So by how could we cut Social Welfare and Public Service pay?

podge3

There have been many, many, many PS pay and welfare bashing threads on here but by how much do we really need to cut both?

Our projected deficit this year will be around €14 billion. PS pay is about €20 billion and our rates are said to be 40% higher here than elsewhere in Europe. If we reduce the rates in some kind of benchmarking process, that'll knock about €6 billion off the pay bill. Obviously a large amount of this €6 billion would be taken back in tax anyway, so lets say its really a €4 billion saving.

Social welfare is much more difficult as countries have different approaches to payments. The basic dole in the UK is about €75 and €90 in Germany but there are many other factors to take into consideration also like medical care etc etc. But lets reduce the overall bill by the same as the PS pay - thats another €6 billion.

I know this is a very simplistic approach but these cuts would almost fix our deficit overnight. Would there be anarchy in the streets if both were to happen?

Will it happen anyway once our dosh runs out in 2013 and we need to go back to the EU/IMF for more?

NotInventedHere

Blah Vlah bleugh! Yet more verbal......

sollar

podge3 wrote: »

There have been many, many, many PS pay and welfare bashing threads on here but by how much do we really need to cut both?

Our projected deficit this year will be around €14 billion. PS pay is about €20 billion?

Could you show where public service pay is projected to cost 20 billion in 2011?

RichardAnd

It's 18 billion as far as I know but I'm open to correction.

Gumbo

RichardAnd wrote: »

It's 18 billion as far as I know but I'm open to correction.

Which is the gross figure, the actual cost of PS pay is in the region of 11-14bn.

Sweenball

If you cut Public Sector pay by 100 per cent it wont make a blind bit of difference.The country is f***ed.

Count Dooku

kceire wrote: »

Which is the gross figure, the actual cost of PS pay is in the region of 11-14bn.

then tax take must be reduced by artificial revenue from PS taxes...

RichardAnd

Sweenball wrote: »

If you cut Public Sector pay by 100 per cent it wont make a blind bit of difference.The country is f***ed.

If everyone had that attitude, it would be.

dan_d

There's at least 2 other threads discussing these 2 items currently open.....

sollar

Count Dooku wrote: »

then tax take must be reduced by artificial revenue from PS taxes...

Thats fine with me. Then quote 28 billion that the country is taking in.

This would be important because then we could see the real costs relative to each other:

Social Welfare............ 21 Billion
Public Sector Pay........ 11 Billion
Public service pensions... 3 billion
Other spending...............10 billion etc etc

This would show clearly where the big costs are and we wouldn't have people under the impression that ps pay was costing the same as social welfare.

Delancey

There is a nasty tendency on these threads for ' welfare bashing ' and to label all people on benefits as ' spongers ' - this is plainly nonsense , that said there are reforms urgently needed in this area and the most obvious candidate is that of Child Benefit.
It is indefensible that this benefit is payed to every family regardless of means - I know families that I would consider wealthy ( as opposed to just comfortable ) that get this payment - the blanket eligibility must end.

Much is made of the headline payment that we are always hearing is so much more than Britain or other EU states - this comparison is facile , the cost of living here is way above other countries plus other states have additional provisions like free universal healthcare that we don't.
We have already seen welfare cuts and will probably see more but don't be surprised to see a significant increase in poverty.

Public sector pay needs reform as opposed to simply cuts - approx a third of the HSE wage bill is spent on premium payments for nights , weekends , etc - this needs looking at.
Gardai working at Dublin Airport as immigration officers were receiving an allowance in excess of 100 Euro a day as they were classed as '' working away from their normal place of work or station '' - this was stopped but it indicates the silly level of premium payments in the Public Service , I would favour tackling these ' perks ' as opposed to slashing base salaries.

Tipp Man

kceire wrote: »

Which is the gross figure, the actual cost of PS pay is in the region of 11-14bn.

11-14 billion. you've given yourself a nice 20-25% buffer there. Sure whats another 3 billion annually

Can anybody acutally prove the number being somewhere between 11-14 billion? Those numbers were thrown about on another thread and from what i can remember they were only back on an envelope calculations that somebody had done

sollar

Delancey wrote: »

Public sector pay needs reform as opposed to simply cuts - approx a third of the HSE wage bill is spent on premium payments for nights , weekends , etc - this needs looking at.
Gardai working at Dublin Airport as immigration officers were receiving an allowance in excess of 100 Euro a day as they were classed as '' working away from their normal place of work or station '' - this was stopped but it indicates the silly level of premium payments in the Public Service , I would favour tackling these ' perks ' as opposed to slashing base salaries.

I agree with you. There is some serious money spent on rubbish like you mention above.

rodento

Very little been said about the semi private sector:eek:

Reduce cost's here would have an effect on everyday household bills

Also the good old pensioners need to take their share of the pain and as for the mimimum wage... If everyone needs to reduce costs can anyone tell me why this is going up:rolleyes:

rodento

Have to add, with all the know it alls talking about how we can't afford the PS, what about the banks, why not shut the lot of them down as they are all insolvant:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Think of all the tax payers saving on wages, bonus's and rents

sollar

Tipp Man wrote: »

Sure whats another 3 billion annually

The same could be said for the OP with his 20 Billion

Tipp Man wrote: »

Can anybody acutally prove the number being somewhere between 11-14 billion? Those numbers were thrown about on another thread and from what i can remember they were only back on an envelope calculations that somebody had done

That was me and i was calling for someone to get the figures. Surely some professional journalist or so could produce them. If only to get a better idea of what it is costing the state the most.

I have no doubt that welfare is the elephant in the room. But to read our papers people would be under the impression that PS pay was the overwhemling problem.

Don't forget too that throwing public servants on the dole will reduce PS Pay but will increase Social Welfare some. Win - Lose. But taking someone of welfare and back to work will reduce welfare and increase tax take. Win - Win.

tayto lover

Yet another silly P.S. bashing thread. Why not just refuse to pay them anything at all and just open up soup kitchens. A measure like that might satisfy some of you. (and i am not a |P.S. worker).

noodler

sollar wrote: »

Could you show where public service pay is projected to cost 20 billion in 2011?

In Gross terms the Pay and Pensions Bill is projected to be 18.5bn in 2011.

kceire wrote: »

Which is the gross figure, the actual cost of PS pay is in the region of 11-14bn.

The net cost of PS pay alone in 2010 is 15bn (the department have not put a figure on the net forecast for 2011 in any document I have found). You are probably assuming it will decrease in 2011 due to redundancies but I wager this will be offset by increments.

The New Pay and Pensions bill last year was 17.3bn. The pensions component of this will almost certainly increase due to the redundancies mentioned above.

The peak of the Net pay and pensions bill was in 2008 at 18.7bn, in 2010 it was 17.3bn. I don't think it is going to fall in 2011 personally.

WalterMitty

in the nirvana of the socialist types, scandinavia, the public sector workers get a lot less pay than here but pay a lot more taxes and cost of living is similar. But the public sector here dont want that system as they would suffer massive cuts in their standard of living.

Dont forget to include the increasingly large numbers of public servants on pensions , many not even 65. No public pension should be more than 40k a year.

caseyann

Thousands of gardai are being deployed in each security operation. Although the additional cost of security is not known, it is expected to be in excess of €25m

Worrying about cutting peoples lives in half and there is a bill coming in that amount,Get the priorities straight people :rolleyes:

noodler

caseyann wrote: »

Thousands of gardai are being deployed in each security operation. Although the additional cost of security is not known, it is expected to be in excess of €25m

Worrying about cutting peoples lives in half and there is a bill coming in that amount,Get the priorities straight people :rolleyes:

I honestly think that is unbelievably short-sighted.

A visit from the royal representative of our largest trading partner is important.

A visit from the most powerful person on the planet and leader of our largest contributor of FDI is also incredibly important.

It is a huge bill and I hope it can be trimmed somewhat but any suggestion they should not come is incredibly short-sighted imo.

tayto lover

noodler wrote: »

I honestly think that is unbelievably short-sighted.

A visit from the royal representative of our largest trading partner is important.

A visit from the most powerful person on the planet and leader of our largest contributor of FDI is also incredibly important.

It is a huge bill and I hope it can be trimmed somewhat but any suggestion they should not come is incredibly short-sighted imo.

The visits of President Obama and the Queen might generate a lot of interest in Ireland and be a big benefit to tourism. We could do with an injection of revenue.

erictheviking1

What we need on these boards is an injection of intelligence.
One thing that really stands out on these moronic threads is that on top of spouting misinformed BS a lot of the begrudgers can't even f***ing spell.:D
Whats really funny is the fact that a lot of people are so incredibly deluded they think that any savings made will be passed on to them in their wage packets...How f***ing naive is that? A lot of you must be very young.......

noodler

erictheviking1 wrote: »

What we need on these boards is an injection of intelligence.
One thing that really stands out on these moronic threads is that on top of spouting misinformed BS a lot of the begrudgers can't even f***ing spell.:D
Whats really funny is the fact that a lot of people are so incredibly deluded they think that any savings made will be passed on to them in their wage packets...How f***ing naive is that? A lot of you must be very young.......

Yeah....good point...well made..:rolleyes:

Actually, what was your point?

Head The Wall

noodler wrote: »

Yeah....good point...well made..:rolleyes:

Actually, what was your point?

He was trying to tell us that people who post things here that he doesn't agree with are all students.