Godfather part 2 - question

philstar

Was watching Godfather part 2 last night and found it a wee bit hard to follow..can some please tell me who ordered the shooting on Michael Corleone house?.....was it the old jew guy or that old guy with the moustache Frankie?

gent9662

It was the Jew guy I think, Hyman Roth.

bonerm

spoiler etc. This might explain the confusion.

wiki wrote:

Michael meets with Hyman Roth in Roth's home near Miami, and tells him that he believes Pentangeli was responsible for the assassination attempt. Traveling to Pentangeli's home, Michael lets Pentangeli know that Roth was actually behind it and that Michael has a plan to deal with him, but needs Pentangeli to cooperate with the Rosato brothers in order to keep Roth off guard.

rednik

It was Roth ok, in revenge for the murder of Moe Green who Roth grew up with and was a very close friend.

Doublin

Fredo was the traitor who helped (unknowingly) on the inside, The hitmen went sent by Hyman Roth and Johnnie Ola

philstar

dclane wrote: »

It was the Jew guy I think, Hyman Roth.

^^^^^^^

Yes thats what Michael said to Frankie in the house.

But in the next scene when Frankie goes to make the peace with the Rosato brothers in the bar....the guy who attacks him from behind with the cheesewire says..."Michael Corleone says hello"

which i don't understand does Michael Corleone order the attack on Frankie in the bar?

Sad Professor

philstar wrote: »

^^^^^^^

Yes thats what Michael said to Frankie in the house.

But in the next scene when Frankie goes to make the peace with the Rosato brothers in the bar....the guy who attacks him from behind with the cheesewire says..."Michael Corleone says hello"

which i don't understand does Michael Corleone order the attack on Frankie in the bar?

No, that wasn't Michael. Afaik that was orchestrated by Roth to make Frankie think Michael wanted him dead. As a result, Frankie decides to give evidence against Michael at the FBI hearings.

irishh_bob

philstar wrote: »

^^^^^^^

Yes thats what Michael said to Frankie in the house.

But in the next scene when Frankie goes to make the peace with the Rosato brothers in the bar....the guy who attacks him from behind with the cheesewire says..."Michael Corleone says hello"

which i don't understand does Michael Corleone order the attack on Frankie in the bar?

the goons claiming they were sent by michael corleone was just another part of the deception by roth , was all part of the set up which resulted in michael having to appear before a senate hearing committe , pentangelli having believed michael tried to kill him , agreed to testify , only to do a u turn upon seeing his disgusted brother in court

great movie although IMO not as good as the original , godfather 2 is too fat and tries to cram in too much in the way of historical events , cuba etc

philstar

Sad Professor wrote: »

No, that wasn't Michael. Afaik that was orchestrated by Roth to make Frankie think Michael wanted him dead. As a result, Frankie decides to give evidence against Michael at the FBI hearings.

So from the outset it was never they're intention to kill Frankie but just to frighten him? and the fact that the cop came on the scene was just quincedental?

ChunkyLover_53

philstar wrote: »

So from the outset it was never they're intention to kill Frankie but just to frighten him? and the fact that the cop came on the scene was just quincedental?

Bada bing you gots it!

Would love to have seen more of De Niro playing the early days of Vito in New York. Such a damn fine film.

paky

philstar wrote: »

So from the outset it was never they're intention to kill Frankie but just to frighten him? and the fact that the cop came on the scene was just quincedental?

perhaps it was just incase the murder attempt failed, which it did.

im not sure michael really knows who ordered the hit on him and is sort of feeling around to see if he can draw any hints. but yes it was hyman roth, the jew

Sad Professor

philstar wrote: »

So from the outset it was never they're intention to kill Frankie but just to frighten him? and the fact that the cop came on the scene was just quincedental?

Hmmmm, it's a good question. I'm not sure. Now that I think about it, it doesn't really make sense that Roth could have planned a failed hit on Frankie. Unless the cop wasn't really a cop but one of his guys. But that is a bit too elaborate.

Maybe paky is right though. I mean, Michael told Roth that he thought Pentangeli was behind the attack on his house, right? But Roth isn't an idiot, he knows Michael is just feeling around, so maybe he ordered the hit on Frankie to prevent the truth coming out. However, as a precaution, he told them to say "Michael says hello". He couldn't have predicted what happened, but he'd seen enough attempted hits go wrong to take that extra precaution and it worked out brilliantly.

Or it's just a plot hole.

Doublin

philstar wrote: »

So from the outset it was never they're intention to kill Frankie but just to frighten him? and the fact that the cop came on the scene was just quincedental?

I think the way to look at the Roth character is greed & power as his motivators. Pentangeli was in the way of his Rosato brothers. Michael was in the way of him being number 1. The Hyman Roth character is based loosely on Meyer Lansky, who was very paranoid, saw potential enemies around every corner & believed in taking them out before they were a threat to him.

The Moe Green character is based on Bugsy Siegal but he was killed in LA not Vegas. But I don't think he said it was a revenge thing in the film. I remember him saying he accepted what happened, didn't question it & moved on..

irishh_bob

Doublin wrote: »

I think the way to look at the Roth character is greed & power as his motivators. Pentangeli was in the way of his Rosato brothers. Michael was in the way of him being number 1. The Hyman Roth character is based loosely on Meyer Lansky, who was very paranoid, saw potential enemies around every corner & believed in taking them out before they were a threat to him.

The Moe Green character is based on Bugsy Siegal but he was killed in LA not Vegas. But I don't think he said it was a revenge thing in the film. I remember him saying he accepted what happened, didn't question it & moved on..

some useless trivia , the actor who played the role of moe greene in the godfather provides the voice for the charecther of roger myers ( he of itchy and scratchy fame ) in the simpsons

WHIP IT!

irishh_bob wrote: »

some useless trivia , the actor who played the role of moe greene in the godfather provides the voice for the charecther of roger myers ( he of itchy and scratchy fame ) in the simpsons

HOLY F*CK!! It IS him, correct!

huh... thanks for that, gas

Suspiria79

I talked to Barzini

Doublin

irishh_bob wrote: »

great movie although IMO not as good as the original , godfather 2 is too fat and tries to cram in too much in the way of historical events , cuba etc

I rank them 2, 3 then 1 at the moment, because I think the Michael character was developed brilliantly in 2 & 3; while he went through a lot of changes in 1, I think they were developed & deepened greatly in 2, he made a lot more choices on his own towards his path to darkness. 3 was then the repercussion's & damnation for the path he followed. 3 is slated, but if you just watch it for Pacino, it's a very good end to the story. Last grasps at redemption, love & change, then the taking of his only real emotional connection in the world was the way it should have ended.

But I love all three and pick which one to watch according to my humour at the time. I know everything that'll happen, could probably speak along with the whole dialogue in time while watching, but class movies are class movies - you can watch them time and time again & still enjoy!

irishh_bob

Doublin wrote: »

I rank them 2, 3 then 1 at the moment, because I think the Michael character was developed brilliantly in 2 & 3; while he went through a lot of changes in 1, I think they were developed & deepened greatly in 2, he made a lot more choices on his own towards his path to darkness. 3 was then the repercussion's & damnation for the path he followed. 3 is slated, but if you just watch it for Pacino, it's a very good end to the story. Last grasps at redemption, love & change, then the taking of his only real emotional connection in the world was the way it should have ended.

But I love all three and pick which one to watch according to my humour at the time. I know everything that'll happen, could probably speak along with the whole dialogue in time while watching, but class movies are class movies - you can watch them time and time again & still enjoy!

godfather 3 is one of the worst movies ive ever seen but then again i cant stand anything with andy garcia in it

paky

irishh_bob wrote: »

godfather 3 is one of the worst movies ive ever seen but then again i cant stand anything with andy garcia in it

i absolutely agree but if they made it an epic they would of wanted a part 4