iPhone 5 and recording of users movements

Mike...

I have to ask the Mac users and fan boys of this forum what they make of the news report that you Apple iPhone is recording your every position, time and date.

I find this a bit spooky and can imagine if it were Microsoft carrying out the above action, The Fanboys would be in overdrive preaching the godliness of apple.

I have also noticed that a video has now appeared showing the next claimed upgrade for the iPhone and IOS. It makes me think do apple users have the memory of a goldfish or is this another case of apple leading their gullible followers on another merry dance in order to avoid some bad publicity.

I also am aware that I will be labelled a troll etc etc for this post, but I can assure you I would like some genuine answers to the above.

Also please remember that this is about apple only not a product comparison with other companies, RIM, Google, Nokia etc

Mike...

Gordon

Memory of a goldfish, why do you think I have this?

Johnmb

Mike... wrote: »

I have to ask the Mac users and fan boys of this forum what they make of the news report that you Apple iPhone is recording your every position, time and date.

I find this a bit spooky and can imagine if it were Microsoft carrying out the above action, The Fanboys would be in overdrive preaching the godliness of apple.

I have also noticed that a video has now appeared showing the next claimed upgrade for the iPhone and IOS. It makes me think do apple users have the memory of a goldfish or is this another case of apple leading their gullible followers on another merry dance in order to avoid some bad publicity.

I also am aware that I will be labelled a troll etc etc for this post, but I can assure you I would like some genuine answers to the above.

Also please remember that this is about apple only not a product comparison with other companies, RIM, Google, Nokia etc

Mike...

If it's about Apple only, then it's a non-issue. They don't have access to any of that information on my phone, only I do. I already know where I've been, so it's not a concern for me, but obviously if I ever want to sneak around somewhere without me finding out then I'll have to leave my iPhone at home.

Sad Professor

Already a thread about this in AMD and AH.

Several points:

* This isn't a secret. It was published by another author months ago, who has suggested that these other two guys who claimed to have "discovered" it are taking credit for his work.

* GPS data is not recorded, just cell towers and wifi in order to get a rough position. So it doesn't know exactly where you are.

* The information is NOT being sent to Apple. It's stored on your phone and on your computer. If you encrypt your backups in iTunes it's basically a non-issue.

* It seems that the data is recorded so that it can be used by apps on the iPhone (Maps, Camera, etc) so they don't have to find your location every time you open them. It's possibly used for other things too, but there's no evidence to suggest it used by Apple.

* This log file is not new. It has always been there. A recent update just moved it to a different location.

So what's the problem? Firstly, the file is by default unencrypted and easily accessible, but you can change this by encrypting your iTunes backups. Secondly, the file is keeping a history of your location instead of just keeping your most recent location and deleting the old data. This is most likely an oversight/bug that will be rectified in the next update.

Or we can just forget all the facts and just go with Apple is evil.

conor.hogan.2

More overhyped than the antenna issues.

muggyog

Mike... wrote: »

I will be labelled a troll

Why would that be I wonder?

Does your browser not record all the pages you have opened? Using your own logic Microsoft, Apple, Opera, everyone at Camino and Mozilla and untold other browser providers are spying on you. All those cookies you've downloaded.....OH MY GOD....quick burn the computer.

Liameter

I just loved reading the paranoid responses to David Pogue's blog about this.
"Oooh, the thought police gonna come lock me up, mamma!"
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/

PeakOutput

I prefer android to iphone and it is still a non issue, the people who are moaning about it dont seem to have any idea what they are talking about in the slightest including you

and you dont get to set the parameters of the debate by saying this is just about apple, apple is getting **** for something that all the other manufacturers do I have no problem with the industry being criticized for lax privacy controls but to single out apple for it is only done by people with an agenda

muggyog

......Or you could turn it into a game and make money out of your location.

NullZer0

If your Jailbroken couldn't you just chmod the file and stop them writing to it?
Has anyone tried this?

Sad Professor

iRock wrote: »

If your Jailbroken couldn't you just chmod the file and stop them writing to it?
Has anyone tried this?

I think there's already an app on Cydia that can do this. However, you'd just be messing up your phone's location services. As Apple have clarified, the log is used an offline database of cell towers and wifi access points in your general area. Android phones do the same thing. The only issue with Apple's implementation of it is that it mistakenly keeps this log even when location services is switched off.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

maccored

In case its slipped your attention, every single phone in the country is trackable, and has been for years. the iphone records this info on the phone itself ...... whats the big deal with that? Its the same information anyone within the digital phone network has had access to for years.

Mike... wrote: »

I have to ask the Mac users and fan boys of this forum what they make of the news report that you Apple iPhone is recording your every position, time and date.

I find this a bit spooky and can imagine if it were Microsoft carrying out the above action, The Fanboys would be in overdrive preaching the godliness of apple.

I have also noticed that a video has now appeared showing the next claimed upgrade for the iPhone and IOS. It makes me think do apple users have the memory of a goldfish or is this another case of apple leading their gullible followers on another merry dance in order to avoid some bad publicity.

I also am aware that I will be labelled a troll etc etc for this post, but I can assure you I would like some genuine answers to the above.

Also please remember that this is about apple only not a product comparison with other companies, RIM, Google, Nokia etc

Mike...

plus you really need to get someone to look at that massive big apple chip you have on your shoulder.

NullZer0

maccored wrote: »

In case its slipped your attention, every single phone in the country is trackable, and has been for years. the iphone records this info on the phone itself ...... whats the big deal with that? Its the same information anyone within the digital phone network has had access to for years.

.

How many of them cache the information? (without telling you)
How many of them store this information in a file that is unencrypted?

maccored

iRock wrote: »

How many of them cache the information? (without telling you)
How many of them store this information in a file that is unencrypted?

whats your point? mobile phone operators have the potential to tell where you are because of your mobile phone. they are all tracking devices. this is not new info.

Johnmb

iRock wrote: »

How many of them cache the information? (without telling you)

Pretty much all smart phones. And Apple did tell me they were recording the info, I have location services turned on, so it was fairly obvious really.

How many of them store this information in a file that is unencrypted?

Probably all of them too, if the detail they keep is as vague as the detail the iPhone seems to be keeping. What's the point in encrypting it? That's some of the least harmful information on the thing, someone having access to my contacts would be much more worrying than someone having access to what masts I was within 100 miles of with the phone!

Sad Professor

Yeah, I'd imagine all smart-phones now days keep some sort of offline database of cell towers, etc. I don't understand what the big deal is about this. It's on your phone with all your other private data. Some of your location data (nearby cell towers, wifi, etc) is being sent (anonymously) to Apple, Google, Skyhook, whatever, but that's just how A-GPS works. I'd imagine any A-GPS device works pretty much the same way. Otherwise you'd be waiting several minutes for a GPS satellite to tell you your location.

And the Android file isn't encrypted either. With the iPhone you have the choice to encrypt your backups and have a passcode. Which if you care about the privacy of your contacts, emails, browsing history, etc, you will have already done. I don't understand how somebody could be concerned about their location history, but not all those other things.

Hobbes

Mike... wrote: »

fan boys ... apple users have the memory of a goldfish... apple leading their gullible followers

You want to know why you are labeled a troll? There you go.

Also please remember that this is about apple only not a product comparison with other companies, RIM, Google, Nokia etc

Very very loaded question. Sorry it doesn't work that way.

The truth is this. All mobile phones (even before smart devices) can track your location when switched on. They don't need anything fancy on the device.

What happened in regards to Apple is that the information was stored on your device much longer then it needed to be. Something to note is that Nokia phones also store this data (if as long I have no idea).

The data was nearby cell-towers/wifi spots which are cached so you get the list faster from the phone, also to sync up with the GPS (which all GPS phones do).

The data wasn't used by Apple except by the device itself. Also it wasn't tracking GPS location but wifi/phone towers. So in some cases it would be incorrect by up to 100 miles.

5 mins on google would get you this information. Based on the initial comments it sounds more like you wanted to rush into this forum to gloat.

NullZer0

I can certainly understand how you don't see this as a security issue but it is (maybe blown out of proportion but it IS an issue and its the principle that matters).
Regardless of any of the above - the fact is that it happened and users were unaware.

Yahew

The OP cant really get away with condemning Apple for something all manufacturers do, as it is clearly an issue for all phones, and has been for years. The sheepishness and gullibility here is the anti-Apple guy who jumps on Apple for something being done for years.

Google is, of course, worse. Google know where I have been - not just the towers but the specific location - on every day for the last few years and the data isnt anonymous either. It also knows my searches.

This happens because if you log into google once - to gmail or another service - you are recorded on all searches from then on, the cookie is permanent. They can then reverse ip your location.

And this is worse for Android users, who are signed into google all the time as far as I know. Worrying about iPhone security when you are on Android - Android is free for a reason, if it is free and good, they are selling you. Including your locations.

Panic OP. Panic!! PANIC!!

HANDWAVING!!!!

NullZer0

Yahew wrote: »

They can then reverse ip your location.


HANDWAVING!!!!

Somebody has been watching too much CSI

Yahew

iRock wrote: »

Somebody has been watching too much CSI

You are aware of reverse IP lookups> My Mac knows where I am right now, to the street, on a wifi connection. Google thinks I am in London, which is a bit off. Must not have the best database.

The ip is transmitted with all web services calls so they know where we are.
All the searches are recorded, although you can burrow down into google's account panel and remove 'em.

Yahew

These are the guys used by Apple - google presumably have their own database.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

NullZer0

Yup - I think Google maintain their own.

NullZer0

Yahew wrote: »

You are aware of reverse IP lookups> My Mac knows where I am right now, to the street, on a wifi connection. Google thinks I am in London, which is a bit off. Must not have the best database.

Incorrect, that is not how it works.

Sad Professor

Yahew wrote: »

These are the guys used by Apple - google presumably have their own database.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/

Apple stopped using Skyhook a while. They have their own database now.

condra

O.P, don't you think Mac users are capable of looking at Apple Inc objectively? I assure you we are. Mac users are often some of the fiercest critics of Apples business moves.

Most of us just like products and software that are well designed.

Hobbes

iRock wrote: »

I can certainly understand how you don't see this as a security issue but it is (maybe blown out of proportion but it IS an issue and its the principle that matters).

The only way to get the data is to take the persons device, at which point there are bigger security issues at hand.

conor.hogan.2

Once anyone has physical access to a device, all security is gone.

Also iphone 5?

Also google can delete apps straight of my android phone.

muggyog

You can take off the tin-foil hats now.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

followed by

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1358