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Seriously mean employer

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  • 20-04-2011 12:04pm
    #1
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭


    I have a close friend (genuinely) who works in a small retail chain on the outskirts of Dublin.

    A few months ago, the HR manager of her company announced that there was no longer any paid sick leave available to staff.

    That was bad enough, but what happened then was worse. My friend and another colleague were held up at knife-point in the shop. They obviously needed and deserved some time to recover from their trauma.

    They were denied any paid time off whatever, even though this was clearly something they needed on foot of what happened to them on the job.

    My friend may have some legal recourse in theory, but she feels she would probably lose her job on some other pretext if she pushed her complaint, so she is going to just put up with it.

    Has anyone else come across situations like this? Any comments or suggestions welcome.


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    #2
    stargazer 68
    Registered Users Posts: 5,091 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    There are quite a few companies who dont pay sick leave. I know a large travel company that never did. Legalities of it I dont know though as I would have thought you had to have some sick days allowed with pay.


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    #3
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

    Irish companies have no obligation to pay you for sick leave.


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    #4
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Irish companies have no obligation to pay you for sick leave.
    Irish companies may not have a legal obligation to pay it, but removing it from existing employees whose job provides paid sick leave to them would likely prove to be a change in their terms of employment and thus making it a problem. They'd need to get agreement from the employees to do this.


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    #5
    infamous
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭infamous


    "Irish companies have no obligation to pay you for sick leave."

    And rightly so, my previous job paid sick pay and it was abused mondays were a non runner for many employees, had one colleague who would take note of everyones sick days and make sure her days were inline with others so she was not working more days than anyone else. My current job does not pay sick pay and the level of absenteeism reflects this.


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    #6
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    The company that I work for has no sick pay either - we are contracted to provide a service and we work side by side doing the same job as certain public servants who are entitled to up to 6 months sick leave every 36 months. One of my work colleagues has taken at least 12 months sick leave in the last 6 years - she is of course working for the state while in my 7 years here, i have only taken about 3 sick days - all unpaid, because the company that i work for is contracted by the state. She also has a substantial pension. I only have a small pension plan that I started and contributed to myself.

    I'm not complaining. I'm dam glad to have a job. And I like my job - which is a bonus. But as you can see, sick pay is a bonus, not a right.


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    #7
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    Irish companies may not have a legal obligation to pay it, but removing it from existing employees whose job provides paid sick leave to them would likely prove to be a change in their terms of employment and thus making it a problem. They'd need to get agreement from the employees to do this.

    Totally true, but judging from the description of the employer, I would be shocked if the employees have a written contract. Actually, re-reading it, if they have a HR Manager then they may well have contracts, but if the OP's friend kicks up a fuss about changes in her contract she'll find herself 'managed out' in short order, I'd imagine.


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    #8
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    My point is not simply the lack of sick pay. It is the miserable way my friend was treated.

    She was held up at Knifepoint and traumatised, yet she was not given a single day of paid leave to recuperate from something that had happened to her in the course of her duties.

    If anyone here thinks that is acceptable, then I am very sorry I brought the subject up.


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    #9
    elaney
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭elaney


    Thats disgusting the way your friend was treated. I worked in a petrol station while at college. One of the employees was robbed at gun point.He was given nearly two weeks paid leave and also asked him if he would like to speak to a councellor which they agreed to pay for. I dont know if they have any rights but they should ring citizens information.


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    #10
    golden8
    Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭golden8


    Think you need to get advise in what your friend is entitled as it is not a normal sick leave since they have been traumatised during working for the employer.


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    #11
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    She could look into approaching a solicitor and suing for a breach of health and safety but I have no idea what law they would be breaking. I have just seen results of cases in the paper.


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    #12
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    My point is not simply the lack of sick pay. It is the miserable way my friend was treated.
    They do sound like a miserable shower to work for but the only area that she'll likely have any legal basis for complaint is the sick pay issue. It's not that we don't care it's just that we can't really make any viable suggestions based on the information presented.


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    #13
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    OK, but I would also be interested to hear if anything on this level of meanness has happened elsewhere, especially since the crash started, and now that we are being told we are "lucky to have a job" at all.


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    #14
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Your friend should contact the Health & Safty Authority.

    No harm in reading their literature either. Perhaps your friend should request support and counselling as suggested in the documentation. If they refuse, legal advice may be in order.


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    #15
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    OK, but I would also be interested to hear if anything on this level of meanness has happened elsewhere, especially since the crash started, and now that we are being told we are "lucky to have a job" at all.

    Since the crash started, I am hearing more and more stories of terrible treatment people are receiving in the workplace. You're not "lucky to have a job" if every day is torture. Or "lucky to have a job" if you have a stomach turning scuzz bag for a manager.

    The reason companies who have high absenteeism, have such high absenteeism is down to how badly they treat their staff. Or how badly they're managed. Good managers have low absentee rates. They fire the piss takers and avoid sickening the people who aren't taking the piss.


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    #16
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    I agree that employers that pay sick pay are taken advantage of by some of their employees.

    I used to work for a company that paid up to 12 sick days per annum and there were employees that carefully figured out their "entitlement" and made sure every one was taken.

    However, In you're friends situation if she was held up and wasn't given allowances for the trauma of the situation then I would take it further.


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    #17
    KilOit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭KilOit


    I work in the public sector and will admit that it's taken advantage of big time, people take their allocated sick days each year, and 1 girl came back to work after the usual 6 month sick leave stint 3 weeks ago. it's sicking, and i will not stoop to that level, and have yet to take a sick day in 3 years there... well i did go home once, but least i made the effort :)


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