Starting Ableton Live - Equipment Choices?

SpaceRanger

Okay so after 2 years of using FL to death I've decided to switch to Ableton Live, luckily enough I've got some money to spend and I'm wondering what I should get.
What I want to do is -
- no-fuss looping, sampling and triggering
- being able to control effects, alter sounds and retrieve patches with as little menu-diving as possible
and to have as much control over drum patterns etc. as I possibly can

The rig I'm thinking of right now is -
- Native Instruments Kore 2 with controller for patch retrieval and sound altering
- Behringer BCR2000 for effects and panning
- Novation Launchpad for sequencing, triggering and looping
- Korg NANOpad for on-the-fly drum control

I'm planning on using my future rig with Ableton Live and NI Reaktor. I need to get the best equipment to work with these platforms with my goals in mind and with the budget I have, which can stretch to max 400 euro excluding prices of software including the Kore controller. In total the current cost of the hardware (BCR, Launchpad and Nanopad) is 326 euro, so I'd like to keep the cost in-around there so I can spend more on software or RAM.

P.S The computer I have has 4gb of ram, 3 ghz tri-core processor and an m-audio 2496 soundcard and I'm planning on expanding the ram to 8gb, so it can certainly hold it's weight when there's a lot of stuff going on.

Neurojazz

SpaceRanger wrote: »

Okay so after 2 years of using FL to death I've decided to switch to Ableton Live, luckily enough I've got some money to spend and I'm wondering what I should get.
What I want to do is -
- no-fuss looping, sampling and triggering
- being able to control effects, alter sounds and retrieve patches with as little menu-diving as possible
and to have as much control over drum patterns etc. as I possibly can

The rig I'm thinking of right now is -
- Native Instruments Kore 2 with controller for patch retrieval and sound altering
- Behringer BCR2000 for effects and panning
- Novation Launchpad for sequencing, triggering and looping
- Korg NANOpad for on-the-fly drum control

I'm planning on using my future rig with Ableton Live and NI Reaktor. I need to get the best equipment to work with these platforms with my goals in mind and with the budget I have, which can stretch to max 400 euro excluding prices of software including the Kore controller. In total the current cost of the hardware (BCR, Launchpad and Nanopad) is 326 euro, so I'd like to keep the cost in-around there so I can spend more on software or RAM.

P.S The computer I have has 4gb of ram, 3 ghz tri-core processor and an m-audio 2496 soundcard and I'm planning on expanding the ram to 8gb, so it can certainly hold it's weight when there's a lot of stuff going on.

What sort of music are you planning on making? - and are you recording out live or just home use?

SpaceRanger

Neurojazz wrote: »

What sort of music are you planning on making? - and are you recording out live or just home use?

House, Electro, and some rock in the mix there too. I'd be recording mainly at home but I'd like to be able to do my thing live too

Neurojazz

SpaceRanger wrote: »

House, Electro, and some rock in the mix there too. I'd be recording mainly at home but I'd like to be able to do my thing live too

Ok, stay away from NI - it's a bit sterile (unless you're aiming for a specific sound from it) - massive learning curve to really get into it and getting fleeced with fees with upgrades for next versions (sometimes)

Worth checking out also - Omnisphere - it's a cpu hog, but clarity, choice and balls all there.

For your external control - you'd only need this for Ableton.

That would give you a lot of power.

All the effects are already built into Ableton and Omnisphere has masses in there also to reallly give you a lot of choice.

If you have more time than most and want to go down the totally creative route, then NI is great for finding weird and surreal sounds - but Omnisphere can do that also and simpler once you get a grip on the UI.

I have the whole NI suite sat here and it never gets used anymore. I use Sylenth for generic Dance music leads/pads and Omnisphere for the creative stuff or massive basslines.

Drums and loops - I either use my own (free here) - or use Vengeance sample cds for genre orientated material (like for remixes)

That gives me enough to keep the creative side going and anything else that i'd need for random projects that crop up.

For the guitar side, welcome to the wonderful world of latency - but there's a nice amp sim included into Ableton now

BTW - Welcome to boards

Radiosurfer

Hey there,

I teach classes in Ableton and also play out live with it. I use the launchpad with the BCR2000 and it works great so I'd highly recommend that combo.

Also, if you buy now you get Max4Live free. Don't worry about ever gettin into programming with M4L, if you can get it free it's worth it for all the amazing devices that are available for free. Check out www.ableton.com/maxforlive for more details. It is amazing.


Personally I wouldn't be a big fan of the APC40 or 20. They aren't very flexible and (certainly the 40) are a bit cumbersome for leaving the studio with. The other thing I would point out is that the amp simulator (simply called AMP) that is now available with Live is pretty terrible. Have a google around for reviews and/or comments from other users. It's been trashed.

You can check out some of my stuff here:
www.soundcloud.com/tigali
It's all done exclusively in Ableton Live. I would also hesitate on getting any third party synths until you've had a good root around the stuff that comes with Ableton. Analog, Operater, Simpler and Sampler are all amazing and can do a lot of different things. Once you've had a go at them you can then better decide what's missing from your armoury.

Neurojazz

Radiosurfer wrote: »

Hey there,

I teach classes in Ableton and also play out live with it. I use the launchpad with the BCR2000 and it works great so I'd highly recommend that combo.

Also, if you buy now you get Max4Live free. Don't worry about ever gettin into programming with M4L, if you can get it free it's worth it for all the amazing devices that are available for free. Check out www.ableton.com/maxforlive for more details. It is amazing.


Personally I wouldn't be a big fan of the APC40 or 20. They aren't very flexible and (certainly the 40) are a bit cumbersome for leaving the studio with. The other thing I would point out is that the amp simulator (simply called AMP) that is now available with Live is pretty terrible. Have a google around for reviews and/or comments from other users. It's been trashed.

You can check out some of my stuff here:
www.soundcloud.com/tigali
It's all done exclusively in Ableton Live. I would also hesitate on getting any third party synths until you've had a good root around the stuff that comes with Ableton. Analog, Operater, Simpler and Sampler are all amazing and can do a lot of different things. Once you've had a go at them you can then better decide what's missing from your armoury.

The amp is fine - post processing helps... but latency always an issue unless you have a very swift soundcard and computer to back it up - (like the hammerfall gear)

The APC40 is fine for live - it's doing the rounds and holding up perfectly - the guys i work with in Oz are using it in and out of studio for all arrangement & fx control.

So, i'm giving advice from experience - not hearsay!

The ableton own instruments are *ok* - but depends a lot on style. No harm in trying them, but compared to the vst listed they get hammered. Depends again on sound you are aiming for.

If the house is minimal - then chat to JTsuited or Seannash - they have a fair bit of knowledge in that area.

Radiosurfer

Whoa there, I said "personally", as in my personal opinion. No need to get disagreeable about it. Where did I suggest anything about "hearsay"?

I have used both the APC40 and 20 and the 40 weighs a tonne. That's not to say it can't be used live, just that I wouldn't recommend it "personally".

Also, AMP might be fine in your opinion, but it's far from it in mine. I advised the OP to google around for more opinions. I'm not saying my opinion is gospel.


And again, in your opinion the ableton instruments are *ok*. Well in mine they're far better than that. I wasn't looking for an argument and I don't know why you felt you had to be so heavy about it. Lets all try and help each other with a varying mix of opinions and the guy can make his own mind up.

Neurojazz

Radiosurfer wrote: »

Whoa there, I said "personally", as in my personal opinion. No need to get disagreeable about it. Where did I suggest anything about "hearsay"?

I have used both the APC40 and 20 and the 40 weighs a tonne. That's not to say it can't be used live, just that I wouldn't recommend it "personally".

Also, AMP might be fine in your opinion, but it's far from it in mine. I advised the OP to google around for more opinions. I'm not saying my opinion is gospel.

I also don't appreciate being Modded for saying**************. I was trying to be helpful. If I want to sell it I'll stick it up on Adverts with the rest of my ads.

And again, in your opinion the ableton instruments are *ok*. Well in mine they're far better than that. I wasn't looking for an argument and I don't know why you felt you had to be so heavy about it. Lets all try and help each other with a varying mix of opinions and the guy can make his own mind up.

Read the boards EULA. Last warning.

SpaceRanger

Cheers for the advice people. Considering my budget I'd say I'll be going with a launchpad, bcr2000 and nanopad. In terms of my software, I'll try an Omnisphere demo or something but I do like to be picky about designing my sounds as not to sound unoriginal, so if omnisphere doesn't go well I'll go get Kore and Reaktor

Neurojazz

SpaceRanger wrote: »

Cheers for the advice people. Considering my budget I'd say I'll be going with a launchpad, bcr2000 and nanopad. In terms of my software, I'll try an Omnisphere demo or something but I do like to be picky about designing my sounds as not to sound unoriginal, so if omnisphere doesn't go well I'll go get Kore and Reaktor

I'd have to say to try and sit down with someone with the full version of Omni - there's stuff tucked away in there that's truly frightening (in a good way) - for one small example it has pure sampled sources from nearly every analog and digital synth that can be wavetabled.

Plus hearing NI against Omni is pretty telling also - the clarity is amazing and you're not limited with editing the waves - check out some of the sound editing tuts -http://www.spectrasonics.net/products/omnisphere-videos.php

I've used reaktor since version 2 - even used to make my own FX with it - tried Massive for lead and bass when it was released... definitely A/B the sound quality

On a side note, if you get bored there are about 6000 presets to fiddle with in a browser the same as NI's

Quiggers

I also use a bcr2000 launchpad combo, itsgood but can be fiddly to set up in a booth, a friend of mine has the apc40, and while it looks big its far easier to set up as 1 dj is ending a set than my rig, not a major difference but something to bear in mind.

As for the list of synths you've got there, go slow, dont buy a new daw, new synth and new programming language all at once, best advice i ever got was to buy one tool at a time and learn it inside out, ableton comes with so good instruments and fx but to get the most out of it you need to master racks and clip launches and dummy clips, grouping etc, so spend a few months getting to know it, NI core wont derail you here as its a sound module, but i would wait till i'd exhausted abletons options before starting into reaktor, yes its powerful, and can be damn handy when you can think of an effect that no one seems to have made yet but its deep, not like a lake deep, like mid atlantic rift deep, pure data and max msp are the only things that go deeper before your just writing c++ code.

There are people on here who do courses in ableton, the comercial section of the music production forum should have a few ads and if you post a wanted and your location, someone will get back to you with a quote, youtube is full of helpful lessons too, tom cosm, point blank, dubspot are all worth a browse on there.

Have fun