Tried to pull a fast one, or not?

johngalway

Just wondering if my reaction to this is fair or not.

I had the habit of leaving my 99 Mazda 323 into a garage before the NCT test (I know). I told them of some problems I knew of and they kept the car for over two days.

I got a phone call from the owner late on a Friday evening. Bad news, car won't pass without a lot of work. The owner mentioned the figure of €800-€900, plus welding (rust!) would be extra.

I had a think about it and collected the car after the weekend, mind made up to put the car through the test. The owners son (mechanic, one of a few there) put the car up on the lift, brought me through a list of things which I knew were/would be in need of replacement. Also showed me the rust. Fair enough. He mentioned a figure of €1,200 - €1,300 to get the car repaired.

Off home I went, a little :eek:

Met the sisters boyfriend and we went through the list of repairs. He's not a mechanic but is fairly handy and reckoned all the work wouldn't get as far as €500.

So, I put the car through the NCT and got my lovely two page list of orange marks. I scanned and emailed the first garage the report for a quote.

I also brought the car and report to a more local garage, one man show, that the sisters boyfriend recommended. Car up on lift again, went through the report. Can't see it being much more than €450.

By then I was a little mad.

A few days later I got a message on my phone from the first garage (wife of owner/secretary) that they had done the quote and would try to keep the bill under €500.

Then I was livid.

They also sell cars.

Now my gripe is this. They spotted all the work needed doing by the NCT apart from a couple of very minor €10 jobs, before the test. They had the car for over two days and still gave me figures of €800-€900 + €welding, and €1,200 - €1,300.

Both the local mechanic and the sisters boyfriend had it priced under or around €500.

I do realise these are quotes and an experienced guess. But I feel the first garage was making an attempt to scare me into buying an other car, from them. I bought the car there, my sister bought a car there, and my Dad has bought a car there.

Because of the difference in initial prices, if you take best case scenario the price came down -€300, and worst cast -€800 in less than one week, they've lost all our business now. I haven't and won't return the call from them and wouldn't as much as buy a container of oil off them now.

Seems to me that they were trying to shaft me.

I haven't mentioned any names and don't intend to, but I can only imagine there are a lot of people out there getting right royally screwed by certain garages.

reptile man

allways shop around
bought my car for nct 2 wks ago and passed first time . all i did to it was focus the lights and that only cost 10 euro in a one man gagage even though it costs 39 euro in the main dealer .i allways go to the one man garage before the main dealers .

-Chris-

I'm not sure if I'd read too much into it.

The first time you were in they were being conservative and trying to repair everything. Maybe they honestly thought it would fail for all those things, maybe they were chancing their arms. The reality is that all the work needs doing (presumably).

Now you have an NCT report and you're asking for a very specific list of things to be fixed. Every repairer you're showing the list to is quoting you in or around the €500 mark.

Did they actually try and sell you a car?
Was anything in the original quote they gave you not picked up by the NCT - i.e. is ther anything they were quoting for that nobody is now quoting for?

johngalway

johngalway wrote: »

Now my gripe is this. They spotted all the work needed doing by the NCT apart from a couple of very minor €10 jobs, before the test.

There was nothing originally different pre-NCT which would make up €300, much less €800. There was one job which the NCT didn't pick up, which would cost maybe €150 tops.

Even at that, the cost now is well below what they originally told me. It'd still come in at €650, compared to €800 - €900 + welding, or €1,200 - €1,300.

I am suspicious as these are trained people, it's not a dealer garage, and they had my car for over two days and were still that far out. My belief is by giving high figures off the bat I'd throw in the towel and say I would have to look for another car.

I'd struggle to call it conservative tbh.

mickdw

Forget about whether they were trying to screw you or not, you did the right thing in the end by taking car for NCT and then fixing whatever is required.
Even if you were dealing with the most honest garage in the world, they will be inclined to repair borderline items as they wont want you coming back with a fail after doing the repairs they recommended.
In this case Id be pretty sure they were chancing their arm on the price. They hoped to either sell you a car or get the inflated repair cost from you.
ALWAYS run the car through without spending cash on it.

Loads of cars pass the NCT needing shocks, if they are equallyish shagged they pass, car still needs shocks though. Try explaining that to a customer who know sfa about cars if you are a mechanic.

Gumbo

it also looks to me that you are comparing 3 different quotes for the same work :

1. Large dealer who sell cars and has a team of staff.
2. a one man operartion.
3. friend of family (nixer).

due to all the different operating costs, insurance costs, rents etc etc etc, of course the 3 quotes will vary wildly and of course the large/main dealer will be more expensive.

i may have picked the op up wrong so apolagies if im incorrect.

johngalway

mickdw wrote: »

ALWAYS run the car through without spending cash on it.

Agree with that, my own fault for falling into a bad habit

RoverJames wrote: »

Loads of cars pass the NCT needing shocks, if they are equallyish shagged they pass, car still needs shocks though. Try explaining that to a customer who know sfa about cars if you are a mechanic.

That's not the issue though James. The only out of the ordinary issue was the rust underneath.

The other items were drop links, a ball joint, bushings, one light bulb and some pedal rubbers.

The issue is that the first garage brought me around under the car and showed me all this. That's fine, I've seen all those parts go before because of my driving and our wonderful roads, no problem at all on that score

The one man garage also lifted the car, checked the same parts.

The difference lies in the vast difference in € from the first garage pre NCT test for pretty much the same list of work that came out on the NCT report.

I'm capable of taking in things which are explained to me yanno The bushing rubbers were perished. The drop links moved, the ball joint went clunkity clunk. But, the first garage wanted considerably more money from me pre NCT test than after it, for pretty much the same work.

I smells a rat in that aspect of it.

johngalway

kceire wrote: »

it also looks to me that you are comparing 3 different quotes for the same work :

1. Large dealer who sell cars and has a team of staff.
2. a one man operartion.
3. friend of family (nixer).

due to all the different operating costs, insurance costs, rents etc etc etc, of course the 3 quotes will vary wildly and of course the large/main dealer will be more expensive.

i may have picked the op up wrong so apolagies if im incorrect.

Kinda incorrect there, I think.

The first garage is family run, sells second hand cars.

The second one man garage is just that.

My sisters boyfriend wasn't looking for or offered the work, we just went through the parts and as he's into his cars he had what turned out to be a fairly hammer on the head of the nail idea.

The issue is, that I two different figures from the family run garage pre NCT, and one quote after it from them, the quote and the two estimates were miles apart in € terms. I don't see why this should be, for the same work, from the same garage.

Reloc8

If the quote given before the NCT and the quote given afterwards were both genuinely for the same work to be carried out to the same standard then this was well short of a straight forward honest way to do business.

johngalway

Reloc8 wrote: »

If the quote given before the NCT and the quote given afterwards were both genuinely for the same work to be carried out to the same standard then this was well short of a straight forward honest way to do business.

Yep, that's my point

Same garage, pretty much the same work.

Pre NCT quotes

From owner €800 - €900 for repairs plus extra € for welding
From owners son all inc, €1,200 - €1,300

After NCT quote
From owners wife/secretary under €500

Same garage, pretty much same work.

The NCT did not highlight one thing the garage did. But, that would come to no more than €150 tops.

Does the now under €500 include the welding?

Did the pre NCT €800 include a service, head light alignment, emissions check etc? For the €800 they may well have been checking x and y whatever which now they won't be doing as the NCT is done. A 2 page fail list off the NCT is fairly hefty btw.

A one man show independent quote for €500 and a larger dealer doing the same for €800 isn't out of the way, also there is the €150 tops job you speak of too. There are 4 indy garage within walking distance of where I am typing this babbling, I reckon a full service on the ZT and do all that needs to be done for an NCT request would yield at least €100 variation and that's presuming there is not much wrong with it

johngalway

RoverJames wrote: »

Does the now under €500 include the welding?

Did the pre NCT €800 include a service, head light alignment, emissions check etc? For the €800 they may well have been checking x and y whatever which now they won't be doing as the NCT is done. A 2 page fail list off the NCT is fairly hefty btw.

A one man show independent quote for €500 and a larger dealer doing the same for €800 isn't out of the way, also there is the €150 tops job you speak of too. There are 4 indy garage within walking distance of where I am typing this babbling, I reckon a full service on the ZT and do all that needs to be done for an NCT request would yield at least €100 variation and that's presuming there is not much wrong with it

The sub €500 quote includes the whole shebang to pass the NCT James.

No service, yes headlight alignment, not sure on emissions check pre NCT.

I specifically asked them to only do the necessary to pass the test, didn't want bells & whistles (couldn't afford them!).

It's an old car, but the engine runs great, have had the car since Dec 03 and it's not once let me down.

We walked around and under the car and went through the issues I knew about, and the issues they found. So there's little wriggle room for including XY or Z to be honest.

johngalway

johngalway wrote: »

The sub €500 quote includes the whole shebang to pass the NCT James.

is welding required to pass the NCT?

johngalway

johngalway wrote: »

We walked around and under the car and went through the issues I knew about, and the issues they found. So there's little wriggle room for including XY or Z to be honest.

It seems simple to me, compare what they reckoned needed to be done and what the car failed on, what the car failed on is now the €500 quote.

couldntthink

As someone in the trade I reckon you were getting a bit of a shafting, based on what you've said. As a regular customer from a family of regular customers they probably thought you'd take the bait and fork out. Mechanics will always over quote a bit (I do anyway) so that when the owner gets a bill thats a bit cheaper they're happy. It also gives you some lee way in case something goes wrong and you need more than you originally quoted for.

However I would go back and get an explanation. Surely they wouldn't have slipped up on something like this. Maybe the second person you spoke to didn't quote you on the same work, I'm not being sexist but I'm sure the secretary doesn't know the work involved as well as the mechanics. Maybe the original quote was based on genuine parts. I think you're jumping to conclusions without getting a straight answer from the owner first.

Also, I know you're sister's boyfriend was right this time. But it gets very frustrating when people come to a garage with ideas in their heads that they got from a friend or someone in the pub. Parts for cars that serve the same basic function can be hugely varied in price and in the amount of labour to fit them. I know this happens because most people dont trust mechanics, and this is indeed due to the fact that there are a few cowboys out there. It is a trade where it is very easy to shaft people.

If someone brings me a car for a pre NCT check I tell them we'll fix the very obvious faults first then send it for the test. There's no point in fixing 20 things that "might" fail instead of fixing the five things it does fail on.

Nissan doctor

Did you consider that perhaps when they found so many things wrong with the car, and maybe gave a rough quote that they were letting you know that the car may not be worth spending the money on trying to nct.

Then, when you came to them wanting to go ahead, they did the job as cheap as they could for you seeing as how you and your family are regular customers?

johngalway

RoverJames wrote: »

is welding required to pass the NCT?

Yes, in this case.

RoverJames wrote: »

It seems simple to me, compare what they reckoned needed to be done and what the car failed on, what the car failed on is now the €500 quote.

The NCT report, and the pre NCT assessment by the garage were very similar.

The pre NCT cost from the garage to me was €800-€900 + extra € for the welding from the owner. From the owners son €1,200-1,300.

After the NCT, the report was what they said it would be, minus a job that would cost max €150, and add in one or two €10 jobs. OK.

Now, the problem comes, in less than one week, the cost of bringing my car to a state where it would pass NCT went from

€800-€900 + € welding / €1,200 - €1,300

to

Under €500.

In a few days.

Same garage, pretty much the same work. I'm not good at math, but it just doesn't add up whatever way ya turn it.

couldntthink

couldntthink wrote: »

However I would go back and get an explanation.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Solnskaya

Main dealer labour rates run from €45(low) to €190, (highish). Its not gouging, its costs. Lots of €190 an hour lads have gone bust because it was just not enough to cover their costs. I'm not a mechanic, but I get this "rip off" arguement a lot. Differnt shops have different costs. Again, there is a transaction involved. One man requests a price, another offers a price. It is your perogative to accept or reject that price. If you can get the SAME work done at a lesser cost, well and good, go cheaper, why whinge?? You asked for a quote and got one. If you think it was too high, say thanks, but no thanks and go elsewhere. Its just a business transaction, if you went to some shops, with their cost structure, they would have quoted €3500 for the same job, thats not a rip off, its just a quote-if you don't like it, shop around. Ask for a price, recieve a price. Don't like it? - say thanks and move on.

-Chris-

Solnskaya wrote: »

Main dealer labour rates run from €45(low) to €190, (highish).

Who charges €190 an hour???

angelfire9

reptile man wrote: »

allways shop around
bought my car for nct 2 wks ago and passed first time . all i did to it was focus the lights and that only cost 10 euro in a one man gagage even though it costs 39 euro in the main dealer .i allways go to the one man garage before the main dealers .

You paid to get your lights focused? :eek:
Our Ford Main dealer did that for me for free before my NCT
They have also on previous occassions fitted bulbs and done a few small bits n bobs free of charge (then again I get my car serviced there every year so they know me)

Wolverine_1999

Yes they are trying to shaft you - but a dealer by the definition of the word, is a dealer.

angelfire9

angelfire9 wrote: »

You paid to get your lights focused? :eek:
Our Ford Main dealer did that for me for free before my NCT
They have also on previous occassions fitted bulbs and done a few small bits n bobs free of charge (then again I get my car serviced there every year so they know me)

The cost for all those "free" jobs is being well covered
A tenner for light focussing is quite reasonable.

Kewreeuss

I don't want to pay €30 to get my lights refocussed.
Is it that price because they use a machine?
Can I do it myself on those silver bands on the filling station wall?
How do I do it? what distance should I be from the wall?
Do I have to do it when it's dark?
Thanks
p.s. I failed nct because the dipped beam was off because it wasn't sitting properly in the socket.
I took it out and put it back in again, but I'm not sure if that will solve the problem.

BeardyGit

John, you really need to go speak with them in a non-confrontational way and ask them to explain it to you to be fair.

You've now given them a specific list of items you want done, as opposed to taking their advice on what's likely to need doing for the test, and what needs to be done in general.

Without actually talking to them you can't possibly know what their position was before and now after the test, but if they're any way decent they'll be able to explain it to you.

The other thing I'd point out is that the family run business are probably paying rates, employers taxes and VAT. The one man business certainly isn't, not at that kind of price.

It could in fact be the case that the original garage you've gone to are STILL charging more for the jobs that actually NEED doing, but without getting them to break it down and itemise it, you just don't know.

Solnskaya

-Chris- wrote: »

Who charges €190 an hour???

Labourrates.co.uk, and those rates are Sterling, same range applies here really, it depends where you go, and what you drive. I couldn't find the Irish version (lazy googling) but one Dublin friend drives a certain silver star badged motor and was complaining to me about €170 an hour he was charged.

tyretec

I took it out and put it back in again, but I'm not sure if that will solve the problem.

This does sort it 99% of the time