The three point turn

Fuinseog

can anyone tell me how they estimate where the kerb is in front of the car when you are going forward after it goes out of sight? if you hit it you fail. I presume you can stop a foot from it.


What about reversing, do you fail if you hit it as well? I was watching one of those driving dvds and the instructor seemed to touch the kerb when reversing.

stoneill

You need to develop spatial awareness of your surroundings and have an intuitive knowledge of the size of the car, your position in relation to the wheels, the direction the wheels are pointing and where the kerb is in relation to your position at any particular moment during the 3 point turn.

In other words - practice.

LizT

Just keep practising in the car you're going to doyour test in. You just need to get a feel of how far back you can go and if you could make the turn in 3 moves or if you need 5

**Timbuk2**

There's no tricks to it - you'll get a sense of it by practicing. If you go somewhere with a gentle cerb (such as those in front of houses) that you can drive into without damaging the tyre! You'll feel it hit it, so you'll know where.

Alternatively, go onto a quiet cul de sac, do a three point turn, stop where you think you are about to touch the kerb (where you'd stop and switch to reverse in your test), get out of the car and see how close you really are.

It's an important one to develop. In my first test, I got a Grade 2 error for Competency on the Turnabout, for being over-cautious and doing it in 5 turns, when it really could have been done in 3.

ostrich

If you hit the kerb too hard you will fail. The key to reversing around the corner is to go very slow using only the clutch while being very observant.

Fuinseog

ostrich wrote: »

If you hit the kerb too hard you will fail.

too hard or if you hit it at all?

**Timbuk2**

Fuinseog wrote: »

too hard or if you hit it at all?

If you hit the kerb, you will get a Grade 2 fault. If you mount the kerb, you will get a Grade 3 fault (i.e. automatic fail).

ADIDriving

To estimate where the kerb is, look out the window to a point where you can see it. It will follow a relatively consistant line to where your car is. Then it becomes an educated guess as to where it is out of view.

KylieWyley

Its not a three-point turn, its a turnabout.. meaning you can do it in as many movements as you want.

Just take it nice and slowly.

LizT

Also, don't panic if cars approach you when you're doing the turn. Just keep observing left and right and behind when reversing. If you panic because there's cars waiting you're more likely to rush and make a mistake.

**Timbuk2**

KylieWyley wrote: »

Its not a three-point turn, its a turnabout.. meaning you can do it in as many movements as you want.

You can do it in 5 if you need to. But if you can do it in 3, do it in 3, otherwise you'll be marked down for competency.

I was over-cautious on my test, and on a reasonably sized road, took 5 turns - it was only a Toyota Starlet Ironically I did the same road on lessons before, in 3 each time. I was being over-cautious during my test, afraid of hitting the kerb or something, and got a Grade 2 for Competency!

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Take a look at the turnabout video here http://www.drivingtesttips.ie/Irish-Driving-Test-Video-Tutorials.php
Remember to practice. Your ADI will say the same, "practice, practice, practice".

overshoot

As Timbuk2 & kileywiley said, its called a turnabout not 3 point turn, whatever is necessary but this is dependant on the size of the road, taking too many shows your not competent. As said before its all about practice and knowing the dimensions and turning circle of your car. might even be worth deliberately hitting it (slowly) so you can work out where your wheels are in relation to line what you can see. (beware high kerbs may not be the wheel that hits first)
remember you can turn the steering wheel a bit before you move off each time (definately not more than 1 turn), too much is bad for the tyres and a fault. take it slowly, if you go too fast you dont have enough time to turn the wheel so require more movements.
and watch out if there is a bit of slope to the road, a bit of a hillstart may be needed!
a bit of practice and this is a easy pass, but everyone fs up at first.

spurious

Slow movement, fast steering.

Sparkie93

overshoot wrote: »

remember you can turn the steering wheel a bit before you move off each time (definately not more than 1 turn), too much is bad for the tyres and a fault.

my instructor told me to completely turn the wheel until i cant turn it anymore is this not right? will i get faults in my test

brian076

KylieWyley wrote: »

Its not a three-point turn, its a turnabout.. meaning you can do it in as many movements as you want.

No you can't. The tester says that you can go over and back more than once if necessary, but if he deems that it wasn't necessary to go over and back more than once, you could get a grade 2 fault.

Sparkie93 wrote: »

my instructor told me to completely turn the wheel until i cant turn it anymore is this not right? will i get faults in my test

Ideally you should only turn the wheel when the car is moving, but if you dry steer, ie turn it while it's stationary, you won't be marked.

Reloc8

Sparkie93 wrote: »

my instructor told me to completely turn the wheel until i cant turn it anymore is this not right? will i get faults in my test

He was talking about something different. You're correct to try and get full lock on the steering wheel when turning (and as said by someone else, slow movement, fast steering). He's saying you can 'dry steer' before you move off, i.e. turn the wheels before you move forward.

Its not best practice - bad for the tyres - but you won't get marked down for it - and it can help to get the turn done.

On another note some testers like to get you to do it on a road which has quite a significant camber - where the road slopes away from the middle line on each side - don't just practice on flat roads.

stevenmu

You can actually start to turn the wheel in the other direction a little bit before you come to a stop at the curb, this helps a lot when you start moving off in the other direction.

Also, use the wing mirror to judge distance to the curb behind when reversing. If you sit up as high as you can, even stretch your neck, you get a better angle in the mirror and depending on your setup you may even be able to see the rear wheel and curb at the same time.

J_R

Fuinseog wrote: »

can anyone tell me how they estimate where the kerb is in front of the car when you are going forward after it goes out of sight? if you hit it you fail. I presume you can stop a foot from it.

Hi,

A good way is to use the spatial awareness of where you reckon your feet are. Drive forward slowly until you reckon your feet are at the edge of the pavement. (Or just before, whatever works.)

Reversing more difficult, best is to look out the window or if necessary even get out of the car, see how far you actually ended up from the kerb (in practice of course - not in the test) then sit back in the car and try and find some reference points that you can line-up, either through the windows or the mirror

See my Turnabout Video

ADIDriving

J_R wrote: »

A good way is to use the spatial awareness of where you reckon your feet are. Drive forward slowly until you reckon your feet are at the edge of the pavement. (Or just before, whatever works.)

Interesting idea but... the wheels are infront of your feet. So you need to stop almost two foot before your feet. If you stop when your feet are at the edge of the path your front wheels would be on the path.

J_R

ADIDriving wrote: »

Interesting idea but... the wheels are infront of your feet. .

Never knew that. Learn more every day.

Try it before you knock it. It is not where your actual feet are but where you perceive your feet to be that matters. It quite often works.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

I would always tell the learner to look out the side window and not to worry about stopping to far away. Just try to judge the safe stopping distance.

What ever we use the practice is most important.

Note to learners:
Find what works for you and practice. Remember observation is more important than anything else.

ADIDriving

J_R wrote: »

Never knew that. Learn more every day.

I'll assume / hope you are being sarcastic. But the forum is for learners, who may not have thought about these things and may not have noticed.

Try it before you knock it. It is not where your actual feet are but where you perceive your feet to be that matters. It quite often works.

Tried it this evening. It does not work for me. I guess I perceive my feet to be at the end of my legs. If you have a way of explain it to learners that works, go for it.

I'll stick to other methods.

Fuinseog

DrivingTestTips: Brian wrote: »

I would always tell the learner to look out the side window and not to worry about stopping to far away. Just try to judge the safe stopping distance.

What ever we use the practice is most important.

Note to learners:
Find what works for you and practice. Remember observation is more important than anything else.

there comes the point when you are far from the kerb but can no longer see it when looking out. that is why I posed the question.

DrivingTestTips: Brian

Fuinseog wrote: »

there comes the point when you are far from the kerb but can no longer see it when looking out. that is why I posed the question.

Is this when reversing? Are you looking out the back window. Or is it when you are moving forward and looking in front.

J_R

ADIDriving wrote: »

I'll stick to other methods.

Who are you to vet my posts. ? I was giving advice to the OP, using a method that over the many years I have been an instructor have found works very successfully with some but not all pupils.


To the OP, try it with an open mind, then come back on here and advise of your experience. Unfortunately giving it a fair trial might be diffficult following adidrivings input.

ADIDriving

J_R wrote: »

Who are you to vet my posts. ?

I am a member of the forum where we discuss the statements that are posted. That should be a good enough answer. But I am also a qualified driving instructor like yourself. However, anyone regardless of qualifications or experience would be entitled to make the observation that you would need to stop well before your feet get to the kerb, as the wheels are significantly infront of your feet. You did then invite further discussion by suggesting I try it. I then tried it and responded. Are you going to complain to the OP if they say they don't like your method. I don't want to hear of you questioning my ability to make a fair comment again.

I was giving advice to the OP, using a method that over the many years I have been an instructor have found works very successfully with some but not all pupils.

It may work when you are in the car with the student explaining the concept and ready to stop them if needed. It was a short post which I felt needed clarification. This frequently happens. I will often type too short a comment and welcome others expansion. Credit to those who have the time and typing to write huge posts.

To the OP, try it with an open mind, then come back on here and advise of your experience. Unfortunately giving it a fair trial might be diffficult following adidrivings input.

Discussion is to be encouraged. Driving is to be safe.