Shifting, Shifting, What's the best way for shifting!?

TinyExplosions

So, the touring bike project is coming along nicely, but I'm getting very confused and indecisive as to how to go about shifting on the damn thing! A couple of points that have been decided are:

• I will be using a MTB rear derailleur and cassette (Most Likely Deore XT 9speed)
• I will be using either a MTB front derailleur, or a road triple depending on shifting options
• I will be using drops, not flat, moustache, butterfly or any other type of beardy bars

STi's, while my preferred option are out, because they are expensive, and finding one to do 9 speed seems next to impossible unless I go Tiagra, and I'm too much of a snob for that, as I want hard wearing, easy to fix stuff.

That seems to leave me with three options:

1. Bar End Shifters: not too expensive, can get indexed 9speed, (though I think the front would be friction), but they seem quite awkward to me, but I am open to correction
2. Down Tube: Cheap again, and can be indexed both front and back (I think), as well as being turned to friction if any problems occur
3. Some form of bracketry allowing me to use thumb shifters (not sure if this even exists, or is practical or even a good idea)

What do you guys reccommend/think would work best (will consider anything, no matter how arcane it seems at first)

penexpers

I have bar end shifters that are friction at the rear are I really like them. Cheap as chips and no fussing around with indexing. Don't forget that on a touring bike, you won't be shifting as often.

thebouldwhacker

TinyExplosions wrote: »

STi's, while my preferred option are out, because they are expensive, and finding one to do 9 speed seems next to impossible unless I go Tiagra, and I'm too much of a snob for that,

Its a touring bike not a racer, your shallow pregidous is misplaced. That said I have Tiagra on my tourer so I may be some what biased.

The cheapest and easiest option all round are down tube shifters but they are a pain in the ass, sdi's were invented out of necessity I reckon and while they are great on a vintage bike I think for a practical bike like a tourer they are just too painful.
I know some of the more serious touring cyclists are going for bar end shifters as they wont break as easy a sti's if you crash, but I'm not convinced about this argument, I think it may be more or a trend.
I'm not sure how thumb shifters would look/work unless you just put them on the flat of the hbars but it sounds messy to me. My last tourer was a flat bar which I found perfect for slow touring, the shifters were grand but not sure I'd put them on a drop bar unless there was a very specific reason like a genetically based preference to involve your thumbs in the gear shifting process (if this is the case you could always go for Sora shifters)
For me, I am more than happy with my Tiagra sti's, they look and work perfect, I'm on the road for 5 days over easter, I'll certainly post up if there were any issues like people pointing at my Tiagra set up.
Hope this helps, what frame are you using btw, pics?

feck sake lads

i also use tiagra 9 speed sti shifters excellent piece of kit .
you could go for right hand sti shifter and use down tube tube leaver for the front .
on my thorn tourer i use shimano xt m770 front/rear derailleurs /chainset/hubs.drop bars,brooks saddle.
just though i would tell you that :D

Holyboy

Oh I love problems like this, if you want to use S.T.I.s you will have to use a road chain set and front mech but this will work perfectly with a rear MTB mech and cassette, unless you use Campag' shifters, as the front one isn't indexed as such, but you would have to use a Campag' rear mech and may be limited on the large ratio of your cassete, I do like bar end shifters and a huge amount of tourers have them, maybe slightly annoying to use till you get used to them, the front shift on both bar end and down tube shifters will be friction so either a MTB or road chainset can be used, if you want them on the flats of the bars, these are available http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbies.html never used them or seen a bike with them on, but they are the highest quality, I just don't know what they would be like to use! There is bar end twist grip extensions out there too but maybe that's just being silly:D

Holyboy

Oh should say you can get a converter device if you did want to use a Campag' rear shifter with a Shimano rear mech, maybe it's all getting a bit complicated though, but Campag' shifters are priced well and are a lot easier to service and get parts for than the Shimano S.T.I.s.

cantalach

When I say your question in the list of topics in the forum, I momentarily wondered if this was the kind of advice you were looking for.

TinyExplosions

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Its a touring bike not a racer, your shallow pregidous is misplaced. That said I have Tiagra on my tourer so I may be some what biased.

For me, I am more than happy with my Tiagra sti's, they look and work perfect, I'm on the road for 5 days over easter, I'll certainly post up if there were any issues like people pointing at my Tiagra set up.
Hope this helps, what frame are you using btw, pics?

Indeed, I know it's shallow, but I can't help it! It may well be what I settle on though, as I do like STI's.

Let me know how much ridicule you get though, as that may sway me one way or the other

Holyboy wrote: »

Oh I love problems like this, if you want to use S.T.I.s you will have to use a road chain set and front mech but this will work perfectly with a rear MTB mech and cassette, unless you use Campag' shifters, as the front one isn't indexed as such, but you would have to use a Campag' rear mech and may be limited on the large ratio of your cassete, I do like bar end shifters and a huge amount of tourers have them, maybe slightly annoying to use till you get used to them, the front shift on both bar end and down tube shifters will be friction so either a MTB or road chainset can be used, if you want them on the flats of the bars, these are available http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbies.html never used them or seen a bike with them on, but they are the highest quality, I just don't know what they would be like to use! There is bar end twist grip extensions out there too but maybe that's just being silly:D

Lots of great info there... I think if I went STI, I'd go for front and rear, and I've read that I'll have to use a road front mech, so it'll maybe be a case of seeing what sort of chainrings are compatible... why can't they all just be interchangable though!

cantalach wrote: »

When I say your question in the list of topics in the forum, I momentarily wondered if this was the kind of advice you were looking for.

I wondered how long it'd be before I got that sort of reply

As for the frame, well that'll be posted here in due course, though if anyone wants to guess, it'd be interesting to see who gets it right (the only hint I'll give is that it will be running 700c wheels...)

Holyboy

If you use a compact triple the ratios aren't that different to a hybrid sized chainset but you can always change the rings the P.C.D. is the same as old M.T.B. rings and loads of sizes are available, but it will have to be a road chainset as the space between rings is smaller than M.T.B. ones.

bcmf

I thought that Campagnolo shifters would work with shimano RD but you gotta use a campy cassette as its the amount of cable pull that the shifters pull that is the difference.
campy higher range are rebuildable ( I believe from Centaur up). With the left shifter being mostly enough for triple chainrings.

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

As for the frame, well that'll be posted here in due course, though if anyone wants to guess, it'd be interesting to see who gets it right (the only hint I'll give is that it will be running 700c wheels...)

Does it begin with B?

Holyboy

bcmf wrote: »

I thought that Campagnolo shifters would work with shimano RD but you gotta use a campy cassette as its the amount of cable pull that the shifters pull that is the difference.
campy higher range are rebuildable ( I believe from Centaur up). With the left shifter being mostly enough for triple chainrings.

No they pull in different ways and amount of cable, theres lots of ways around mismatching like replacing the cassette spacers and the pulley thingy which name escapes me right now! Some older Shimano rear mechs can be cable clamped on the wrong side and work some what satisfactory, I say lets all just revert back to friction shifting, then cycling requires more skill, haha.

tawfeeredux

i've been running Veloce 10-speed levers with Shimano XT triple & 105 9-speed on my touring bike for a few years now, no problems. There may be a shim in the rear shifter to make it work with the 9-speed cassette, i'm not sure - I don't recall seeing anything unusual when i re-cabled it a couple of years ago.

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

Does it begin with B?

Nope

tawfeeredux wrote: »

i've been running Veloce 10-speed levers with Shimano XT triple & 105 9-speed on my touring bike for a few years now, no problems. There may be a shim in the rear shifter to make it work with the 9-speed cassette, i'm not sure - I don't recall seeing anything unusual when i re-cabled it a couple of years ago.

Interesting, may have to look into that... Tiagra Shifters at 185 quid seem a little steep...

Lumen

Holyboy wrote: »

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbies.html

Those are brilliant! I have to think of a reason to own some.

tawfeeredux wrote: »

i've been running Veloce 10-speed levers with Shimano XT triple & 105 9-speed on my touring bike for a few years now

Tullio Campagnolo just vomited a little in his grave. :pac:

tawfeeredux

Not sure if you're thinkin of using a handlebar bag, but the Tiagra cables would get in the way also.

el tel

I have a bike with old model 9 speed shimano ultegra but with 10 speed 105 [HTML][/HTML]levers. Have been using this set up for years no problem. Don't think it matters if.the shifters are 'overrated ' so to speak. You get an spare click at the top but thats the height of it.

Coronal

I think you need Di2. Then you can put shifters wherever you want!

Ssh, we can ignore the cost, right?

Canis Lupus

Having just switched from STIs to bar ends my concerns were A: Looks like my knees will hit them and B: they look awkward to shift. I can safely say neither is the case although I still have the odd moment of trying to change gear using the brake lever

I also think they look quite nice but maybe I'm biased

EDIT: Whilst I don't think it would look good and might get in the way of a bar bag on drop bars Thorn/SJScycles do a dura ace conversion that changes the bar ends to thumbies.

Gavin

Why not go to 10 speed ?
10 speed 105 shifters with 10 speed slx or xt derailleurs.

TinyExplosions

Gavin wrote: »

Why not go to 10 speed ?
10 speed 105 shifters with 10 speed slx or xt derailleurs.

Harder to find replacement bits if I ever get anywhere out of the way, and thinner (and therefore possibly weaker) chain.

For those that have mentioned bar ends, why did you go for those rather than downtube... to my mind an indexed downtube is just as awkward/convenient as bar ends, as for both you're having to move your hands to shift, and taking shifting away from the bars altogether means straighter, shorter cable runs which should be a bonus, no?

mrbike

Gavin wrote: »

Why not go to 10 speed ?
10 speed 105 shifters with 10 speed slx or xt derailleurs.

Apart from the weaker chain, Deore XT 10 speed (Dyna-sys) is not compatible with 10 speed road STI shifters. Shimano changed the cable pull ratio.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=685337

rottenhat

TinyExplosions wrote: »

For those that have mentioned bar ends, why did you go for those rather than downtube... to my mind an indexed downtube is just as awkward/convenient as bar ends, as for both you're having to move your hands to shift, and taking shifting away from the bars altogether means straighter, shorter cable runs which should be a bonus, no?

There's a big difference in convenience between bar-ends and downtube which will become apparent if you try them both. With bar-ends, you don't have to move your hand much (most of the time you can use the base of hand to shift, keeping your fingers on the drop part of your bar even) - with downtube shifters you do actually have to reach down. I think this would be more of an issue with a loaded bike, especially if you have a bar-bag or lowriders.

Downtube shifters are decidedly more elegant though.

Canis Lupus

TinyExplosions wrote: »

For those that have mentioned bar ends, why did you go for those rather than downtube... to my mind an indexed downtube is just as awkward/convenient as bar ends, as for both you're having to move your hands to shift, and taking shifting away from the bars altogether means straighter, shorter cable runs which should be a bonus, no?

lol it came with the bike I had a old old bike many moons ago with downtube shifters, I flipping hated them.

bcmf

Tiny, If chain strenght is the issue with 10sp why dont you opt for the Mavic 10 sp chain from crc. IMO one of the strongest chains out there (and certainly superior to Shimano) cheap enough to buy a few and carry a spare (you will have panniers after all) Its 10sp compatible with all systems. with the 'brifters' , I think it was mentioned before, 10 sp should work with 9 speed systems.
I have a set of campy 10sp shifters you can try out (before I stick them up on ebay) if you get a 9sp mech.

doozerie

I'm not sure if it'll help at all, particularly given that the pages are relatively old at this stage, but CTC's pages on rear shifting and front shifting go into some detail on compatibility between different makes of kit.

As regards the choice between down-tube shifter and bar-end shifters, I have no experience of bar-end shifters but having had down-tube shifters for years I was happy to see the back of them when I moved to integrated brake+gear levers (Campag in my case). I've toured with down-tube shifters and while I never actually had a mishap, a laden bike does tend to highlight the issues of having to take a hand off the bars to change gear, whether that is going uphill at slow speed or downhill at high speed. For me, having gears levers within easy reach of your hands while on the bars is worth a lot.

Having said that though, down-tube shifters are simple and reliable and can be switched to friction mode to deal with derailleur/cable/cassette issues so they do have their advantages if you thought you might be somewhere where you couldn't easily repair a faulty more "complicated" gear lever. Bar-end levers might well be a good compromise here too though as I imagine they are just as simple and reliable.

Schnell

Hey, I've got a new tourer that I just set up recently with downtube shifters. I considered bar-ends as well, but in the end I decided to go with flat bars with down tube shifting for the ultimate in beardy reliability. During my research I came across these as well, which, if you are much concerned about appearances will probably be out.

http://www.kellybike.com/2nd_xtra_takeoff.html

They're pretty inelegant and ugly, but functional in a botched together sort of way.