4/1 - 1981/82/83 - Marlboro
MP4/2 - 1984 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/2/B - 1985 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/2/C - 1986 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/3 - 1987 - Marlboro
MP4/4 - 1988 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/5 - 1989 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/5B - 1990 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/6 - 1991 - Marlboro - Champions
MP4/7A - 1992 - Marlboro - Not
MP4/8 - 1993 -Marlboro - Not
MP4/9 - 1994 - Marlboro - No Wins
MP4/10 - 1995 - Marlboro - No wins
MP4/11 - 1996 - Marlboro - No wins
MP4/12 - 1997 - West - Wins
MP4/13 - 1998 - West - Champions

So to me, the 12 represents the transition from the Senna/Prost/Honda/Marlboro era to the Hakkinen/Coulthard/Raikkonen/Mercedes era and the beginning of the modern, more clinical and technological company that exists now!

Tea 1000

It's a savage car... absolutely no doubt. But for some reason, I don't care. And I'm not sure why. Maybe it's the looks, it is very clinical looking. Or maybe it's the bracket it's in.
I loved the Noble M12 and M400's, fantastic cars, giant slaying for a fraction of the price. But the Noble M600, even though it's better, for me it's "meh". Again, maybe it's now because it costs £200,000 and looks a bit boring that I subconsciously think "would I actually spend most of my lotto winnings on something that doesn't stir my soul as I walk towards it?". And it's the same with this. If it were 80 or 90k, I'd love it again. Like the M12, or M400, or Nissan GTR, half the price of the competition and actually better.
This is the price of the competition. And it is better. But maybe a Focus is a better car than a Gulietta, and I respect the Focus because of that, but given they're the same price it's the Alfa I'd have. So 458 for me I'm afraid!

Zubeneschamali

pburns wrote: »

it rides better than most executive saloons. It handles - by all accounts - the way you'd expect it to handle.

That's the holy grail? I thought the NSX did that in 1990.

I remember detailed drawings of it's long-travel suspension etc. etc.

Mr Benevolent

OSI wrote: »

I'm actually a big fan of the new McLaren, it show's that you don't need a 6 litre V12 to be the quickest and that technology really is advancing car design.

The Evo series proved that ten years ago.

PrettyBoy

OSI wrote: »

How dare they have any pride in something produced by their own country men!

It's not about pride, it's about saying one car is better than another purely because it was built in Britain. Of course British people should be proud of Aston Martin and how far they have come, but the sad reality is that their cars really can't compete with the likes of Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, etc.

Take this episode of Top Gear for example. Testing the 575 against the Vanquish S. They admit that the Ferrari is head and shoulders above the Aston, yet they'd take the Aston purely because it's not as good as the Ferrari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3rP7Bxgx3w

If you're doing cross country/continent runs then the Aston is your man.

Is it? To be honest if I was driving to the South of France I'd rather be in a 599 than a DB9. Really can't see the appeal of Astons once you get past the looks.

McLaren doesn't look good (IMO) but it is a brilliant car. But not as brilliant as expected if the motoring press is anything to go by.

pburns

Tea 1000 wrote: »

It's a savage car... absolutely no doubt. But for some reason, I don't care... So 458 for me I'm afraid!

I get what you're saying, I really do. And the Focus/Guillietta analogy is a good one. I'd have the Alfa too - almost as good dynamically but way more appealing.

However dynamics matter more at supercar level IMO. And to me, the MP4-12 kinda...I dunno...spoils the appeal of the Ferrari by being so much better. I love the looks of the 458, nicer than anything since the 355 or even going back as far as the 288 GTO. But I don't think it's just British press jingoism - the Mclaren blows it out of the water on every count bar looks, soul, all that subjective stuff.

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Is it? To be honest if I was driving to the South of France I'd rather be in a 599 than a DB9. Really can't see the appeal of Astons once you get past the looks.

McLaren doesn't look good (IMO) but it is a brilliant car. But not as brilliant as expected if the motoring press is anything to go by.

I'm not a big fan of big GT cars. They just seem kinda redundant now with easy air travel and filling up the tank would be a pain in the ass. I'd have a 911 for a cross continental jaunt - at least it would be stimulating. Hell, I think I'd take a 530d over an Aston if I had to drive over to Germany or Italy!

And don't get me started on the VW Veyron! It's been so totally overhyped by JC (that's Mr Clarkson not Mr Christ) it's not funny. It's not clever like the McLaren or even the latest Ferraris. They just aimed for a headline figure (1000bhp) and compromised size, weight, handling and everything else to achieve it. Sure, they got the ventilation to work so it doesn't overheat - big swingin' mickey. It appeals to Clarkson because he's a bit of a blockhead and loves his 'P-OOOW-ER!'

Anyway..the MP4-12C...yeah, it's t'riffic ! Crap name though:mad:...

Matt Simis

pburns wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of big GT cars. They just seem kinda redundant now with easy air travel and filling up the tank would be a pain in the ass. I'd have a 911 for a cross continental jaunt - at least it would be stimulating. Hell, I think I'd take a 530d over an Aston if I had to drive over to Germany or Italy!

Planes? If Dublin Bus comfort in an even smaller and more inconvenient package is all you aspire to then of course you dont get GTs. Air travel didnt get "easier", it got cheap and nasty.
You mention lack of stimulation in GTs.. you realise everything from a Nissan 370z to a BMW M6 is classed as a GT?
If I was trying to do a 1000km with minimal fillups but in a GT id kill two birds with one stone and take a 635d.

PS: On topic (almost forgot!) the MP4 simply does nothing for me. It looks like a generic 3d Studio "sports car" 3d template, and looks are super important at this level IMO.

Tea 1000

pburns wrote: »

I get what you're saying, I really do. And the Focus/Guillietta analogy is a good one. I'd have the Alfa too - almost as good dynamically but way more appealing.

However dynamics matter more at supercar level IMO. And to me, the MP4-12 kinda...I dunno...spoils the appeal of the Ferrari by being so much better. I love the looks of the 458, nicer than anything since the 355 or even going back as far as the 288 GTO. But I don't think it's just British press jingoism - the Mclaren blows it out of the water on every count bar looks, soul, all that subjective stuff.

I hear ya, and even though it may not affect my (hypothetical) choice, I would actually like to see or find out exactly how much better the McLaren is, because by all accounts the 458 is a very, very good car. I think Tiff reckoned it was the best car he'd driven, and to be fair to Tiff, he usually doesn't just choose something because it's a Ferrari or because it's British or whatever.
The McLaren may well be even better, but massively or only if you have a talent level of an F1 driver?

Moses7

and the spider has been revealed as well:

smash

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Take this episode of Top Gear for example. Testing the 575 against the Vanquish S. They admit that the Ferrari is head and shoulders above the Aston, yet they'd take the Aston purely because it's not as good as the Ferrari

Anyone who 100% trusts a top gear review is an idiot. They change their mind more than women. Next year they'll probably pick a metro over an Aventador just because it's British.

Mr.David

It's boring. I'm sorry, but this is not the type of car you pin up on your wall as a kid and dream of owning.

Technically impressive, but if it doesn't make you feel special what is the point?

Ferrari 458 any day, no question whatsoever.

smash

Mr.David wrote: »

Technically impressive, but if it doesn't make you feel special what is the point?

that's how I feel about the Veyron. So underwhelming up close.

BostonB

Seems to lack emotion. Not entirely sure why.

pajo1981

This BRITISH review said it all for me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsIOVx93zs

dgt

BostonB wrote: »

Seems to lack emotion. Not entirely sure why.

Always strikes me as a generic, non specific, gamers choice vehicle.

It looks like something straight out of a computer game. Like GTA, the knock off's of the real thing.

I'm sure either way my opinion will be controversial :pac:

unkel

pajo1981 wrote: »

This BRITISH review said it all for me...

You gave me what I was looking for, thanks

Kinda was expecting that conclusion...

Andrewf20

I really cant embrace its styling. For me it lacks edginess that say the Lexus LF-A has. Other than that, a great car it seems.

AugustusMinimus

I absolutely love how the GT3 race car version looks.

Mightn't be a bad idea to take a bit of styling from this car and put it on the roadcar.

BostonB

Prefer the Race car alright.

jozi

I don't think it's an ugly car but it's by no means pretty like a 458. I do like it however.

mickdw

When button drove it in Dublin, I have to say it looked amazing. Pics don't do this car justice at all. From the glimpses I got, it appeared that you could see the electronic suspension working in a stepping fashion like some of the amg mercs do.

Veloce

Nice car. Lot of critics comparing the 458 and the MP4 12C. Most people opting the Ferrari as the better choice. Tiff Needel is sure the McLaren is the better car. Personally I'd love the 458.