Love Wins?

Seaneh

Right,
So the entire Evangelical church seems to be caught up in the controversy of this book right now.

I haven't read it, but I am, usually, very receptive of Rob Bell's works, so I am willing to give it a go.

People like John Piper and Mark Driscoll, who have been sniping at Bell and his church for years, have been extremely damming, calling it dangerous and heretical.

What I've heard so far doesn't actually sounds all that out there. Sure it's not Driscoll or Piper's Calvinist flavour of choice and it poses some questions that a lot of people are passionate about, but really, Bell doesn't seem to make authoritative claims to answering these questions, he just gives his opinion and states that there is no way of knowing the whole truth.

Have any of you read it yet?
How do you feel about it?

Fanny Cradock

It certainly has been blasted. He will be in discussion with another Christian on the Unbelievable show next Saturday. I'll post a link then.

I found this review to be interesting. I also found the follow up post to be equally interesting.

Seaneh

Is the discussion in Ireland.

Fanny Cradock

It's from the UK, I believe.

homer911

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

It certainly has been blasted. He will be in discussion with another Christian on the Unbelievable show next Saturday. I'll post a link then.

I found this review to be interesting. I also found the follow up post to be equally interesting.

Brilliant follow up post, thanks Fanny - haven't read it, can't comment, except God is just

Fanny Cradock

homer911 wrote: »

Brilliant follow up post, thanks Fanny - haven't read it, can't comment, except God is just

If it tickles your fancy then you can thank Zoomtard for that (and Rob Bell, obviously).

Keylem

Here's a link to another review.

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/files/2011/03/LoveWinsReview.pdf

The author, also a pastor, read Bell's "Love Wins" and by large refutes Bell's false and harmful "feel good" theology.

PDN

I've read it (and re-read it) this last week.

I like Rob Bell, so I was hoping that the criticism I'd heard about this book was misplaced. It wasn't.

Bell does make some good points at times, but his arguments in this book are weak and somewhat contradictory. He appears to be arguing that everyone will be given multiple chances, after death, to turn to God and that eventually, since God can wait a very long time, that everyone will finally end up making the right choice.

It's more about the kind of God that Rob Bell wants there to be than about the God who is described in the Bible.

Having said all that, I don't think he is a heretic. I disagree with him on this particular issue, just as I disagree with John Piper on some points, but his views, while somewhat unorthodox, hardly stop him from being a genuine Christian.

Fanny Cradock

Here is a link to the debate from last week. I find RB's unwillingness to nail down his position really, really irritating.

http://media.premier.org.uk/unbelievable/57af5a35-8b49-4c58-b283-fe25e4fe2d97.mp3

Fanny Cradock

BTW, this week Unbelievable has a loose follow-on debate between Brian McLaren (one might call him the daddy of the emergent movement) and James White (a very strict Calvinist, some might even say a Hyper-Calvinist*).

link

*I should say that while Hyper-Calvinist is a pejorative term, I enjoy some of James White's contributions even if I disagree with parts of his theology and the rhetorical methods he sometimes employs in his podcasts.

Seaneh

So I read the book recently and then listened to the audio book on a long bus ride and Honestly, while I don't agree with everything he says, I don't find it offensive or heritical, in fact, there are quite a few people I know who have been disaffected by churches in this country and around the world who I would gladly recommend the book to.

Bell doesn't say he believes in any one idea he outlines, rather he states that the belief of the likes of Driscoll, Piper and the rest of the "New Calvanists", that only a select few of all those who have every lived will see the new heaven and new earth while countless billions of people suffer for eternity in hell, is dangerous and subverts the message Gospel's of "love, peace, forgiveness and joy that our world desperately needs to hear." .

I'm not at all surprised that Driscoll has attacked it, the man is batcrap insane, rants of his during sermons have included "God hates you... God can't even look at us because he is so disgusted… You have been told that God is loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good... That is a lie... God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you." and "Avatar is the most satanic movie I have ever seen".

I think, theologically, it's flimsy at best, but there isn't a whole lot actually wrong with that he says and atleast he is encouraging people to question traditional interpretation of scripture.

Also, one thing I do agree with Bell on is this.
"Whatever objections a person may have of [the UR view], and there are many, one has to admit that it is fitting, proper, and Christian to long for it."


The reason people like Piper and Driscoll attacked him so vehemently is because they are exactly the type of exclusivist, literalits, dangerous preachers he was talking about in the book.

wolfsbane

PDN wrote: »

He appears to be arguing that everyone will be given multiple chances, after death, to turn to God and that eventually, since God can wait a very long time, that everyone will finally end up making the right choice.

He's been watching Ireland and the Lisbon Treaty then?




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Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”