Experiences with a student dentist at a Dental Hospital

marti8

So, I'm attending a dental hospital and the student dentist who's working on me isn't, eh, lets say exactly the best. About 6 weeks ago he filled a tooth and I was in pain with it from the time he did it, when I went back the filling was removed and he was cleaning it up or whatever and said he saw "rot" (his word) and that the pulp was exposed and that I'd need an xray and root canal. Ok then, eh, not quite. He didn't want to say it to the qualified dentist because he was "afraid of him".......So, he simply filled it with a temporary filling (even though he said he saw rot and that the pulp was exposed) The temp filing fell out a few days ago, will have to go to their emergency clinic over the coming days. Now I don't want to get the guy in trouble but tbh if that is how he acts then maybe he shouldn't even be a dentist.

When I asked him why he choose dentistry he said he didn't know anything about it before but a career guidance counsellor said it would be a good career.......f****** hell. He was delighted to tell me that it's ok if he fails some things as he doesn't have to pass everything to qualify. Yeah, great stuff........

The qualified dentist did take a very quick look at it (no doubt he was depending on the student to tell him if he saw anything wrong - which he didn't tell him, even though he did see something wrong!) and did tell him to put in the tempoarary filling but the student told me that obviously the dentist didn't see what he had seen. Then why don't you f***** tell him, I felt like saying, didn't, too polite for my own good. What would you do in such a situation? My teeth and health have to come first moreso than whether he may or may not get in trouble so think I'll just have to mention to the dentist what the student said he saw and how he didn't do anything about it other than cover up the issue.

He also filled a lower tooth, a pre-molar, and the filling is f****** grey! Not white, grey. He filled it with amalgam and covered it with composite. What I can't understand is why he used amalgam at all, why not simply use composite (white)? Or perhaps he didn't use enough composite and used too much amalgam? That filling is at the front of the tooth. The other pre-molar which he also filled is now sore when I bite don on it. Happy days, eh.

Whenever I ask him about something he mumbles away and is very unclear. English isn't his first language which makes it somewhat harder to understand him. I've noticed that the qualified dentist can be a bit impatient when dealing with him and has already apologised to me about the student once or twice.

I also mentioned to the student that another molar which already has a huge amalgam filling in it, has been there for years, is sore - he simply looked at it and said it "looks fine", eh, maybe an xray is needed....maybe roots need work on them? Nah, even though it's sore it "looks fine". Pathetic if this is the standard of sudent they are turning out. I don't think it is, I think the vast majority are probably just fine, looks like I got stuck with the minority.....I certainly won't be going back to that student, will have to switch student if I can, was told I could when enquired in general. What a mess.

ballsymchugh

usually, the best treatment you can get is in a dental hospital. i've no problem telling patients that. the success of root fillings done by students is comparable with specialist endodontists.

in your case, looks like you may have gotten the one who "the college takes the money that overseas governments pay and ship him back when he's finished". you should mention it to a demonstrator though. why are you keeping quiet on the matter if you feel like something is going wrong? venting on an internet forum isn't the way to approach this at all.

marti8

ballsymchugh wrote: »

usually, the best treatment you can get is in a dental hospital. i've no problem telling patients that. the success of root fillings done by students is comparable with specialist endodontists.

in your case, looks like you may have gotten the one who "the college takes the money that overseas governments pay and ship him back when he's finished". you should mention it to a demonstrator though. why are you keeping quiet on the matter if you feel like something is going wrong? venting on an internet forum isn't the way to approach this at all.

Yeah, you're probably right. It is in a way my own stupidity for not having taken the issue up with the qualified dentist, thing is I didn't want to get the student in trouble. He did explain to me how much money his government pays for his education...jeses....I worked it out that it's about quarter of a million euro just to train him up, when you include the living allowance etc they also pay. Unreal. There's no bloody way I'm going back to him. He was trying to tell me my case is a difficult one....yeah right, because I may need root canals? I did have root canal work done there already last Jan or Feb,while the student was supposed to do it for some reason the dentist came over and did it, I guess that either the student didn't know how to or the dentist didn't have enough confidence in him to do it on his own. The roots were removed and a filling put in, has been fine since although it still needs to be cleaned and the roots filled or whatever the terminology is.

The last time I was there the student needed to give me an injection but couldn't find the right line or whatever the word is, he injected but nothing so the dentist had to come over and do it again telling me "he should have been able to find the line", I think he said line? Frightening to think that this guy will be working on peoples mouths.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

You should really talk to the supervisor on the clinics. God knows when I was a student not everything wnet to plan (nor does it to this day) but usually the students are trying to do the best they can for their patients.

Next time your in, ask to talk to the supervisor, if you not happy explain it in a calm manner, without any colourful language. I am sure the supervisor will sort it out.

marti8

Cyrus Shapely Strictness wrote: »

You should really talk to the supervisor on the clinics. God knows when I was a student not everything wnet to plan (nor does it to this day) but usually the students are trying to do the best they can for their patients.

Next time your in, ask to talk to the supervisor, if you not happy explain it in a calm manner, without any colourful language. I am sure the supervisor will sort it out.

Yes, I plan to do that. Will probably phone and explain that I simply need to chnage students. Hope he doesn't get in trouble but I also have to think of myself, was thinking too much about the poor student and not enough about myself. I know not everything can go to plan and mistakes can of course happen but when someone purposefully omits information and tries to cover something up then that's somewhat different I think. He in a way didn't give a feck about the patient and all because he was "afraid" of the dentist/supervisor. Not good enough.

Nonoperational

Fair play to you for being so considerate. I'd go back and get everything checked to a standard your happy with. Definitely tell the supervisor. In the long run the student might learn from it. That's what I'd like to happen and I'm a student (not dent) myself.

boreds11

Out of curiosity are student dentists free?

marti8

[QUOT.E=boreds11;71785288]Out of curiosity are student dentists free?[/QUOTE]

No, you pay but not much. A filling is only a tenner. Root canal on a molar, 3 roots, is €160. An initial consultation costs about €35. Xrays are about €10 each. Big difference when compared to a qualified dentist, fillings about €70 but maybe upto €100. A molar root canal about €700.

I was back there yesterday but to see an oral surgeon, was referred by the HSE so didn't have to pay, they are doing up a splint for me, for bruxism. Costs covered by the HSE luckily. Seems I have TMJD according to my local dentist.

marti8

gpf101 wrote: »

Fair play to you for being so considerate. I'd go back and get everything checked to a standard your happy with. Definitely tell the supervisor. In the long run the student might learn from it. That's what I'd like to happen and I'm a student (not dent) myself.

I just didn't want to get him in trouble that's all, I think he's not really happy doing dentistry and seems at a bit of a loss or something so I didn't want to add to it by causing another problem but I really can't just sit on my hands while he works away on my mouth. Hpefully he won't get into too much trouble and yeah, I guess that's how you learn, trial and error....only he can trial and error with someone else, lol. Poor someone else, that's all I can say.

ballsymchugh

marti8 wrote: »

The last time I was there the student needed to give me an injection but couldn't find the right line or whatever the word is, he injected but nothing so the dentist had to come over and do it again telling me "he should have been able to find the line", I think he said line? Frightening to think that this guy will be working on peoples mouths.

i wouldn't worry about that. took me ages to get a block injection to work. it's a blind injection based on what's around the place. it's like throwing a dart between the 1 and 5 hoping to hit the 20, but not sure where the 20 is exactly even though you've a fair idea.
still happens occasionally!

marti8

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i wouldn't worry about that. took me ages to get a block injection to work. it's a blind injection based on what's around the place. it's like throwing a dart between the 1 and 5 hoping to hit the 20, but not sure where the 20 is exactly even though you've a fair idea.
still happens occasionally!

Tbh him not being able to do the block is the very least of my worries, lol. No way I'm letting him next or near my mouth again. Sorry if it gets him in trouble (hopefully it won't) but bout time I think about my own wellbeing. I won't specify the problems I'll just say I would like a different student but if they ask why I'll have to tell them.

harpsman

My advice would be to phone before your next appointment and explain that you ve lost confidence in person treating you and ask if its possible to see another person.Happens all the time in dentistry.
Dont think student will get in trouble-might even help him if he learns by his mistakes.

Big_G

I'm just wondering why you're giving out about a dental student? Is it because he's not as good as a qualified dentist? Newsflash - he's a student. You haven't said anything here that concerns me in any way except that the student is revealing personal information to a patient (with regard to his desires about dentistry), I find that slightly unprofessional.

You are paying less because you are seeing someone who is learning their profession, learning means making mistakes. Hell, the most experienced dentist in the world misses a block every now and then, I was even being supervised by an oral surgeon who didn't just miss the block, but gave the patient a facial palsy aswell (it was temporary).

If you're worried about the quality of care you are receiving you have two choices, complain and get a new student (happens all the time, although you risk getting someone who is still learning), or pony up the dough and see a qualified dentist.

I just want to say that there is a very high standard of care provided in dental hospitals. The main disadvantage is that treatment tends to take longer. It is supervised by highly qualified professionals at every step of the way (to the point of annoyance in some cases). All I can say is you can't have it every which way. It comes back to the old fast/cheap/good triangle - pick two (I actually think that picking one is more appropriate) but never all three.

marti8

Big_G wrote: »

I'm just wondering why you're giving out about a dental student? Is it because he's not as good as a qualified dentist? Newsflash - he's a student. You haven't said anything here that concerns me in any way except that the student is revealing personal information to a patient (with regard to his desires about dentistry), I find that slightly unprofessional.

You are paying less because you are seeing someone who is learning their profession, learning means making mistakes. Hell, the most experienced dentist in the world misses a block every now and then, I was even being supervised by an oral surgeon who didn't just miss the block, but gave the patient a facial palsy aswell (it was temporary).

If you're worried about the quality of care you are receiving you have two choices, complain and get a new student (happens all the time, although you risk getting someone who is still learning), or pony up the dough and see a qualified dentist.

I just want to say that there is a very high standard of care provided in dental hospitals. The main disadvantage is that treatment tends to take longer. It is supervised by highly qualified professionals at every step of the way (to the point of annoyance in some cases). All I can say is you can't have it every which way. It comes back to the old fast/cheap/good triangle - pick two (I actually think that picking one is more appropriate) but never all three.

I don't really understand your reply, you say I can complain and get a new student but then go onto say maybe I'll get one who's still learning, hmmm, by definition all students are still learning as is the student I was seeing - so you lost me there?

And if you had read what I wrote I said the block and whether he could administer it properly or not was "the very least of my worries". As to why I am complaining about a dental student? No nothing to do with the fact that he isn't a qualified dentist - hmmm, how about the fact that he said he saw rot and exposed pulp and told me I needed an xray and root canal and then refused to inform the supervising dentist of that instead covering it with a temporary filling? Does that do for starters? But as you already stated that "doesn't concern you in any way". Obviously then you think it is fine for a student dentist to conceal information like that and continue as though nothing is wrong.

How about the fact that one filling towards the front, on a pre-molar, is actually grey and not white? I'm sure even though he's a student he should be able to fill a tooth so the filling actually matches the colour of the rest of the tooth or maybe you think that is asking too much?

Big_G

My main point is this, when you go to a teaching hospital for treatment provided by people who are learning, you may have to endure a few mistakes. If you feel that those mistakes are unforgivable you have the option of requesting a different set of mistakes at your convenience or going for treatment to a fully qualified dentist.

Having been through the hell that is dental school, I refuse to pass judgement on this dental student from second hand information, which is what I feel you are seeking here.

marti8

Big_G wrote: »

My main point is this, when you go to a teaching hospital for treatment provided by people who are learning, you may have to endure a few mistakes. If you feel that those mistakes are unforgivable you have the option of requesting a different set of mistakes at your convenience or going for treatment to a fully qualified dentist.

Having been through the hell that is dental school, I refuse to pass judgement on this dental student from second hand information, which is what I feel you are seeking here.

That's fine. Yes, it is a learning enviornment and yes mistakes can be made but I'm not solely talking about a student making a mistake, I'm also referring to the deliberate cover up of information which has let the patient, yours truly, blowing in the wind. I didn't want to have to change student, I gave it consideration and time and I even gave him the benefit of the doubt but all in all I am going to have to.

I mean come one, seriously, it's not acceptable from my POV for a student to say to a patient they have rot and exposed pulp and then to do nothing about it other than hide that info from the supervising dentist because he's "afraid of him" and pop on a temporary filling which has since fallen out. Simply because I'm getting treatment from a student doesn't mean anything goes. If whatever other student I see makes mistakes so be it, as you said that's how it goes and that's true but hopefully whatever other student I see will have a little more common sense than to hide things from the supervising dentist.

Big_G

As I said, what you are saying may or may not be the case, but you won't get me to pass judgement based on second hand information. Maybe others here would like to throw stones? Especially the weekend that's in it

marti8

Big_G wrote: »

As I said, what you are saying may or may not be the case, but you won't get me to pass judgement based on second hand information. Maybe others here would like to throw stones? Especially the weekend that's in it

Totally upto you whether you believe what I am saying or not, makes no difference to me whether someone believes what I'm saying or otherwise I am simply relating the facts by all means reach (or not) your own conclusion.

Big_G

I believe you, I just don't want to engage in judgement. I feel the problem is simple. You've had an issue with a student, the solution is straghtfoward, either you change something or you continue the way things are. Things will probably turn out for the best.

I think that poor decisions can be made by a person when they are under extreme pressure to perform and any slight mistake is nitpicked and used to test a persons self-belief. Anyone could make those similar mistakes. Doesn't make them right, just means that they are understandable. Even with that, if one felt that a student wasn't going to change/learn from mistake, one could make a change. That is all.

ps anyone who knows me that is reading this will think I have gone soft in the head. Don't worry, I'm ok.

marti8

Big_G wrote: »

I believe you, I just don't want to engage in judgement. I feel the problem is simple. You've had an issue with a student, the solution is straghtfoward, either you change something or you continue the way things are. Things will probably turn out for the best.

I think that poor decisions can be made by a person when they are under extreme pressure to perform and any slight mistake is nitpicked and used to test a persons self-belief. Anyone could make those similar mistakes. Doesn't make them right, just means that they are understandable. Even with that, if one felt that a student wasn't going to change/learn from mistake, one could make a change. That is all.

ps anyone who knows me that is reading this will think I have gone soft in the head. Don't worry, I'm ok.

I did give it consideration and will have to change student. Hopefully that student will learn to stand up for himself a bit better and not compromise a patients wellbeing simply to keep his head down while trying to avoid having to approach or even challenge a supervisor. Time will tell I guess.

opinion guy

Frankly I think you shoudl complain about the student. Some of the things you are describing to us sound immoral and unprofessional. Certainly not telling the teacher about some 'rot' he saw because he is afraid of him and lashing in a temporary filling is unethical (and not to mention spineless). Heonstly - do you think he shold be treating the public with this attitude ?

But by all means do complain but also point out that he was afraid of the teacher - teacher should not have his pupils so afraid of him they are doing **** like this.

ballsymchugh

incomplete removal of decay is pretty common if there's a chance of pulpal exposure. the most important part is cleaning the amelo dentinal junction so that it won't spread anymore. a good filling will stop the decay from spreading.

marti8

opinion guy wrote: »

Frankly I think you shoudl complain about the student. Some of the things you are describing to us sound immoral and unprofessional. Certainly not telling the teacher about some 'rot' he saw because he is afraid of him and lashing in a temporary filling is unethical (and not to mention spineless). Heonstly - do you think he shold be treating the public with this attitude ?

But by all means do complain but also point out that he was afraid of the teacher - teacher should not have his pupils so afraid of him they are doing **** like this.

Yeah, I'll have to complain alright, really didn't want to have to but at the same time don't want to risk dealing with that student further. It was the supervisor who told him to put in a temporary filling after a very, very quick look in my mouth. At that stage the student should have said: I saw x, y or z but he didn't. Didn't because as he told me he's afraid to - it's no good for him being like that hwne he hopes to be a dentist. Dental school is pretty tough I expect so he needs to, well, toughen up a little.

I was supposed too go back there already but haven't as last week after getting mould done for a splint the next morning (when I'd planned on returning for a temp filling replacement - it's fallen out) the corners of mouth were all crackked and had blisters on em and the inside looked all white, like dead skin - my doc thinks it's a reaction to the stuff used to take the mould, as does the dental hospital when I phoned them. It's slowly clearing up now. Once cleared will head back for a replacement temp filling.

ballsymchugh

could be super aids?

marti8

ballsymchugh wrote: »

incomplete removal of decay is pretty common if there's a chance of pulpal exposure. the most important part is cleaning the amelo dentinal junction so that it won't spread anymore. a good filling will stop the decay from spreading.

It wasn't that there was a "chance" of exposed pulp, the pulp "was" eposed according tot he dentist and that in turn was what was causing the pain I was getting - according tot he student, and I can simply only relate what he told me, but according to him I needed an xray and root canal. Anyway, will be heading back to get a temp filling next week at their early morning emergency clinic. On ponstan from my doc at present to deal with the pain.

marti8

ballsymchugh wrote: »

could be super aids?

Hey, you said you were clean

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Right think this thread has run its course and really the advice is given. Locked Marti8 start a new thread if you want to update us later.