2011 Auris Hybrid - an observation......for now....

galwaytt

So, the uncle-in-law is back from UK on hols for a few weeks, and has brought his spanking new 2011 Auris Hybrid with him.

A man just past 70, he's a good driver, and changes his cars every x years. Keeps all the garage's happy, the ideal customer, really.

So, I saw it yesterday for the first time: looks lovely (in white, btw).

In conversation, I asked what he thought of it, to which he said.......
V. Quiet, smooth. Bit down on power to what he's used to, 80mph is as much as he likes to drive it on the motorway, as it's hard work above it, and feels acceleration a bit lethargic.

Bearing in mind that last time he was home, and that he vowed he was keeping the last car 'til his motoring days were over (there was nothing wrong with it....) I was curious as to why he changed it. To which he said......(in reverse order, btw.......)

Car Tax - the universal complaint.......new car is now.......FREE ! :eek:


And........fuel economy. Apparently, the blurb speaks of 70mpg. In reality, he says he's struggling to get 50mpg.

In other word's, he spent 1000's on buying a new car to save...£165 annual road tax......and the car uses more juice than the old one.





Oh, what was the 'old' one ?

2006 Corolla Verso 2.0D

7-Seater.

Ironically, if he'd bought a new Verso...........it'd be Zero tax as well...........!!

Some (home/un-) truth's are truly universal, aren't they ? :rolleyes:

I'm going to get to drive it a bit and I'll come back to ye with an RoI perspective......

billyboy01

God Save the UK!:)

Fair Laws, Fair Taxes, Decent Roads!:)

I'll be living over there soon, looking forward to the new 2012 Hybrid Yaris!

robtri

billyboy01 wrote: »

God Save the UK!:)

Fair Laws, Fair Taxes, Decent Roads!:)

I'll be living over there soon, looking forward to the new 2012 Hybrid Yaris!

roads arent that much better over IMO

taxes... what u save on road/motor tax they make up for it in petrol or diesel taxes

billyboy01

Well, I have found the roads/motorways are designed and maintained better then here, and most of them are over 40 years old. Not built in the last 10 years like here! Also there fuel price is nearly the same now, 1.51€ here/£1.30ish there! I would prefer a bit higher fuel cost to VRT, Inflated Motor Tax, higher maintenance and parts costs! Oh and poor road design and maintenance on the few tolled Motorways we have paid for and are being charged to use!

galwaytt

billyboy01 wrote: »

God Save the UK!:)

Fair Laws, Fair Taxes, Decent Roads!:)

I'll be living over there soon, looking forward to the new 2012 Hybrid Yaris!

billyboy01 wrote: »

Well, I have found the roads/motorways are designed and maintained better then here, and most of them are over 40 years old. Not built in the last 10 years like here! Also there fuel price is nearly the same now, 1.51€ here/£1.30ish there! I would prefer a bit higher fuel cost to VRT, Inflated Motor Tax, higher maintenance and parts costs! Oh and poor road design and maintenance on the few tolled Motorways we have paid for and are being charged to use!

When was the last time you bought fuel in the UK ?

I paid £1.42/litre only a few weeks ago - and only for the recent Budget, it was due to go up 5p/litre, but that increase was postponed. Postponed, not cancelled.

That's € 1.67 litre.

So 1.67 - 1.51 = 0.16 CHEAPER, HERE :rolleyes:

billyboy01

galwaytt wrote: »

When was the last time you bought fuel in the UK ?

I paid £1.42/litre only a few weeks ago - and only for the recent Budget, it was due to go up 5p/litre, but that increase was postponed. Postponed, not cancelled.

That's € 1.67 litre.

So 1.67 - 1.51 = 0.16 CHEAPER, HERE :rolleyes:

I was over in Bangor, Wales a week ago, paid £1.32 a litre for petrol!

At £1.42/litre, must have been premium grade petrol!:D

galwaytt

billyboy01 wrote: »

I was over in Bangor, Wales a week ago, paid £1.32 a litre for petrol!

At £1.42/litre, must have been premium grade petrol!:D

Wales isn't England................

Price in South East UK higher: either way, I'll confirm again, as I'm heading over in the car tomorrow night again - and through Wales as well !

Soarer

robtri wrote: »

taxes... what u save on road/motor tax they make up for it in petrol or diesel taxes

But at least with the tax on the fuel, if you're not driving, you're not paying tax.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He isnt going to get anywhere near 70mpg if he is driving at 80mph!

...in any car!

keithclancy

Try and live there ...

Council: Hi .. that'll be 2000 pounds in Council tax for the year please ..

You: You ... What ... now ??

But its supposed to be a place with fair taxes and cheap stuff ... aww maannn !! :cool:

mickdw

keithclancy wrote: »

Try and live there ...

Council: Hi .. that'll be 2000 pounds in Council tax for the year please ..

You: You ... What ... now ??

But its supposed to be a place with fair taxes and cheap stuff ... aww maannn !! :cool:

BUt they might actually provide some services for the money.
What does it cover?

Owen

I drove through Cambridge, Ely, Kettering, Birmingham, Rubgy and Wales last weekend. Roads are much better IMHO.

n97 mini

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I drove through Cambridge, Ely, Kettering, Birmingham, Rubgy and Wales last weekend. Roads are much better IMHO.

I drive the UK regularly and I agree.

We have more roads per capita (blame planning policy) than any other country in Europe (if not the world), so the funds here are spread more thinly.

OP, what was your relative getting on the Verso diesel? He was probably well below the stated figures in that too. I know a few of people with hybrids and their average economy figures vary by as much as 20 mpg which is purely down to driving styles.

Lex Luthor

Your uncle is doing well to get 50+mpg in the verso he had. My missus has never got that on average in hers

DHFrame

Something wrong if he is only getting 50mpg. And it's a 1.8 petrol, if he's not getting enough umph from that, especially when there is a electric motor helping too, then he needs a 2ltr turbo diesel to compliment his right foot.

n97 mini

Diesel doesn't get the tax breaks in the UK that it gets here, namely lower excise than petrol and businesses can claim the VAT back on diesel but not petrol.

In the UK diesel is taxed the same as petrol and businesses who use diesel company cars actually pay extra tax because of the pollution it causes/

AugustusMinimus

THe obsession with lower motor taxes rates in this country in nauseating.

People driving 10,000km per year going out of their way to buy a far more expensive diesel in order to get into a lower motor tax bracket, all the time not realising that they are losing cash overall.

Madness.


Hybrids work at their best in city driving, where your braking will create electricity which can be reused to start you. However, I fail to see how they are any use when you are doing a constant 80mph on a motorway. Even if your 1.4 engine is aided by an electric engine, that electric engine will run out of juice quite quickly on a motorway and the 1.4 engine will be quite inefficient when the car is doing 80mph.

Joe 90

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

THe obsession with lower motor taxes rates in this country in nauseating.

People driving 10,000km per year going out of their way to buy a far more expensive diesel in order to get into a lower motor tax bracket, all the time not realising that they are losing cash overall.

Madness.


Hybrids work at their best in city driving, where your braking will create electricity which can be reused to start you. However, I fail to see how they are any use when you are doing a constant 80mph on a motorway. Even if your 1.4 engine is aided by an electric engine, that electric engine will run out of juice quite quickly on a motorway and the 1.4 engine will be quite inefficient when the car is doing 80mph.

And don't forget that the electricity has to be generated by your 1.4 or whatever engine in the first place.

AugustusMinimus

Joe 90 wrote: »

And don't forget that the electricity has to be generated by your 1.4 or whatever engine in the first place.

Well, the whole idea is that the electricity is generated by making electricity from the car slowing down. I doubt that the petrol engine would charge the batteries directly as this would lose energy due to adding a another process inbetween buring the petrol and then eventually using the electric engine for momentum.

However, this is exactly how the GM Volt/Ampera will work.

n97 mini

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Hybrids work at their best in city driving, where your braking will create electricity which can be reused to start you. However, I fail to see how they are any use when you are doing a constant 80mph on a motorway.

Nothing will do well at a constant 80mph.

The other is the electrics on a hybrid are not used while long distance cruising. The efficiencies gained are through better aerodynamics, skinny tyres, smallish engines and so on.

In the right hands hybrids do work, and work very well.

AugustusMinimus

n97 mini wrote: »

Nothing will do well at a constant 80mph.

The other is the electrics on a hybrid are not used while long distance cruising. The efficiencies gained are through better aerodynamics, skinny tyres, smallish engines and so on.

In the right hands hybrids do work, and work very well.

You can get cars which will do well at 80mph.

They typically are 2 litre petrols or 2 litre turbo diesels with a 6th gear suited to that speed.

In order to get good fuel efficiency at 80mph you need an engine producing the torque needed at low enough revs and for the gearing to be just right.

Joe 90

TBH, at 80 mph aerodynamics will be by far the most important factor. Given that there will be a practical limit as to how low the drag coefficient can be in a real life car the only other way to cut aerodynamic drag is to cit the frontal area. If you want to save fuel don't buy acres of sheet metal.

AugustusMinimus

Joe 90 wrote: »

TBH, at 80 mph aerodynamics will be by far the most important factor. Given that there will be a practical limit as to how low the drag coefficient can be in a real life car the only other way to cut aerodynamic drag is to cit the frontal area. If you want to save fuel don't buy acres of sheet metal.

Generally in terms of aerodyanmics, how you leave the air behind you is more important than how the front of the cars breaks in the air in the first place.

I'd imagine that coupe's with sloping backs are efficient, along with a more slanted bonnet as you say.

n97 mini

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

You can get cars which will do well at 80mph.

They typically are 2 litre petrols or 2 litre turbo diesels with a 6th gear suited to that speed.

In order to get good fuel efficiency at 80mph you need an engine producing the torque needed at low enough revs and for the gearing to be just right.

But no car will do better at 80mph than it does at 60mph, and as Joe90 says the wind at 80 is a huge strain.

AugustusMinimus

n97 mini wrote: »

But no car will do better at 80mph than it does at 60mph, and as Joe90 says the wind at 80 is a huge strain.

Where did I ever say that ?

And no, it is possible to create a car which will get better MPG at 80 than 60. You just have to create stupid gearing ratios which would require almost red lining it at 60 and about 3,000 revs for 80. Although this may mean you wouldn't be able to get into top gear unless you has a tail wind or driving down hill.

yop

keithclancy wrote: »

Try and live there ...

Council: Hi .. that'll be 2000 pounds in Council tax for the year please ..

You: You ... What ... now ??

But its supposed to be a place with fair taxes and cheap stuff ... aww maannn !! :cool:

Thats fair enough but we paid over 15k development costs to the council for paths, lighting etc....
We don't have paths, we don't have lighting, we dont have broadband, we have a 20ft * 3ft * 12" pothole running down the road that I had to fill twice.

UK even with the 2k council taxes by far a hell of a lot cheaper to live in, I did for a number of years

Soz off topic.

out of interest, how can the claim 70mpg when its not getting anywhere near it?

n97 mini

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Where did I ever say that ?

Here:

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

it is possible to create a car which will get better MPG at 80 than 60

No it's not. Gear ratios can be changed, wind resistance can not.

AugustusMinimus

n97 mini wrote: »

Here:

No it's not. Gear ratios can be changed, wind resistance can not.

"Did" believe it or not is past tense. I never said what you claimed I said before you made that post.

Wind resistance isn't the only factor in terms of mpg for a given speed. If you drop down a gear an rev the engine harder you will get less MPG.

If you use stupid gear ratios you can setup a car to get better MPG at a higher speed. But no one would do this.

My original post did not say you can get better MPG at a faster speed. It

My original post which you mistook said

You can get cars which will do well at 80mph.

They typically are 2 litre petrols or 2 litre turbo diesels with a 6th gear suited to that speed.

In order to get good fuel efficiency at 80mph you need an engine producing the torque needed at low enough revs and for the gearing to be just right.

And indeed, with the correct car, in terms of engine capacity, power at low revs and correct gear ratios, you can get good MPG at 80mph. Good aerodynamics will also help such as a more sloping front, but way more importantly, a longer tail. Low friction tyres will also help. Low friction drivetrain too.

n97 mini

If you said something it doesn't really matter before what post etc.

No car does better at 80 than at 60mph. There's nothing really to discuss.

L1011

yop wrote: »

Thats fair enough but we paid over 15k development costs to the council for paths, lighting etc....
We don't have paths, we don't have lighting, we dont have broadband, we have a 20ft * 3ft * 12" pothole running down the road that I had to fill twice.

This would suggest you built a one-off in the country and are hence part of the problem. In the UK you wouldn't even have got planning permission for this, and hence would live in a village or town where its actually economically viable to provide services...